am I going the right direction in pads?

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Full disclosure: I'm confident that I've got a good setup going. I know I'll be able to do most of what I want to do at least until I make a few bucks back on this investment and can purchase a 3" machine.

What I'm looking for in this thread is for those of you with more experience than me to have a look at my machine and product choices, and let me know what my current pad selection looks like, and if I'm leaving anything on the table by not consolidating and or focusing on certain pad lines. My goal with this setup is to be able to work on the majority of common paint finishes from soft to hard paints, any color, any condition with a simple pad and product switch. Thus, expanding my marketability and not quite falling into a niche...yet...


Machine: Meguiar's MT300
Backing Plates: Standard LC flexible 6" and 5"

Products: Meguiars - M105, M205, M7, M26; McKees - 360; Jescar - Machine Glaze, PowerLock

Pads: LC 6.5" CCS pads (yellow, orange, white, blue, black), LC 5.5" Flat pads (0.75" thick, orange and white), Megs 7" burgundy foam as well as one MF cutting and one MF finishing, and finally I have B&S 5.5" MF cutting and finishing pads.

(To qualify: I'm only using the 6.5" CCS blue and black pads for glaze/sealant/wax, and will be switching to 5.5" pads for all polishing/compounding work)

I realize that using the Megs pads is probably best with the Megs machine, but there seems to be more flexibility out there with other pad systems that might work best for what I'm after. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have a MT300, but no longer use it. I did try it with the B&S MF cutting pads, but it did not work well with them. I switched to the thinner Meg's MF disks and they worked fine. From that it appears this machine works best with thin pads, so Megs foam disks or something like LC 5.5" ThinPro pads would be my suggestion.

But try out what you have and let us know your results.
 
I tend to agree with mc2hill on the diameter size and thickness of pads used with free spinning DA's. I personally like 5 or 5.5" thin pro pads with my PC. The less mass you need to keep spinning the better especially when you load it up with product.

I also noticed your only heavy cut product is M105. That's ok if you use it and like it but I have found a few others I use more often. Menzerna HCC400 is the one i use the most and vary my pad choice a bit on certain paints. In addition to Menz, I like Meg's Ultimate Cut a little better than M105. the same can be said about M205 but that performs well for me in almost all situations.

Basically my point is that I like to have a bit of versatility depending on different paint systems I deal with. That's not really "keeping it simple" but offers more options for refining my test spots to see which yields the best results.

Just my thoughts, experience and opinions...
 
I do plan to get some menz 400, it does look like a very versatile product.

Good tip on the thin pros, I bought a couple flat pads but will look into those. Any benefit looking into b&s low pros or the megs thin foam discs?


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When I use the Porter Cable 7424xp, I prefer the Buff and Shine microfiber cutting pads for the really super heavy lifting.

When it comes to foam I always revert back to the standard Buff and Shine grip pads - green for cutting, blue for polishing, and red for sealant application. White and black get used with cleaner waxes.

A nice, basic, solid set of liquids is the Meguiar's Ultimate line. I still use, and enjoy it. It's been five or so years now using it. M100, M205, and M21 are my "higher performance" alternates in the Meguiar's line.

Probably my most versatile set of abrasives that I use with the PC is Menzerna FG400 heavy cut compound, PF2500 medium cut polish, and SF4000 fine cut polish. I like the option of having the medium cut polish for one step jobs. 2500 cuts really well, and finishes with beautiful gloss. I tend to use Menzerna in warmer climates, and on show cars/hot rods, when not using the Rupes system.
 
I can't speak to the B&S or Megs pads as I have no experience with them however I wouldn't hesitate to try them as long as they're thin...for me, that's the key, thin and 5" or 5 .5".
 
So a quick update, thanks all for your input.

I took on my first sort of correction job yesterday which was some parking lot damage on a dark metallic grey Acura ILX. It was an interesting experience and I'd like to share what I observed and see what you guys as experts think.


I started by assessing the damage. Perfectly straight line scratches, only one of which deep enough to slightly catch your nail. All on the plastic bumper vs. the metal quarter, some above and some below a body line.

