A change of machine?

[DaveBateman]

Hi Mike/autogeekers I'm new on here, but I have a question....

I have been machine polishing for around 10 years, I have used and owned DAs in the past but ended up settling on just using the rotary as it just felt more purposeful and I could get the results I wanted, (I had older cars back then too with more paint defects that needed correcting and so I guess the rotary was better at leveling the paint) I got rid of the DA. I am an enthusiast not a professional, but consider myself more than competent enough. I don't buy into the whole rotary being the spitting monster thing that I often see posted on forums, it's just a machine and if you know how and have the skills you can achieve the results.

I do really enjoy refining and correcting the paintwork....

...the thing is I feel that machine, polishes and pads technology has moved on... So should I?

So the question is would I be better getting one of the new breed of machines? Do I replace the rotary (just use it for heavy compounding) or get a machine to compliment it?

I like the look of the Rupes Millie which is what got me thinking (pretty much replacing the rotary)....or would I be better with the long throw Ruped 21 mk11 as a compliment to rotary?

I see the Millie as less steps in the process to achieve the results? I have a black car so rotary always needs jewling step to get rid of holagrams.

Your thoughts/opinions would be appreciated. Even if it's you know how the rotary works get great results just stick with that. (& no I'm afraid I don't have the budget for all 3)

I know Mike you are a fan of systems....so one other question how do you see Quartz primers fitting in? For example say I refined the paint work with a Rupee system would I:
a) Do the finishing step with the Rupes, ultra fine and white pad, then do quartz primer (say car pro essence with the car pro pad)
B) skip the last rupes step and replace it with the car pro essence on the car pro pad?
C) something else / stop over thinking things

Thanks in advance for your reply!

 

[Rsurfer]

Welcome to the forum. If you have the skills to polish with a rotary on a black car..why change? I myself love to use a rotary, but can never finish down hologram free on a black car. Therefore I use a Rupes 15 for the last step.

 

[DaveBateman]

Welcome to the forum. If you have the skills to polish with a rotary on a black car..why change? I myself love to use a rotary, but can never finish down hologram free on a black car. Therefore I use a Rupes 15 for the last step.

The thing is I'm always slow to change.....Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's the best way....are the new machines, pads and polishes better?

I ride mountain bikes too as an analogy: Technology moves on. Each year they bring out new bikes, better suspension etc. I can still ride my bike down the same downhill but the newer bikes make me able to ride down more easily and faster, however each year the change is so small and not worth changing, but waiting a few years and the changes add up and it really is a leap forward.

Seeing pros who's day job is polishing paint, moving away from rotarys I was wondering if I should embrace new technology and do the same, has the technology moved on enough that I'd notice/appreciate a leap forward in the equipment?

 

[Rsurfer]

The thing is I'm always slow to change.....Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's the best way....are the new machines, pads and polishes better?

I ride mountain bikes too as an analogy: Technology moves on. Each year they bring out new bikes, better suspension etc. I can still ride my bike down the same downhill but the newer bikes make me able to ride down more easily and faster, however each year the change is so small and not worth changing, but waiting a few years and the changes add up and it really is a leap forward.

Seeing pros who's day job is polishing paint, moving away from rotarys I was wondering if I should embrace new technology and do the same, has the technology moved on enough that I'd notice/appreciate a leap forward in the equipment?

Like I mentioned earlier, the Rupes 15 Mark II will play well after compounding with a rotary. Or if the paint is in fair condition the Rupes is more than capable to do the job.

If on the other hand, you want a machine that can tackle some grunt work as well as doing some fine finishing, the Mille will suit you well.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi Mike/autogeekers I'm new on here, but I have a question....

I have been machine polishing for around 10 years, I have used and owned DAs in the past but ended up settling on just using the rotary as it just felt more purposeful and I could get the results I wanted, (I had older cars back then too with more paint defects that needed correcting and so I guess the rotary was better at leveling the paint) I got rid of the DA.

I'm a rotary guy too... it's how I started out. Rotary is great for heavy correction but a good orbital makes finishing out hologram-free --> bubba proof.

That said, I'm teaching a class on jeweling with a rotary at MTE this year.

I am an enthusiast not a professional, but consider myself more than competent enough. I don't buy into the whole rotary being the spitting monster thing that I often see posted on forums, it's just a machine and if you know how and have the skills you can achieve the results.

What I have experienced and what I say to others is,

It's not about you - it's about the paint

And by the above what I mean is some paints are more polishable than others. So some paints you can easily finish down on via rotary while others will be more bubba-proof or easier to finish out on flawless by simply switching to any modern orbital polisher.

I do really enjoy refining and correcting the paintwork....

Me to, it's how I got to where I'm at.

...the thing is I feel that machine, polishes and pads technology has moved on... So should I?

