Advice for Soft Black Paint

[ShaneK]

Disclaimer: not a professional. I have been prepping a friend’s 6 week old Black Camry for CQ 3.0 UK and having trouble getting the finish I want. It has only been washed by the dealership with what appears to have been the shop broom. Lots of straight line scratches. Correction went ok using GG Correcting cream, orange pads and older GG polishers. I expected some haze (and got it) so I finished first black pads and Menzerna 3500. Direct sun on the sides showed a sheen so I wiped with Car Pro eraser and it got worse. The Menzerna seemed hard to wipe off so I switched to a Sonax polish (3 cut/6 gloss). I still got some hazing so I started using diluted ONR to aid in wipe off and that helped. I have dedicated MF towels for touching paint. I tried plush and regular nap. Now for my questions:

1. Is there a favorite polish for soft black that finishes well and is easy to wipe off?

2. What tricks do you use to prevent the problem?

3. Would Car Pro Essence have prevented the hazing?

4. On soft black is it possible to get a 100% haze free finish? I’m sure my skill level doesn’t always allow me to match my expectations.

Just trying to to feed my habit without getting too stressed out! Thanks for any and all advice!

 

[dlc95]

Yikes!

Menzerna is what I usually go to with those paints.

I've never had it not work.

The new polish I have started using, Optimum Hyper Polish is said to finish well on softer paints. I haven't vetted it yet though.

But, maybe try a white Lake Country flat or ccs polishing pad if you have any on hand - with the Menzerna 3500.

 

[The Guz]

Disclaimer: not a professional. I have been prepping a friend’s 6 week old Black Camry for CQ 3.0 UK and having trouble getting the finish I want. It has only been washed by the dealership with what appears to have been the shop broom. Lots of straight line scratches. Correction went ok using GG Correcting cream, orange pads and older GG polishers. I expected some haze (and got it) so I finished first black pads and Menzerna 3500. Direct sun on the sides showed a sheen so I wiped with Car Pro eraser and it got worse. The Menzerna seemed hard to wipe off so I switched to a Sonax polish (3 cut/6 gloss). I still got some hazing so I started using diluted ONR to aid in wipe off and that helped. I have dedicated MF towels for touching paint. I tried plush and regular nap. Now for my questions:

1. Is there a favorite polish for soft black that finishes well and is easy to wipe off?

2. What tricks do you use to prevent the problem?

3. Would Car Pro Essence have prevented the hazing?

4. On soft black is it possible to get a 100% haze free finish? I’m sure my skill level doesn’t always allow me to match my expectations.

Just trying to to feed my habit without getting too stressed out! Thanks for any and all advice!

Finishing out soft paint is tricky. Menzerna polishes are on the oily side and I would not be using them before any coating.

What towels and what gsm towels are you using for the panel wipe?

In some cases a firmer pad finishes out better than a soft pad. So you could use perfect finish with a polishing pad and then with a plush towel do a panel wipe.

The other thing is this is where a primer polish like Essence is a life saver on soft paints. Still requires a panel wipe but not a heavy panel wipe.

I am also going to recommend to look into the Dr Beasley’s NSP 45. Requires no panel wipe prior to any coating.

Good luck.

 

[ShaneK]

Finishing out soft paint is tricky. Menzerna polishes are on the oily side and I would not be using them before any coating.

What towels and what gsm towels are you using for the panel wipe?

In some cases a firmer pad finishes out better than a soft pad. So you could use perfect finish with a polishing pad and then with a plush towel do a panel wipe.

The other thing is this is where a primer polish like Essence is a life saver on soft paints. Still requires a panel wipe but not a heavy panel wipe.

I am also going to recommend to look into the Dr Beasley’s NSP 45. Requires no panel wipe prior to any coating.

Good luck.

Most of my towels are Cobra polishing cloths. Not sure of the gsm. I also have several plush one sided MF towels that seemed to cause marring. I will look into Perfect finish and Dr. Beasley’s. Thanks for relies!

 

[ShaneK]

Yikes!

Menzerna is what I usually go to with those paints.

I've never had it not work.

The new polish I have started using, Optimum Hyper Polish is said to finish well on softer paints. I haven't vetted it yet though.

But, maybe try a white Lake Country flat or ccs polishing pad if you have any on hand - with the Menzerna 3500.

I do have both white Lake Country pads but didn’t try them. I did try a blue pad. It really seems like the wipe off is the problem. I did a black Infiniti last year that was about the same. Very frustrating! Thanks for the tip.