Observation: paint is definitely soft, even if the clear isn't. Various other chips and impressions from stones on the front end, so didn't want to go too hard right away.


Started with some clay and Griot's paint prep spray to sterilize. Began with the 5" BP, 5.5" LC orange flat pad, and Megs 205. Spread the polish at lowest speed, worked it 2 or 3 section passes at moderate pressure and finishing lighter pressure, not terribly thrilled with the results. The 205 seemed to disappear and start dusting rather quickly, and while it knocked the scratches down some it didn't do what I had wanted. Ran another 2-3 section passes and it got better, but not quite there.

At this point I decided to switch to the 105 on the same pad, after a quick clean out spinning the pad and running a brush on it, squeezing excess product out. 2-3 section passes with the 105 and it actually finished out really nicely, essentially LSP ready. I noticed the 105 did the same as the 205, disappeared visually and dusted up even faster.

Area where the scratches were was smooth as glass, but the impressions were still there. Albeit you really had to look for them, but they were still there. A bit demoralizing given I thought I was giving them the business with the 105/orange combo and the results weren't super noticeable. My client (a friend) was more than satisfied with the results, but I had better expectations in my own head. I did have a couple fiber pads with me but at that point I didn't want to cut any further in that area and even moreso since he was happy with the results.

So I'm thinking that the base coat is soft, softer than the clear coat, and whenever this object hit the car and dragged, it essentially indented the surface more than it actually scratched it, and I was never going to be able to get those scratches out. What was interesting was the way the 105 and 205 seemed to act with the 5.5" flat pads. I only really noticed that I was putting any decent amount of heat with the 105/orange and some more pressure (working another scratch elsewhere on the car).

Obviously the general consensus is that the MT300 isn't the most powerful machine and so thinner pads are better, which I'll have to pick some up and work with them. But the other thing is I realized I'm not necessarily 100% certain what the deciding factor is in switching from foam to microfiber for more cut.

Beyond that, is the behavior I've noticed with 105 and 205 to be expected, just as part of how compounds work? I don't have as much experience with these products, and they seem to do well thus far that I've tried, but I want to make sure I'm doing things properly (i.e. is it doing what it's doing because I'm using too much product, not enough product, need to prime pad better etc.)?
 
The MT300 works best with the thin Meguiar's pads as they were designed to work together. The burgundy foam pad is a great cutting pad.

105 has a short working time and will dust. I would never recommend this as a starting compound for anyone. The learning curve can be frustrating. M100 and M101 are better and more enjoyable to use compared to 105 if you wish to stay in the Meguiar's line.

205 has never dusted for me so I can't comment on that. Heat, humidity and overall surrounding temperatures can make polishes act funny. Even the paint itself can be finicky.

Did you prime your pads with either product prior to polishing?

Check out these videos from Meguiar's


Using their ultimate line

 
I keep forgetting about the Megs pads. That really kind of is the idiot-proof way to go with the MT300 I suppose, and no real cost difference to the LC thin pros at that.

I did prime the pad before these operations, but maybe the conditions made it so I needed to reapply more frequently than I thought?

I recall reading something on here about 100 and 101. I do like the megs line and will keep them in the lineup but am thinking I'll probably end up with Menzerna 400 as my go-to.


Wasn't the difference between 100 and 101 that one was better for a rotary where the other was better for a DA?
 
jcat9 said:
Full disclosure: I'm confident that I've got a good setup going. I know I'll be able to do most of what I want to do at least until I make a few bucks back on this investment and can purchase a 3" machine.

What I'm looking for in this thread is for those of you with more experience than me to have a look at my machine and product choices, and let me know what my current pad selection looks like, and if I'm leaving anything on the table by not consolidating and or focusing on certain pad lines. My goal with this setup is to be able to work on the majority of common paint finishes from soft to hard paints, any color, any condition with a simple pad and product switch. Thus, expanding my marketability and not quite falling into a niche...yet...


