"Acid baths" for ceramic coatings that have been on for 6 months plus???

[fightnews]

I've heard people talk about using different acids (I think?) to remove road film and contamination from ceramic coatings that have been daily driven for a while. I've heard people say they use Iron removers but is that the only think you can use?

What about stuff like ps21 total auto wash, polish angel ultrared, snow foam, clean slate, or even a paint cleaner that you rub on? How about the new actifoam stuff from sonax?

What do you guys think are the best products to use for this purpose?

 

[expdetailing]

Carpro's Reset Shampoo was made specifically for this purpose and it is ph neutral.

 

[Bruno Soares]

Carpro's Reset Shampoo was made specifically for this purpose and it is ph neutral.

I think Reset is not pH neutral, and it's not acid, it's slightly basic. If I remember correctly, it has a pH of 8.9. I'm pulling this from memory and not checking the SDS for it. That pH is totally fine for coatings but can reduce the life of sealants/waxes.

But you are right that it's a great soap for coatings. That's all I use on the paint now. It can be expensive for those doing washes in large volume but for the hobbyist I think it's not bad.

 

[Rsurfer]

I think Reset is not pH neutral, and it's not acid, it's slightly basic. If I remember correctly, it has a pH of 8.9. I'm pulling this from memory and not checking the SDS for it. That pH is totally fine for coatings but can reduce the life of sealants/waxes.

But you are right that it's a great soap for coatings. That's all I use on the paint now. It can be expensive for those doing washes in large volume but for the hobbyist I think it's not bad.

Haven't done the math, but 1.35 oz per 5 gallons is pretty economical.

 

[SWETM]

The acid baths are mostly for the mineral deposits and lime scale build up if you have those. Then of cause it going to be remove other dirt and contaminants. It's a little tricky to recommend products to the forum rules though. But you have most consumer coatings own decon products.

Take Carpro for an example. Reset car soap is just a car soap and it's awesome for being a car soap. But sometimes it's not enough and needs other chemical products to get off the contaminants that you may have gotten. And the proof or what you could say is that the water behavior has degraded already after 6-12 months on a cquarts coating. Also remember that if you have Carpro Gliss v1 at least this is not recommended to use TarX as it will removing some of the top coating and also the Reload. Reload is easy to just reapply but Gliss v1 can be a little harder to rescue. I don't know how Gliss v2 is with TarX unfortuneally.

If I where to be doing a decon wash on a Carpro coating. How I start depends on how clean the car is. And I also do a test spot with the chemical product where it has been able to accumulate the most if it has done it. I have always a PW and a blowdrier in my case a leafblower. Say it's 1 week since washed and generally not so dirty.

Prewash foam and PW clean rinsing it off and blowdry it. You could just spray on Carpro MultiX at 1:10 in the foamcannon bottle or a pump pressure spray bottle or a spray bottle with 1:10-1:20 depending on how dirty it is. If it's not foaming so good ad 1 part of Reset in the foamcannon bottle also.

TarX I do the test spot on a section behind any of the wheels. If I see it's starting to desolve tar spots it's a full application of this on the vertical panels. And if you have tree sap spots it's also applyied on the horisontall panels. This is fast reaction so apply only as you will be rinsing it off before it dries on you. Skip spraying it on the lights and glass and plastic trim and rubber. It's no problem if it's coming some on these parts but rinse these first if do. Make sure you rinse it off very thoroughly and blowdry.

IronX is next up. Why is IronX the second step? Because of the possible that the tar spots has covered the iron particals. And if you have iron particals they are easier to hold on to dirt and contaminants and especially tar and sap. But test spot on the same place as you did with TarX. If you have iron particals here or you have a bleeding anyways but not from spots. I apply it on the vertical panels if only iron particals. And if I get a bleeding reaction on the test spot on the hood or roof I do the whole car. Let the chemicals work long enough and just before it's dries on you. You rinse it off very thoroughly with with the PW and use the water pressure from the PW to clean with. Some also wash it off with the Reset car soap instead. I don't like this as iron particals can be hard to get out of the wash media you are useing. It's almost like use the wash media you are useing on the wheels and use it on the paint. If you still want to be washing it off I would use a wash mitt that gets degraded to wheels or toss it. The bleeding that's not from spots but more of a uniform bleeding on mostly horisontall panels is proberly industrial fallout.

