3 Autos - Concrete Removal from Paint :/

All right so, vinegar would be the least agressive method I suppose.

What if it isn't enough? The other acid cleaner I have is Meguiars Wheel Brightener, I am guessing this will be more effective than vinegar.
 
Calendyr said:
All right so, vinegar would be the least agressive method I suppose.

What if it isn't enough? The other acid cleaner I have is Meguiars Wheel Brightener, I am guessing this will be more effective than vinegar.
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yes, but WB is too strong for paint and trim in my opinion. backset is quite acidic too, but is also recommended for ready-mix trucks (i.e. painted surfaces)
 
What are you basing that on? WB is sprayed on wheel clear coat with no problem what so ever. Why would it be too strong for body paint?
 
Calendyr said:
What are you basing that on? WB is sprayed on wheel clear coat with no problem what so ever. Why would it be too strong for body paint?
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I disagree that ABF is sprayed on clear coated wheels with no problem; if the existing clear coat is not damaged in anyway then perhaps there are no problems. I'm basing it off of seeing how paint bubbles and delaminates when ABF and HF based wheel cleaners get in and behind a paint chip; also seeing what HF can do to metal, glass, fake chrome and plastics. If it gets behind a paint chip, it will eventually start to evaporate the water, concentrate the acid and etch or corrode the metal causing the paint to delaminate.

With, what is IMO, a safer option available I would not hesitate to get a gallon.

I do use ABF and HF, but only as a last resort and only after telling the client that the wheels are beyond a safe reconditioning; we can try acid, but this may result in a damaged finish. If they are happy with the current results we'll stop; if not, the wheels would need refinishing as-is, and may need refinishing after the acid anyway. In a similar vein, you can tell the client that a dedicated concrete remover was not adequate, if they are not happy with the result, you can try ABF, but it may result in damage to the finish.
 
tuscarora dave said:
Muriatic acid/water mixture works well to remove the concrete splatter, but as mentioned above it's not all that good for the paint if left to dwell for long periods of time. Any cleaner degreaser that uses caustic soda as an active ingredient (look at MSDS) such as "Purple Power" or "3D international Orange Degreaser" will neutralize any acidic residual left behind. I get the concrete splatter (sometimes pretty heavy) quite often on the wheelchair vans that I recon for resale. A gallon of muriatic acid is about $5 at your local hardware store. I start with a 1:5 dilution ratio, that is 1 part muriatic acid to 5 parts water which works well for light splatter. If the concrete is caked on pretty heavy I'll up the concentration as needed. I spray it on the concrete and use a soft horsehair parts cleaning brush to agitate the mixture and help in the dissolving process. Spray...agitate...spray...agitate etc. etc. This method doesn't scratch the paint all that much but usually some correction afterward is necessary.

The steps I take are as follows...

pre-spray vehicle with pressure washer to remove any light or loose concrete splatter.

working in one manageable sized area at a time, spray the muriatic acid/water mixture onto the effected area and allow to dwell for a minute or 2. (trust me when I say that this mixture will not boil the paint off of the vehicle..no need to be hysterical here..)

After a min. or 2 of dwell time, respray area with acid mixture and also wet your cleaning brush with acid mixture and begin brushing the concrete off of the section you're working on. The splatter typically brushes right off if it's not too heavy. If it doesn't brush right off...re-spray and re-brush.. repeat as many times as necessary.

After the removal is achieved.... pressure rinse the vehicle thoroughly being careful not to spray the acid mixture back onto yourself. Start rinsing from like 4 feet away to avoid spray back and work your way closer to the vehicle as the acid is being diluted by the rinse water. Acid doesn't rinse off that easily so really rinse it for a while.

After rinsing the vehicle, spray the vehicle down heavily with a 50/50 dilution of caustic cleaner/degreaser (I use a garden sprayer for this) ensuring that you are getting the degreaser down behind any trim pieces or cracks where the acid may have gone. You have now neutralized any residual acid that may have been present. Re-rinse the vehicle and proceed to your normal washing/claying/polishing/waxing
routine.

A few things to consider...

Safety first... this acid is nasty stuff... there will be smoke like vapor coming out of the acid container when you first open it up...ALWAYS wear gloves, safety goggles, and long sleeves when working with this stuff.