My personal opinion is,

I can do ANYTHING with a good rotary polisher and a simple 8mm free spinning orbital polisher. Anything. A good simple 8mm free spinning orbital polisher is the Griot's 6" Random Orbital Polisher. More power than the Porter Cable so my choice for simple 8mm free spinning orbital.

Here's an article I wrote last year and probably one of the articles I share the most out of the hundreds of articles I've written "online" since 1994


Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips

So the question is would I be better getting one of the new breed of machines? Do I replace the rotary (just use it for heavy compounding) or get a machine to compliment it?

I'd get one that compliments it.

I like the look of the Rupes Millie which is what got me thinking (pretty much replacing the rotary)....or would I be better with the long throw Ruped 21 mk11 as a compliment to rotary?

I see the Millie as less steps in the process to achieve the results? I have a black car so rotary always needs jewling step to get rid of holagrams.

Your thoughts/opinions would be appreciated. Even if it's you know how the rotary works get great results just stick with that. (& no I'm afraid I don't have the budget for all 3)

No tool will ever remove paint as fast as a rotary. I wouldn't get rid of mine. This is especially true if a person is going to wetsand a car. You need a rotary to remove sanding marks in the tight areas and along edges and raised body lines. Plus it's simply the fastest way to remove 100% of sanding marks. I also use rotary for oxidized gel-coat boats.


If you do not want to deal with what is called pad stalling, that's when the pad slows down or stops rotating when using a free spinning orbital like the above Griot's, a PC or the RUPES BigFoot 15, 21, Duetto, Min, or FLEX XFE 7-15, or Meguiar's MT300, etc, basically any NON gear-driven tool, then look to a gear driven tool. Of you options you have RUPES, FLEX or Makita, see my new article here,

Gear-Driven Orbital Polisher History by Mike Phillips


All of the tools shown in the above article are gear-driven and I'm teaching a class on this topic at MTE this year also.

I know Mike you are a fan of systems....so one other question how do you see Quartz primers fitting in? For example say I refined the paint work with a Rupee system would I:

a) Do the finishing step with the Rupes, ultra fine and white pad, then do quartz primer (say car pro essence with the car pro pad)
B) skip the last rupes step and replace it with the car pro essence on the car pro pad?
C) something else / stop over thinking things ��

Thanks in advance for your reply!

Out of the three options you listed, if it were me I would simply do a Test Spot. I would try option B and if I was getting flawless results using the CarPro Essence. If "yes" then I would go right to the coating. If not, then back to option A and then chemically strip and coat.

If you couldn't get the results you wanted via option B then using CarPro Essence after RUPES Diamond Ultra Fine polish isn't going to work either.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

You would love my 3-day class because you get to use ALL the tools and on cool cars.

After using all the tools you would 100% know which way to go.

Next class is coming up at the end of this month.

car detailing class, how to detail a car instructional class, mike phillips detailing class, best detailing classes for detailing

Training Cars for the September 2018 3-Day Boot Camp Class at Autogeek in Stuart, Florida



I'm also in Colorado next weekend teaching a class with Jason Rose.

RUPES Detailing Class with Jason Rose and Mike Phillips - September 14th & 15th at the BigFoot Detailing Academy in Colorado

After that we're in Chicago and then Atlanta...

October 19th & 20th at Dr. Beasley's in Chicago, Illinois

November 16th & 17th OnSiteShine.com in Atlanta, Georgia

 

[DaveBateman]

Mike, thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.
I'd love to come to one of your classes, but alas I'm the other side of the pond in the UK....but perhaps I could time a visit to my sister with you doing a workshop in Texas somewhere ��

I think having given it some thought and some reading...I'll look to get an orbital like the Griots 6" do you have any recommendations for a machine that's available in the UK? I can always use it for wet sanding too, if I go this route.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.

I'd love to come to one of your classes, but alas I'm the other side of the pond in the UK....but perhaps I could time a visit to my sister with you doing a workshop in Texas somewhere ��

We'll be in Texas next year, best way to stay up to speed is to let me put your e-mail address on the new newsletter we're starting. I'll be writing it and it will be focused on these things,

1. How-to articles
2. Showcase of products, tools or people
3. Tips and Techniques
4. Upcoming events

You missed us when Yancy and I brought our roadshow class to London for Waxstock 2 years ago. Great class, I was able to get 6 STREETRODS for this class.

Waxstock Detailing Class! - Show Car Detailing with Mike Phillips at Waxstock - Friday, July 22nd!

That was a KILLER CLASS!

I think having given it some thought and some reading...I'll look to get an orbital like the Griots 6" do you have any recommendations for a machine that's available in the UK? I can always use it for wet sanding too, if I go this route.

One of the variations of the DAS6 polishers.

 

[B5visser]

I'm a long time rotary guy and really like the 21mk2 and the flex XFE-7-150 to supplement it.

Many times, I'll reach for my 21 first as it knocks the defects out very quickly!

I have a Mille too, and while it is a very nice tool, I prefer the long throw options.