Wash with Reset and dry.

The last step is to use the Carpro Spotless water spot remover. Have an eye on the water behavior and if it's coming back more than before. If you have still areas where you have a degraded water behavior. I test with Spotless on these parts and sometimes 2 applications can be needed to see a difference. If this takes back the hydrophobic cararictics then I do it on the whole paint and windows. It's harder to see how it works but from the water behavior.

Evaluate if you would be doing a Reload or Elixir or Hydro2 topping. Hopefully this decon is bringing your coating up in effectiveness on the water behavior and self cleaning ability. These decon washes gets less effective if you use a stronger topper regualary. So a month or 3-5 washes I would only wash with Reset and don't apply anything else. To get the toppers to degrade or fail before you do a thorough decon wash.

Is this too much? I don't think so as a coating is made to last a very long time. And this is very depending on where you live and where you drive and how much you are driving. Also the environment where you park the vehical has an impact on the contaminants.

And why test all this different products? It's cause different kind of chemicals desolves different kind of dirt and contaminants. Also it's hard to say what kind of contaminants you have that cloggs your coating. So test spot is what I do to see how it works on that kind of contaminants. It's also not a garanty that you have contaminants. But if you do this decon washes you know your coating is on top of it's behavior. If you have contaminants of one kind that is more of it. It can be a good option to use that chemical product more often to keep them on the lowerbuild up.

Almost every consumer coatings has their own decon products that you can use. Or use another brands decon products as they are made for doing the same thing.

 

[FUNX650]

Re: "Acid baths" for ceramic coatings...???

•“Acid Baths” are so
60s-era Psychedelic! ☮

-So...
Just Say No!

************************************

What about stuff like ps21 total auto wash...

IMO:
P21S TAW—diluted @~10:1—will
make an excellent road-film and
contaminants remover.


Bob

 

[fightnews]

Carpro's Reset Shampoo was made specifically for this purpose and it is ph neutral.

I don't think so. It was made to be a maintenance soap that leaves nothing behind to interfere with the coating. It's not going to remove heavy road film.

 

[Mike@ShineStruck]

Acid will eat iron contaminates like a fallout and also allot of the same Contaminates of what I claybar does.

They work well to reset hydrophobics and even prep for a coating job

I've always used CS-II Dewax

 

[Bruno Soares]

Haven't done the math, but 1.35 oz per 5 gallons is pretty economical.

Right but a pro might prefer something like Hyperwash for a better cost per wash. Since I only wash 2 cars Reset is great for me.

 

[expdetailing]

I think Reset is not pH neutral, and it's not acid, it's slightly basic. If I remember correctly, it has a pH of 8.9. I'm pulling this from memory and not checking the SDS for it. That pH is totally fine for coatings but can reduce the life of sealants/waxes.

But you are right that it's a great soap for coatings. That's all I use on the paint now. It can be expensive for those doing washes in large volume but for the hobbyist I think it's not bad.

"CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is formulated with intelligent pH surfactants that give Reset...

Benefits of CarPro Reset:
Intelligent pH Surfactants provide a strong cleaning and foaming action, whilst remaining mild and pH-Neutral (7) in use."

 

[expdetailing]

I don't think so. It was made to be a maintenance soap that leaves nothing behind to interfere with the coating. It's not going to remove heavy road film.

I think that all of this is kind of funny; a wash mitt should remove road film. Did we somehow convince ourselves the OP isn't going to touch his car while washing it? Honestly, I've only used it once, and don't remember what it was like using it and I only mentioned it because I have two full bottles of the stuff and just read-up on it recently. If you use it & like them, you can have them; just pm me.
"Gently removes road film, dirt, and grime from exterior surfaces

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is a specially formulated shampoo that is designed to gently release dirt and grime without damaging the underlying coating – ie: Cquartz or any other quartz-based nano coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is extremely concentrated; only an ounce of shampoo is required for an entire 5 gallon bucket of water! CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo creates mounds of thick suds that rinse cleanly off the vehicle.