Don't take chances when decanting this stuff...ALWAYS have a funnel to work with during the diluting process...

DO NOT spray muriatic acid on raw/uncoated aluminum. It will etch it immediately!!! Avoid spraying on aluminum brake calipers and associated hardware. Cast iron will be unaffected.

NEVER perform the above procedures where a dog or other pets are likely to be lapping up your rinse water off of the ground.

NEVER perform the above procedures in windy conditions.

ALWAYS remember that acid doesn't rinse easily... They say flush with water for 15 minutes for a reason. You can't spray caustic degreaser in your eyes to neutralize acid so eye protection is a MUST!!! You can use caustic degreaser to neutralize acid spills on the ground or on your hands or wrists but the caustic itself will do a number on your skin so a sodium bicarbonate wash (baking soda/water) should be handy for any skin/acid neutralization needs.

Upon asking one of my most respected detailing mentors what processes work best..... he always asks me..."Do you want to know the most effective way or do you want to know the sissy way?" Trust me when I say that the above described methods are not the sissy way, and safety should be at the forefront of measures. It's been shown that muriatic acid spills on skin (not sufficiently rinsed/neutralized/rinsed) can cause severe skin burns upon waking up the next day. The sodium bicarbonate wash is not to be dismissed as trivial.

Hope this helps...TD
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We used this method on a black Silverado yesterday. There were flecks of concrete all over the hood and one fender. Back-Set was taking way too long to ship, and we decided with how insanely thorough the post describing it was, and reading several other blogs stating the same result, we went for it.

The result was fantastic.
 
Bates Detailing said:
Hey all - we have 3 scheduled jobs this week that include concrete removal from paint. I was going to try the vinegar/water method - but was curious if anyone here had any better ideas?!?!? Tomorrow includes a brand new black Caddy with lite cement splatter - the next 2 are on friday with heavy splatter. What will it take to get these safely removed?!?!? Also, will these spots require some heavy cutting due to scratching of the removal process? Any ideas would be appreciated - Thanks,

Anthony
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wheel acid and a pressure washer.
 
PiPUK said:
Concrete removal is tough. The problem is that 99% of soils you encounter will be acidic in nature, as a result the vast majority of cleaning products of cleaning products are alkaline. Cement/concrete is the opposite, it is quite strongly alkaline/basic in nature so normal cleaning products have little effect - you need an acid. Unfortunately, acids tend to be unfriendly to paint work.

Hydrochloric/Muriatic acid is often known as brick cleaner and is a cheap and extremely effective way of removing stains like this. However, this is one nasty acid and I would never consider it safe for use on paint.

Phosphoric acid is a whole lot safer and is often what you find in safe or mild acid based wheel cleaners. It will not be as effective but it will still be really very good. I might use this on paint if forced but, again, I wouldn't if I could avoid it.

You then have weaker acids like oxalic, acetic, lactic or citric acids. The latter two are pretty safe, they find application in things like chemical skin peels so I would probably have those as my go to acids here. Oxalic is used in cheap fallout removers but it should still be used with care. For example of use see this Toyota guide. Make careful note with regards to the baking soda step, this is important for the long term health of the paint, even if many in the UK are ignorant of that fact.

As a final suggestion, you could try the finishkare paint cleaning system. I don't know what acid is in this but it claims to be safer than oxalic and, more importantly, finishkare are expert enough to have included the important neutraliser.

Whatever you do, make sure you neutralise when done (baking powder or most APCs will do it). Although you are unlikely to see damage as soon as you apply, acidic residues can do harm at a level invisible to the eye and can manifest months or even years in the future. Whilst cheap and nasty valeters can ignore this and realise that damage will be impossible to be blamed on them, as detailers I am sure we will all agree that we should work to the highest standard.

All the best.
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acid won't harm paint,but will etch non cleared parts like a non cleared door jam or trunk or windshield.
 
Bates Detailing said:
Wow - everyone gave some great knowledge here thank you! I feel like I just took a class on acid :dblthumb2:. Thank you all for you help - the jobs have been postponed for a week so I will get a chance to play with these methods and I will keep you all informed on how it goes.
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for fast effective removal wheel acid from a detail vendor will do undiluted.wet surface spray acid let dwell for 1 minute you will see it fizzle then rinse with power washer and if your lucky very little correction needed.
 
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