 

[Desertnate]

Soft paint is fun...no, not really....

Our Toyota isn't black, but it is a dark crimson and any hazing or defects are very noticeable.

I've had great success in removing defects with nothing but a white Lake Country pad (ThinPro and Flat) and a finishing polish. No need to use a medium grade polish or a compound as the paint is so soft it's easily corrected. I've used a few, but Optimum HyperPolish and Sonax 04/06 stand out as a couple which have worked well for me. Neither are very oily, so removal is easy and doesn't take many passes.

 

[fly07sti]

For me, Hyper Polish or Essence usually work very well. FWIW I like to use my GG6 or PC to finish on soft/finicky paints. Usually paired with Rupes yellow or Rupes white Mille pads (thin Rupes pads) I also try not to do more than 2 passes because it usually will result in micro marring.

 

[Desertnate]

Usually paired with Rupes yellow or Rupes white Mille pads (thin Rupes pads) I also try not to do more than 2 passes because it usually will result in micro marring.

So, Rupes yellow work OK on soft Aisian paint? I've been working on mixed German and Japanese cars in my family for some time, but recently got rid of the German car for one from Japan. I was a little worried my growing inventory of Rupes pads might be too aggressive for the soft paint.

 

[dlc95]

I do have both white Lake Country pads but didn’t try them. I did try a blue pad. It really seems like the wipe off is the problem. I did a black Infiniti last year that was about the same. Very frustrating! Thanks for the tip.

Ok, so tell me a bit about your process.

How are you "priming" the pad?
How often are you cleaning between sections?
How are you reloading the pad?
Which polisher are you using?
What speed?
How much pressure?
How many passes?

 

[ShaneK]

View attachment 74971View attachment 74972

Ok, so tell me a bit about your process.

How are you "priming" the pad?
How often are you cleaning between sections?
How are you reloading the pad?
Which polisher are you using?
What speed?
How much pressure?
How many passes?

I was using 4 or 5 drops of polish and starting adding a light spray of diluted ONR. I don’t have an air compressor to I try to clean the pads by wiping with a MF towel between panels and use the pads for two panels generally but sometimes go too long. I have 3” and 6” older GG polishers. On this car, I used light pressure, speed 3.5-4, and 3 slow passes followed by 1 faster pass.

I did do two additional very light passes with black pads and Sonax NP something. The car had so much dust that I had to wipe it down so I used 50/50 IPA/water instead of Eraser and applied very little pressure. I don’t know if I was seeing something left from polishing before, the extra polishing or two coats of CQ UK hid it but the car turned out really nice. I do think the Mezerna was difficult to wipe off and Eraser seemed to soften the paint.

I’m starting to get a rash when I see a black car drive by!

I just ordered Sonax Perfect Finish and will definitely try LC white pads on the next black car.

Thanks for every tip and reply!

 

[dlc95]

View attachment 74971View attachment 74972

I was using 4 or 5 drops of polish and starting adding a light spray of diluted ONR. I don’t have an air compressor to I try to clean the pads by wiping with a MF towel between panels and use the pads for two panels generally but sometimes go too long. I have 3” and 6” older GG polishers. On this car, I used light pressure, speed 3.5-4, and 3 slow passes followed by 1 faster pass.

I did do two additional very light passes with black pads and Sonax NP something. The car had so much dust that I had to wipe it down so I used 50/50 IPA/water instead of Eraser and applied very little pressure. I don’t know if I was seeing something left from polishing before, the extra polishing or two coats of CQ UK hid it but the car turned out really nice. I do think the Mezerna was difficult to wipe off and Eraser seemed to soften the paint.

I’m starting to get a rash when I see a black car drive by!

I just ordered Sonax Perfect Finish and will definitely try LC white pads on the next black car.

Thanks for every tip and reply!

Try cutting back on the amount of product applied to the pad.

Try something like four to start, and two to reload.

NP 03-06. I actually liked that more because it dusted LESS than Perfect Finish! But, whenever you're having dusting issues, consider using less product, maybe less passes? You'd have to experiment to see if it finishes out. If not, more passes may be required to fully break down the abrasives.

A couple things. Get an old medium stuff bristle tooth brush to knock off the residue from the pad. That combined with an ONR dampned microfiber can get the pad much cleaner then the microfiber towel alone. Be sure to occasionally clean the brush out as well. I usually dunk mine in the ONR bucket that I had washed the car with.