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is formulated with intelligent pH surfactants that give Reset the cleaning ability of a alkaline-based detergent, without compromising the water beading or protection of the underlying coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo will not alter the water beading or sheeting characteristics of the underlying coating.

Benefits of CarPro Reset:
Developed for use with all CarPro Nanotechnology Sealants and Coatings including Reload, Hydro2, and CQuartz.* .
No gloss enhancers, No polymers, No wax inside.
Intelligent pH Surfactants provide a strong cleaning and foaming action, whilst remaining mild and pH-Neutral (7) in use."

 

[SWETM]

I think that all of this is kind of funny; a wash mitt should remove road film. Did we somehow convince ourselves the OP isn't going to touch his car while washing it? Honestly, I've only used Reset once, and don't remember what it was like using it and I only mentioned it because I have two full bottles of the stuff and just read-up on it recently.
From AutoGeek:
"Gently removes road film, dirt, and grime from exterior surfaces

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is a specially formulated shampoo that is designed to gently release dirt and grime without damaging the underlying coating – ie: Cquartz or any other quartz-based nano coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is extremely concentrated; only an ounce of shampoo is required for an entire 5 gallon bucket of water! CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo creates mounds of thick suds that rinse cleanly off the vehicle.

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is formulated with intelligent pH surfactants that give Reset the cleaning ability of a alkaline-based detergent, without compromising the water beading or protection of the underlying coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo will not alter the water beading or sheeting characteristics of the underlying coating.

Benefits of CarPro Reset:
Developed for use with all CarPro Nanotechnology Sealants and Coatings including Reload, Hydro2, and CQuartz.* .
No gloss enhancers, No polymers, No wax inside.
Intelligent pH Surfactants provide a strong cleaning and foaming action, whilst remaining mild and pH-Neutral (7) in use."

Yeah but the road film is not the purpose when doing a decon wash. And what I got out of it was that he did not have a big problem with any contaminants specific. Cause if you have a problem with 1 or more contaminants that I described how to remove. The use with any of the chemical products mentioned will be very much more effective if you aggitate them. So in my case it was more like doing maintance decon wash. The difference for me would be if I where to be aggitate with them it would have been washed first with Reset and a wash media.

In my environment you need to be useing a tar remover during the winter months more often and sometimes at every wash. Yeah it's that much of tar spots here during the winter months here in Sweden. Some would be able to get off when washing. But it's no fun at all to get tar in your wash media of choice. So the pretreatment with a tar remover and clean rinse it off with a PW is to prefer.

Here you have a tar remover working on one winter wash

Here you have how it looks on wash 1 month later.

So very much depending on the environment you live in and if you have any contaminants that is accumulate more than others. Also the iron partical build up is higher during the winter months. We also have a high content of lime in our waters in many places. So a coating even when deconed with the tar remover and iron remover still can be showing degrading on the water behavior. And when you use a water spot remover the water behavior comes back. This can be done by the use of an acidic prewash foam or with an acidic car soap that has come out in some places. Or just use oxalic acid diluted weakly and apply before the wash and this is the cheapest option. Acid also helps you desolve iron particals and industrial fallout so with some products the iron remover is not needed. But it's quite heavy dilution for the acid to be fast reaction as the bleeding iron removers is today.

I think it's a smart way to keep your coating behave at a high behavior with doing a decon wash every 6 months or so. Because sometimes I think that people claim their coating done. When it could actually just be clogged up so the water behavior is looking very degraded. So for some the coatings is going to be lasting longer for them. And the use of an iron remover as the only decon chemical. Is pretty unusefull if you have other contaminants than iron particals and industrial fallout. So that's why it's good to use a mix of different decon chemicals. And also use them before you get a heavy build up of something of them. That can degrade the coatings before it should be happening.

But hey this is just my opinion and with experience in the environment I live in. And this is just not coating based but happens on sealants and waxes too here.

