A question of claying and working backwards?

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fightnews

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Any of these synthetic clay mitts, towels, real clay bars ect marr the living heck out of your paint. Is this really worth doing when your car is in great shape. All it does is make your paint worse. Is this not working backwards?

I know it's very superficial and comes out easy but still. I've use the finest bars and sponges. They still cause a great deal of marring. Especially if u do it quick after the decon wash.

If your car is properly maintained is it really picking up enough contamination to justify doing this? Now you're polishing step is going to get you back to where you were instead of somewhere more refined.

Thoughts?
 
I find when I maintain my cars well, I get almost nothing off when I clay...so little that I wonder why I am bothering to do it. Now, last couple of years I've been pretty lax...I wouldn't be surprised if my clay results are different now...but I probably won't know that until spring.
 
Just depends on your vehicle and driving conditions. I sometimes find the lower rocker and fender well areas requiring a bit of claying or tar removal from time to time, the rest of my vehicle not so much.
 
MikeC78 said:
Just depends on your vehicle and driving conditions. I sometimes find the lower rocker and fender well areas requiring a bit of claying or tar removal from time to time, the rest of my vehicle not so much.
Click to expand...

Call me crazy, but I find that all vehicles have the least amount of contaminants below the belt line and absolutely no contaminants ever on the wheels.

Just a couple of days ago, I was doing a waterless wash for a friend of mine in order for him to slap a car cover on the car before it rained. The paint was heavily contaminated on the horizontal panels from sitting outside [its in the process of being restored and is prepped for paintjob]
Vertical panels you can feel a bit less contamination... But the moment you run your hand below the body line on the side of the car it’s absolutely smooth. This was a clear indication that contaminants mainly affected the top sides of vehicles, hence the term “fallout”.

I’ll stick to my guns. Lower portions of vehicles always have the least amount of contaminants and wheels have absolutely none. I challenge anyone to clay the face of their wheels after using a wheel cleaner and show contaminants on the claybar.
 
If you ever drive in places that use rock chip and tar, you'll see it much differently. I'm not saying my particular situation is the same as yours, and its mostly certainly dependent on many factor including your geographic location.
 
MikeC78 said:
If you ever drive in places that use rock chip and tar, you'll see it much differently. I'm not saying my particular situation is the same as yours, and its mostly certainly dependent on many factor including your geographic location.
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I will find tar down there. But as far as baggie test failing grit, it’s always noticeably less IME.
 
Eldorado2k said:
Call me crazy, but I find that all vehicles have the least amount of contaminants below the belt line and absolutely no contaminants ever on the wheels.
Click to expand...
In my experience the most contaminated areas of most cars are a feet long area right behind the wheel wells/fenders under the belt line, the hood and the top/roof of the car. Horizontal surfaces generally get more contaminated than vertical ones (and that's because most of the surface below the belt line is usually not that much contaminated), because solved or floating particles settle easier on them, and also because any and all protection (and also the clear coat) gets degraded faster on horizontal surfaces. The reason for the latter being is that rain drops and the incident rays of the sunlight reach them in a sharper angle and in a larger amount, than the vertical surfaces.

Wheels do not get really contaminated, because their surfaces are vertically aligned, the fender and the tire (which extends over the actual rim) prevents most - if not all - of the stuff hitting them head-on. And also because they're essentially constantly spinning, which in turn means that anything that gets them on will most likely get slung off immediately or shortly by the centrifugal and centripetal forces (with the only exception being probably the surface of the wheel cap).
 
My NanoSkin used to marr a lot too but once I stopped using ONR as lube and started using Glide things got so much better. I should have followed manufacture’s recommendation and would have had a better time with it from the beginning.
 
itsgn said:
Wheels do not get really contaminated, because their surfaces are vertically aligned, the fender and the tire (which extends over the actual rim) prevents most - if not all - of the stuff hitting them head-on. And also because they're essentially constantly spinning, which in turn means that anything that gets them on will most likely get slung off immediately or shortly by the centrifugal and centripetal forces (with the only exception being probably the surface of the wheel cap).
Click to expand...