A few years ago I polished a car and as I went around it, I noticed the finish looking worse and worse, even with a fresh pad. I just so happened to run the brush over my pad next to one of my work lights, and saw the dust settling back into the froam the brush. The brush was recontaminating the pad! A quick cleaning of the brush remedied that. Keep in mind that I run the polisher as I brush the pads out.

I just got done playing with some Menzerna SF4000 (now called 3500) on my practice panel. With those more stubborn polishes, try soaking your wipe off towels in onr, wring them out really good, and try that to wipe off the residue from the panel. This is a safe way to expedite the removal, and helps for a more thorough removal. I was reloading with two small drops, but realistically I could have gotten away with one. I was also just doing two passes. One side to side, one up and down. This would have made wipe off much easier.

Very strange to hear of a Sonax or Menzerna polish not finishing out, but it can happen. Just yesterday I came across a video on youtube where the guy wasnt able to get Perfect Finish to finish haze free on what looked like a white Rupes pad. I also had that happen to my surprise with CarPro Reflect, and 3D ACA520, where on the right paint they've made it looking the clear was still wet. I ended up using 3D AAT502 to get the finish right.

Give that Perfect Finish a shot and tell us how it did. I bet it can get you where you need to be, even if you have to do a bit of tweaking to your procedure. The last thing you want is a cabinet full of polishes!

...... Or do you?

 

[BudgetPlan1]

B & S red UroCell pad perhaps?

What makes these pads different is that they're not only very soft, but they also have a good amount of firmness that allows decent pressure. Without the right amount of pressure, it's very difficult to get soft paint to finish down at the highest level, and you can't accomplish that with just any old "soft finishing pad".

When dealing with black cars in particular, finish polishing can be a bit of a nightmare. With the Buff & Shine Uro Cell Red Finishing Pads however, you can bring your finish to a much higher level with less frustration than other finishing pads. And when dealing with piano black finishes on B-pillars, we haven't found a better solution.

For best results, be sure to change your pads to a fresh one on a regular basis. We would use 2 of these pads for the hood, and most other areas of the car we would switch them out after every panel. Our best results with this pad has been when they are teamed with Sonax Perfect Finish.

 

[ShaneK]

B & S red UroCell pad perhaps?

Thanks for the tip on the red pads! I will pick a few up. I am guilty of using pads too long..

 

[ShaneK]

Try cutting back on the amount of product applied to the pad.

Try something like four to start, and two to reload.

NP 03-06. I actually liked that more because it dusted LESS than Perfect Finish! But, whenever you're having dusting issues, consider using less product, maybe less passes? You'd have to experiment to see if it finishes out. If not, more passes may be required to fully break down the abrasives.

A couple things. Get an old medium stuff bristle tooth brush to knock off the residue from the pad. That combined with an ONR dampned microfiber can get the pad much cleaner then the microfiber towel alone. Be sure to occasionally clean the brush out as well. I usually dunk mine in the ONR bucket that I had washed the car with.

A few years ago I polished a car and as I went around it, I noticed the finish looking worse and worse, even with a fresh pad. I just so happened to run the brush over my pad next to one of my work lights, and saw the dust settling back into the froam the brush. The brush was recontaminating the pad! A quick cleaning of the brush remedied that. Keep in mind that I run the polisher as I brush the pads out.

I just got done playing with some Menzerna SF4000 (now called 3500) on my practice panel. With those more stubborn polishes, try soaking your wipe off towels in onr, wring them out really good, and try that to wipe off the residue from the panel. This is a safe way to expedite the removal, and helps for a more thorough removal. I was reloading with two small drops, but realistically I could have gotten away with one. I was also just doing two passes. One side to side, one up and down. This would have made wipe off much easier.

Very strange to hear of a Sonax or Menzerna polish not finishing out, but it can happen. Just yesterday I came across a video on youtube where the guy wasnt able to get Perfect Finish to finish haze free on what looked like a white Rupes pad. I also had that happen to my surprise with CarPro Reflect, and 3D ACA520, where on the right paint they've made it looking the clear was still wet. I ended up using 3D AAT502 to get the finish right.

Give that Perfect Finish a shot and tell us how it did. I bet it can get you where you need to be, even if you have to do a bit of tweaking to your procedure. The last thing you want is a cabinet full of polishes!

...... Or do you?

Thanks for the advice! People who take the time to share their experience are what makes this forum valuable.

I never considered using damp towels for wipe off but that makes sense. Sounds like I have a black Forerunner coming next week so may be round two.