 

[fightnews]

I think that all of this is kind of funny; a wash mitt should remove road film. Did we somehow convince ourselves the OP isn't going to touch his car while washing it? Honestly, I've only used it once, and don't remember what it was like using it and I only mentioned it because I have two full bottles of the stuff and just read-up on it recently. If you use it & like them, you can have them; just pm me.
"Gently removes road film, dirt, and grime from exterior surfaces

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is a specially formulated shampoo that is designed to gently release dirt and grime without damaging the underlying coating – ie: Cquartz or any other quartz-based nano coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is extremely concentrated; only an ounce of shampoo is required for an entire 5 gallon bucket of water! CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo creates mounds of thick suds that rinse cleanly off the vehicle.

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is formulated with intelligent pH surfactants that give Reset the cleaning ability of a alkaline-based detergent, without compromising the water beading or protection of the underlying coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo will not alter the water beading or sheeting characteristics of the underlying coating.

Benefits of CarPro Reset:
Developed for use with all CarPro Nanotechnology Sealants and Coatings including Reload, Hydro2, and CQuartz.* .
No gloss enhancers, No polymers, No wax inside.
Intelligent pH Surfactants provide a strong cleaning and foaming action, whilst remaining mild and pH-Neutral (7) in use."

Its normal for people to find things funny when they don't understand the topic and it goes against their own common sense. I think you should read mikes article about road film and what it is to get a better understanding of the topic.

It's obviously up to you but in short No, A wash mitt will not remove 6 months plus of road film and or contamination. Even if you wash it bi weekly the answer is still no.


This is the article I think you should read You will find it very informative.

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...ur-car-has-road-film.html?highlight=road+film

 

[fightnews]

I think that all of this is kind of funny; a wash mitt should remove road film. Did we somehow convince ourselves the OP isn't going to touch his car while washing it? Honestly, I've only used it once, and don't remember what it was like using it and I only mentioned it because I have two full bottles of the stuff and just read-up on it recently. If you use it & like them, you can have them; just pm me.
"Gently removes road film, dirt, and grime from exterior surfaces

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is a specially formulated shampoo that is designed to gently release dirt and grime without damaging the underlying coating – ie: Cquartz or any other quartz-based nano coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is extremely concentrated; only an ounce of shampoo is required for an entire 5 gallon bucket of water! CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo creates mounds of thick suds that rinse cleanly off the vehicle.

CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is formulated with intelligent pH surfactants that give Reset the cleaning ability of a alkaline-based detergent, without compromising the water beading or protection of the underlying coating. CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo will not alter the water beading or sheeting characteristics of the underlying coating.

Benefits of CarPro Reset:
Developed for use with all CarPro Nanotechnology Sealants and Coatings including Reload, Hydro2, and CQuartz.* .
No gloss enhancers, No polymers, No wax inside.
Intelligent pH Surfactants provide a strong cleaning and foaming action, whilst remaining mild and pH-Neutral (7) in use."

Just saw this sorry for the double reply but my analogy would be that Nugenix(if you've seen the commercials?) "says" their product if full of "man boosting" ingredients that will raise a mans testosterone but that doesn't make it so.

Marketing departments say a lot of things.

 

[Mgavin1985]

I go acid route depending what I have stocked either MDR or diluted meguiars wheel brighter my reasoning is the acid not only removes iron which is in the minority of the junk that is on a coating a majority of the stuff in my area is hard water minerals such calcium or iron the acid is a two birds one stone approach tacking them both out leaving on tar on the coating which I spot treat. Opti MDR is amazing at cleaning a coating.Ifyour like carpro use spotless

 

[Bruno Soares]

"CarPro Reset Intensive Car Shampoo is formulated with intelligent pH surfactants that give Reset...

Benefits of CarPro Reset:
Intelligent pH Surfactants provide a strong cleaning and foaming action, whilst remaining mild and pH-Neutral (7) in use."