Tell that to Mercedes and BMW owners.
 
Eldorado2k said:
Call me crazy, but I find that all vehicles have the least amount of contaminants below the belt line and absolutely no contaminants ever on the wheels.

Just a couple of days ago, I was doing a waterless wash for a friend of mine in order for him to slap a car cover on the car before it rained. The paint was heavily contaminated on the horizontal panels from sitting outside [its in the process of being restored and is prepped for paintjob]
Vertical panels you can feel a bit less contamination... But the moment you run your hand below the body line on the side of the car it’s absolutely smooth. This was a clear indication that contaminants mainly affected the top sides of vehicles, hence the term “fallout”.

I’ll stick to my guns. Lower portions of vehicles always have the least amount of contaminants and wheels have absolutely none. I challenge anyone to clay the face of their wheels after using a wheel cleaner and show contaminants on the claybar.
Click to expand...

You ever drive a Caddy through a snow bank (end of the driveway), and then onto dirty salted roads?

I'm telling you, Eldo.... That crap does some serious clinging to the lower parts and wheels. It sucks.

Let's switch locations for the winter, Ric. It's was a balmy 17 degrees here this morning. LOL

That said, in warmer temps, I can totally see your point about horizontal vs. vertical. Just makes sense.
 
fightnews said:
Any of these synthetic clay mitts, towels, real clay bars ect marr the living heck out of your paint. Is this really worth doing when your car is in great shape. All it does is make your paint worse. Is this not working backwards?

I know it's very superficial and comes out easy but still. I've use the finest bars and sponges. They still cause a great deal of marring. Especially if u do it quick after the decon wash.

If your car is properly maintained is it really picking up enough contamination to justify doing this? Now you're polishing step is going to get you back to where you were instead of somewhere more refined.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
•First of all:
-I always do ”The Baggie Test”: to
determine if I actually need to Clay
any of my vehicles at that given point
in time.


{Note:
•If I determine that Claying is necessary,
then, afterwards: I always perform, at the
very least, a Finishing Polish step—whether
there’s any sign of “Clay-marring”, or not.}


Bob
 
FUNX650 said:
•First of all:
-I always do ”The Baggie Test”: to
determine if I actually need to Clay
any of my vehicles at that given point
in time.


{Note:
•If I determine that Claying is necessary,
then, afterwards: I always perform, at the
very least, a Finishing Polish step—whether
there’s any sign of “Clay-marring”, or not.}


Bob
Click to expand...
Yes I usually do this but I had some time after a wash before I could get it in the garage so I just clayed the whole thing after washing while it was still wet.

Nobody is disputing the polishing step but like I said now you are polishing damaged paint instead of undamaged paint from claying. Would you not get a more refined result from your polishing step if you weren't correcting clay marring?

I used a fine grade nanoskin sponge with lots of n914 for lube. I made 2 gallons and went heavy on the lube and still got excessive marring. The paint was in good shape before the sponge marred the living heck out of it.

LSNAutoDetailing said:
Typically I never clay unless I'm prepared to do some form of correction after.
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Again nobody is disputing this. I've used a lot of clays and nanoskins and the gentlest way Ive found is using the fine grade poly clay on a dry car. But still I get marring on my car no matter what I use. A regular grade clay bar does a lot of damage.
 
fightnews said:
Would you not get a more refined result from your polishing step if you weren't correcting clay marring?
Click to expand...
In my experience the damage that clay baring is or might be causing (because it does not seem to do it always) is well below what a finishing polish can remove - somewhere at the level or just slightly beyond that of holograms, but definitely not swirl level defects. So, in that regard, it makes no difference, because polishing the paint will remove also any and all defects that have been caused by the clay baring process.

However, on the other side, if you wouldn't have clay bared the paint prior to polishing, the contaminants that they clay bar could have removed could very well interfere with the final polishing process itself, by getting caught up into the polishing compound, and cause similar marring to what a clay bar would have caused in the first place. Except of course now you couldn't correct that marring (or at least not without another blob of compound, and another set of passes over the paint), because it would be your polish that would keep reintroducing them into the paint.