Machine: Meguiar's MT300
Backing Plates: Standard LC flexible 6" and 5"

Products: Meguiars - M105, M205, M7, M26; McKees - 360; Jescar - Machine Glaze, PowerLock

Pads: LC 6.5" CCS pads (yellow, orange, white, blue, black), LC 5.5" Flat pads (0.75" thick, orange and white), Megs 7" burgundy foam as well as one MF cutting and one MF finishing, and finally I have B&S 5.5" MF cutting and finishing pads.

(To qualify: I'm only using the 6.5" CCS blue and black pads for glaze/sealant/wax, and will be switching to 5.5" pads for all polishing/compounding work)

I realize that using the Megs pads is probably best with the Megs machine, but there seems to be more flexibility out there with other pad systems that might work best for what I'm after. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Hello Sir. If you are in RI, I am located in Warwick and will be moving to Pawtucket soon so if you're able, we can get together via phone or in person and go over some things and compare notes/experience. Kudos to AG forums for having a space that allows folks from little Rhody to stumble into each other.

Personally, I stick only with my 5" and 3" backing plates. As of late, I almost exclusively use microfiber cutting pads and vary between different AIOs and compounds (Griots FCC and Finishing sealant, m105, m205, CG VSS line, HD Speed/Poxy).

I happen to love B&S pads for finishing. They have worked very well. I've experimented with more aggressive product and less aggressive pads and B&S just seems to do the job in all cases for me. I have heard that with the Megs line of polishers, their pads and products work really good in combination with each other. You might want to buy some MF pads and the correcting compound.
 
I'm kinda in the same boat as you..... looking at picking up some of the newer thinner 5.5" pads for my PC, but like you I'm not exactly sure which ones to get either....

You have the Meguiars foam pads, which can be purchased in 6 packs for $55 (come in 3 flavors; Cut, Polish, Finish)
There are the BOSS foam pads, also 6 packs for $55 (come in 5 flavors; MF Cut, Fast Correcting, Correcting, Perfecting, Finishing)
B&S Low Pro foam pads, which seems to only be sold individually at AG for $12.99 EA!!! (come in 4 flavors; Extreme Cutting, Cutting, Polishing, finishing)
LC Thin Pro foam pads, sold in 6 packs for $45, (come in 5 flavors; Extreme Cutting, Heavy Cutting, Polishing, Red Finishing, Black finishing)

Not sure what is up with the B&S Low Pro pads here at AG. They are available for much less elsewhere. Not sure why they aren't available in multi packs at AG currently.

As far as deciding between these thin pad offerings, the Meg's pads seem to be pretty straight forward, only coming in 3 flavors, but they are tied with the BOSS pads for being the most expensive option. I have no doubts that the Meg's pads are high quality, and they are machine washable, which is a plus. I've melted and collapsed my fair share of foam pads before due to too much heat, so an open center hole seems like a good idea to help reduce heat at the center of the pad. The Meg's pads and the LC Thin Pro's do not have a center hole, unlike the B&S Low Pros and the BOSS pads, which both do have a center hole. That leaves me leaning towards the B&S or the BOSS pads that have a center hole. The BOSS pads are 6 for $55, while the B&S Low Pro's can be found in 6 packs for $45 (not at AG though!)

So as it stands, I'm probably going to give the B&S Low Pro pads a shot unless someone can convince me to go with one of the other options.
 
2pennies....in PM if you prefer, do you do this for a living or weekend warrior like myself? I'm in Scituate, not terribly far from either of your locations.

I'm planning on getting a second, dedicated machine for 3" work, likely the GG 3" given the price point and I like the idea of not having to switch backing plates during the cutting phase. I do switch from the 5" plate to the 6" plate with 6.5" CCS pads for LSP type work (glaze, wax, sealant) to cover more surface area.

I like the Jescar line as well, seems that the compound is equivalent to the FG400, the finishing polish is about equivalent to SF3500 and then the machine glaze is SF3800, all about $5 cheaper per 32oz than the Menz counterpart (unless this little 'side hustle' really takes off, then I'll buy menzerna by the gallon...a great problem to have!)