I guess that description you found doesn’t match the SDS then. In there they indicate 8.5 to 9. I guess once diluted it reaches something closer to pH neutral but the product itself is not really neutral.

https://www.carcarefreaks.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Reset-MSDS.pdf

 

[fightnews]

I go acid route depending what I have stocked either MDR or diluted meguiars wheel brighter my reasoning is the acid not only removes iron which is in the minority of the junk that is on a coating a majority of the stuff in my area is hard water minerals such calcium or iron the acid is a two birds one stone approach tacking them both out leaving on tar on the coating which I spot treat. Opti MDR is amazing at cleaning a coating.Ifyour like carpro use spotless

I applied PA cosmic a few weeks ago. Everything went great until I applied the cosmic spritz at the recommended time. It left a hazy film under the sun lights. It was going away if I wiped it off fast enough. I just washed the car with reset and noticed that hazy film is still on the first panel I did before I fully noticed it.

Ive seen this before with other products. Sometimes it clears up, sometimes not. Any ideas on what might remove this? I tried a little panel wipe but I didn't want to go crazy on it because I was outside.

It seemed to help but IDK? Any ideas? I'll prob email polish angel and ask them whats going on. They will prob just blame me but whatever

 

[expdetailing]

I joined Autogeek more than a few years ago, but not too long ago. What I have learned, and I have a lot more to learn for sure, is that harsher chemicals clean faster, but have a huge downside of compromising the lifespan of the product it is cleaning. Personally, I wouldn't want to spray my car with an acid that's strong enough to dissolve iron, even if I was thoroughly prepared to immediately to dry the vehicle and rehydrate the plastics & rubber components touched by the acid bath.
As I pay more attention, I am becoming more willing to pay extra money for smarter cleaners that are not as harsh, but are similar in cleaning ability. Out of all of the products you have mentioned, I like the P21S Total Auto Wash. In its description, it seems to describe to be able to handle tough jobs. It might take two tries.
In Mike's article, he describes road film as something that can only come off through polishing. Now, I had a different idea in mind & was picturing something less staining in your OP. If it is true road film, and Mike says to polish, then where does that leave you? I don't see spraying your car in acid as something that will leave you happy, but it might.
Edit* I just remembered that Klasse AIO says you can add some of it to your wash bucket to boost your soap's cleaning power.

 

[SWETM]

I applied PA cosmic a few weeks ago. Everything went great until I applied the cosmic spritz at the recommended time. It left a hazy film under the sun lights. It was going away if I wiped it off fast enough. I just washed the car with reset and noticed that hazy film is still on the first panel I did before I fully noticed it.

Ive seen this before with other products. Sometimes it clears up, sometimes not. Any ideas on what might remove this? I tried a little panel wipe but I didn't want to go crazy on it because I was outside.

It seemed to help but IDK? Any ideas? I'll prob email polish angel and ask them whats going on. They will prob just blame me but whatever

How long did you let the Cosmic Spritz sit before wipe it off?

I'm not sure about the acid bath would fix this. If it's dried on Cosmic Spritz. Or is it that you think it was not clean enough before application of the Cosmic Spritz?

 

[fightnews]

I joined Autogeek more than a few years ago, but not too long ago. What I have learned, and I have a lot more to learn for sure, is that harsher chemicals clean faster, but have a huge downside of compromising the lifespan of the product it is cleaning. Personally, I wouldn't want to spray my car with an acid that's strong enough to dissolve iron, even if I was thoroughly prepared to immediately to dry the vehicle and rehydrate the plastics & rubber components touched by the acid bath.
As I pay more attention, I am becoming more willing to pay extra money for smarter cleaners that are not as harsh, but are similar in cleaning ability. Out of all of the products you have mentioned, I like the P21S Total Auto Wash. In its description, it seems to describe to be able to handle tough jobs. It might take two tries.
In Mike's article, he describes road film as something that can only come off through polishing. Now, I had a different idea in mind & was picturing something less staining in your OP. If it is true road film, and Mike says to polish, then where does that leave you? I don't see spraying your car in acid as something that will leave you happy, but it might.
Edit* I just remembered that Klasse AIO says you can add some of it to your wash bucket to boost your soap's cleaning power.

Iron removers are essential. I could see the orange rust spots on my black hood before I decontaminated it. I also saw them disappear. Have u never used an iron remover on your car?