 

[opie2]

I can tell you for menzerna...atlest for 3500, it runs better on high speed and 400 runs better on lower speed.
Bacwards, i know. If you try to run menz 400 on higher speed it will dust, and you will cuss and maybe throw the bottle lol

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[dlc95]

I can tell you for menzerna...atlest for 3500, it runs better on high speed and 400 runs better on lower speed.
Bacwards, i know. If you try to run menz 400 on higher speed it will dust, and you will cuss and maybe throw the bottle lol

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I use both on speed 4.5 on the PC 7424.

But, but with 400, if I brush out the pad, and reload as needed, the dust is very minimal.

I learned this technique using the 3D Products, which "stretch" way more than most compounds and polishes.

When I've completed my section, and brushes out the pad, I'll set the pad on the next section, lift it away, and see how much moisture is still in the pad, and reload from there. Bear in mind that I'm usually using a non diminishing compound, or something like 400 whose abrasives start as clusters of SMAT abrasives, and break apart during the buffing cycle. Haven't really tried this with foam pads, with anything other than the 3D line, but the Menz and Megs worked great with the Uro-Fiber. It was wild to not have M105 dust on me. The cut and finish was just about a one step. The 400 left a bit of marring, but was easily cleaned up with SF4000 (3500) on yellow B&S pads.

This actually worked with M105 too. Two passes, no dust, great cut.

I hear ya on the dust though... SF4000 used to dust up on me, but shortening the cycle, and reducing the reload amount is helping mitigate dust.

 

[opie2]

I use both on speed 4.5 on the PC 7424.

Great tips, thank you!
I run 400 on speed 4 and 3500 on speed 6 on flex supa beast on force hydro pads.
I had 400 dust on me and then the product would gum up and kinda like peal ball the first time i used it.

Found an old article written by a fellow member(cant remember name) where he gave those tips that i mentioned to solve my dust/balling up problem.

Worked perfect after that.

I would actually like to get into trying out 3D lines if compounds/polishes. I do love menzerna but wiping off can be finicky (oily)sometimes

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[dlc95]

Great tips, thank you!
I run 400 on speed 4 and 3500 on speed 6 on flex supa beast on force hydro pads.
I had 400 dust on me and then the product would gum up and kinda like peal ball the first time i used it.

Found an old article written by a fellow member(cant remember name) where he gave those tips that i mentioned to solve my dust/balling up problem.

Worked perfect after that.

I would actually like to get into trying out 3D lines if compounds/polishes. I do love menzerna but wiping off can be finicky (oily)sometimes

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That was Mike @ Dedicated Perfection, I believe! Loved his posts. Those tips came right from Menzerna of I'm not mistaken.

On the Flex 3401 I rarely go over speed 4 for anything. But that's just me. I'm an advocate for individuals using products in the manner they're comfortable ot familiar with.

That "pilling" of 400, I rember it happening to me once while using with Lake Country Cyan Hydrotech pads. It happens with 2500 as well.

The 3D can be REALLY oily, especially if one uses a lot of product. When "stretched out", wipe off is a breeze. ONE or AAT502 is where I would recommend someone to start with the 3D line.

The CarPro polishes wiped off pretty easily. Jescar was like Menzerna. Sonax wiped off nicely. Meguiar's was pretty easy when it didn't cement itself to the paint (probably much fault) Optimum reminds me a bit of 3D.

Incidentally 3D and Optimum are my go to polishes now.

 

[opie2]

That was Mike @ Dedicated Perfection.

The 3D can be REALLY oily, especially if one uses a lot of product. When "stretched out", wipe off is a breeze. ONE or AAT502 is where I would recommend someone to start with the 3D line.

The CarPro polishes wiped off pretty easily. Jescar was like Menzerna. Sonax wiped off nicely. Meguiar's was pretty easy when it didn't cement itself to the paint (probably much fault) Optimum reminds me a bit of 3D.

Incidentally 3D and Optimum are my go to polishes now.

Thats him! Good write ups ive read from him.

And isnt 3D water based? Figured it wouldnt be oily then. Might be having a brain fart though lol

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[rover137]

I had great success polishing my car which has soft black paint with Scholl S30+ and an orange or black Lake Country SDO. The orange pad is similar to the Rupes yellow. I believe this polish is one of the best when it comes to soft paint. It is a little oily though. I usually wash the car after polishing anyway so that takes care of that.

As already mentioned in this thread, keep the pads clean and I found with soft paint less product works better. I got best results priming with 3-4 dots then reloading with 2.

Towels I use are TRC 365 edgeless.


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