Pad wise, I'm leaning the same way you are, mengelhardt. Probably toward the megs pads though, as it maps sort of nicely to the Jescar products I may start using. They also map well to the existing Megs stuff I've got, and can be complemented by Megs DA MF pads for extra cut, and the 6.5" CCS pads for product spreading.
 
jcat9 said:
Wasn't the difference between 100 and 101 that one was better for a rotary where the other was better for a DA?
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that too much product can also cause issues.

Hopefully dlc95 chimes in. He always provides good info on pads.

When I used to use my MT300 all I used was the Meguiar's thin foam pads and microfiber pads. They just worked well together.

To answer your question about 100 and 101, they can both be used on a DA. 101 will have slightly more cut. Both have longer working times compared to 105. They still dust but not as bad.

You always have the option of Ultimate Compound which is derived from 105.
 
I was wondering if I had too much product at play also. What kind of issues? I imagine reduced cut and increased heat/potential for marring?


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jcat9 said:
I was wondering if I had too much product at play also. What kind of issues? I imagine reduced cut and increased heat/potential for marring?


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Click to expand...

Absolutely. Sometimes too much product hyper-lubricates the surface, and the abrasives end up hydroplaning over the defects. Other times, additional liquid gives you additional abrasives.

I prefer to be more miserly with my liquids, and let the structure of the pad help cut the paint. I put enough on that I jave an even, thin film over the paint.
 
Yeah something I need to experiment with for sure. I did notice the 5.5" flat pads were virtually impossible to stall as compared to using a 6.5 ccs pad, so thinner discs will probably be even better


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jcat9 said:
2pennies....in PM if you prefer, do you do this for a living or weekend warrior like myself? I'm in Scituate, not terribly far from either of your locations.

I'm planning on getting a second, dedicated machine for 3" work, likely the GG 3" given the price point and I like the idea of not having to switch backing plates during the cutting phase. I do switch from the 5" plate to the 6" plate with 6.5" CCS pads for LSP type work (glaze, wax, sealant) to cover more surface area.

I like the Jescar line as well, seems that the compound is equivalent to the FG400, the finishing polish is about equivalent to SF3500 and then the machine glaze is SF3800, all about $5 cheaper per 32oz than the Menz counterpart (unless this little 'side hustle' really takes off, then I'll buy menzerna by the gallon...a great problem to have!)


Pad wise, I'm leaning the same way you are, mengelhardt. Probably toward the megs pads though, as it maps sort of nicely to the Jescar products I may start using. They also map well to the existing Megs stuff I've got, and can be complemented by Megs DA MF pads for extra cut, and the 6.5" CCS pads for product spreading.
Click to expand...


Weekend warrior mate! I do a couple jobs per weekend the last couple months, but If I could generate enough business to go full-time, I would. RI is a difficult market though. Scituate is not too far at all. I will PM you later today
 
jcat9 said:
Yeah something I need to experiment with for sure. I did notice the 5.5" flat pads were virtually impossible to stall as compared to using a 6.5 ccs pad, so thinner discs will probably be even better


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Click to expand...

I'm also wondering if there's really THAT much of a difference or any benefit to one line of foam over the other?


Meaning, you have the following:

Megs: Cut, Polish(refine), Finish

LC thinpro: Extreme Cutting, Heavy Cutting, Polishing, Red Finishing, Black finishing

Buff & Shine: Extreme Cutting, Cutting, Polishing, finishing


It seems to me having a couple different degrees of cutting pad to mix and match with different compound/polish depending on what the paint is telling you is a good idea. But it seems like having multiple finishing pads are adding excessive complexity.
 
IME Ultimate Compound and D300 are more user friendly than M100, especially on an 8mm DA. I've personally never achieved superior results with M100 unless I use it with microfiber pads on my G21.

I can't speak for M101, because I've never used it. But IIRC the label says it's best paired with foam pads on a rotary.
 
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