So, that's why my answer on your question would be a sound "no", or a "on the contrary: you'd possibly get a worse finish if you wouldn't clay bar first". I personally would always clay bar a paint prior to polishing it whenever there's indication of contamination. And there always is, unless the paint has been polished and/or coated just a few days or weeks ago.
 
FUNX650 said:
•First of all:
-I always do ”The Baggie Test”: to
determine if I actually need to Clay
any of my vehicles at that given point
in time.
Click to expand...

fightnews said:
Yes I usually do this
but I had some time after a wash
before I could get it in the garage

so I just clayed the whole thing after
washing while it was still wet.
Click to expand...
•IMO:
-Just going ahead and Claying, without
first doing “The Baggie Test”, is the
source of your remorse.

-I’d, also, not be too happy because I not
only unnecessarily marred an already
near-perfect paint finish, but now the
paint needs to be repolished—there goes
some more precious CC down the drain.



Bob
 
What car do you have?
And is the clearcoat on the softer side?
Do you break in the clay alternatives on the glass first?

Have you tried the Dodo Juice Born Slippy concentrate? Which is one of the best clay lubes I know of. I use a clay not sold on AGO unfortuneally. But have Sonüs Ultra Fine Detailing Clay too. Which is a very gentle clay bar. If you have a lot of contaminants it can be to gentle. It's so gentle it claims not be remove your LSP. That I don't know of but it's very gentle compared to the regualar clay bars. It's also important to knead the clay bar to a fresh side and also not use it to much before you toss it. Also the clay alternatives is important to clean very often. And IMO the more thorough you are at useing good chemicals when you decon and also different chemicals desolves different kind of dirt. The less contaminants that the clay has to pick up the better.

Dodo Juice Born Slippy Clay Lubricant Concentrate, born slippy clay lube, detailing clay lubricant, clay lube concentrate

Sonus SFX Ultra-Fine Detailing Clay, clay bars, auto clay, paint cleaning bar
 
SWETM said:
What car do you have?
And is the clearcoat on the softer side?
Do you break in the clay alternatives on the glass first?

Have you tried the Dodo Juice Born Slippy concentrate? Which is one of the best clay lubes I know of. I use a clay not sold on AGO unfortuneally. But have Sonüs Ultra Fine Detailing Clay too. Which is a very gentle clay bar. If you have a lot of contaminants it can be to gentle. It's so gentle it claims not be remove your LSP. That I don't know of but it's very gentle compared to the regualar clay bars. It's also important to knead the clay bar to a fresh side and also not use it to much before you toss it. Also the clay alternatives is important to clean very often. And IMO the more thorough you are at useing good chemicals when you decon and also different chemicals desolves different kind of dirt. The less contaminants that the clay has to pick up the better.

Dodo Juice Born Slippy Clay Lubricant Concentrate, born slippy clay lube, detailing clay lubricant, clay lube concentrate

Sonus SFX Ultra-Fine Detailing Clay, clay bars, auto clay, paint cleaning bar
Click to expand...

I have the ultrafine sonus clay too it still causes marring. I was using glide for lube but the last couple times I used N914. I'm talking about marring that's only noticeable under very bright light. I do everything with ample lighting. Otherwise a lot of stuff is not noticable.
 
FUNX650 said:
•IMO:
-Just going ahead and Claying, without
first doing “The Baggie Test”, is the
source of your remorse.

-I’d, also, not be too happy because I not
only unnecessarily marred an already
near-perfect paint finish, but now the
paint needs to be repolished—there goes
some more precious CC down the drain.



Bob
Click to expand...

I was polishing anyway, I think I just need to be more gentle, I'm pretty strong so I tend to do most things with power that's not necessary. Especially if I'm not thinking about it.

Anyway I'm going to do a full 2 step correction after the winter is over. Probably use a medium compound like 2500 or griots correction creme. Also going to look into that polish that Mckees just downgraded to a medium.
 
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