Any classis car buffs??

Hey Dave -

I don't post here often, but I do read every day. I own a consulting company called Provenance Motors. We assist collectors in assembling vintage car collections they can enjoy, which will also perform well for them as investments. We manage collections, conduct provenance investigations to ensure clients are buying "real" cars as opposed to clones, faked stories, etc, etc. So that's me...

On your Essex - the car is not terribly rare or valuable unless you can prove that it was a pace car in period. A pace car later in life of a vintage race or something of the sort won't really add value. If you can show through photos and/or documentation that your Essex paced a famous race in 1926 or 1927, the value could easily triple (or more) what a similar car would sell for.

That said, $5,000 for an original car in that condition (pace car or not) is a steal. Though you may be tempted to do a complete restoration, from what I can see that car is a prime candidate to be preserved as opposed to restored. There is a growing movement in the vintage car world to preserve cars wherever possible, and the selling prices of unrestored cars vs. restored cars is bearing that out. Dr. Frederick Simeone wrote a book several years ago entitled the Stewardship of Historically Important Automobiles, which really started the conversation about preservation vs. restoration and one of his points has always stuck with me. I'm paraphrasing now but: If you discovered a Michelangelo sculpture or a DaVinci painting and it was dirty and neglected, you wouldn't dare attempt a ground-up restoration on it because its originality, history, and thus value, would be lost forever. Dr Simeone argues that historic cars are no different.

I do work with Dr. Simeone and my favorite car in his collection is his unrestored Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe. It is the only remaining unrestored Daytona Coupe. As I look at that car, it is far from perfect, BUT I look at the small dents in the top of the door made by the palms of men who slammed it closed and I can't help but wonder - who put that dent there? Was it Carroll Shelby? Bob Bondurant? Craig Breedlove? Phil Spector? Phil Hill? Now, if we were to restore that car to perfection, those dents and its history - that enduring romance - would be forever lost. As a result of its originality, Dr Simeone's unrestored Daytona is estimated to be worth multiples of what the other five Daytonas would sell for should it ever come up for sale (likely $15-20 million).

If I were in your position, I would purchase the car, emphasizing to the current owner that you want every shred of documentation they have for it. Sift through whatever they give you with a finetooth comb to assemble its history. Track down and contact previous owners (probably their children/grandchildren at this point) in an attempt to assemble the car's complete story. These days, provenance can add as much value to an original car as a full restoration - but provenance costs a whole lot less to complete.

As for the car itself - It's a very simple car. Get it home and CAREFULLY get it into running/driving/stopping condition. Clean it up really well, trying as hard as humanly possible to not damage or replace anything. If a component needs to be replaced, use only true Essex parts (where the extra parts the owner allegedly has come in). Then, enjoy it, as is. Revel in its cosmetic defects as scars earned from a life well lived. Most good car shows, to include the Pebble Beach Councours and the Amelia Island Concours have preservation classes now and they've proven to be very fun and popular.

If you have questions or I can be of any help, just let me know.

Good Luck,

Chris
 
Quite honestly no, Dave. I'm a marine mechanic, but started in the early '80's working on small engines and refitting my Nova with a new engine (modern V8).

But, mechanics are a passion. If I can ever help you, please let me know.

I appreciate it. Everything I wrenched on growing up was late 60's early 70's. Put a Chevrolet 350 in a Pontiac GTO once, talk about a wiring nightmare lol everything is backwards in the Pontiac. Plus it had already had a Chevy 327 put in it and taken back out, so dealing with someone else's mess. The mechanic part I know my way around. Always hated wiring. I'm guessing there isn't more than 5 or 6 total lol. I'll find out this afternoon.
 
Hey Dave -

I don't post here often, but I do read every day. I own a consulting company called Provenance Motors. We assist collectors in assembling vintage car collections they can enjoy, which will also perform well for them as investments. We manage collections, conduct provenance investigations to ensure clients are buying "real" cars as opposed to clones, faked stories, etc, etc. So that's me...

On your Essex - the car is not terribly rare or valuable unless you can prove that it was a pace car in period. A pace car later in life of a vintage race or something of the sort won't really add value. If you can show through photos and/or documentation that your Essex paced a famous race in 1926 or 1927, the value could easily triple (or more) what a similar car would sell for.

That said, $5,000 for an original car in that condition (pace car or not) is a steal. Though you may be tempted to do a complete restoration, from what I can see that car is a prime candidate to be preserved as opposed to restored. There is a growing movement in the vintage car world to preserve cars wherever possible, and the selling prices of unrestored cars vs. restored cars is bearing that out. Dr. Frederick Simeone wrote a book several years ago entitled the Stewardship of Historically Important Automobiles, which really started the conversation about preservation vs. restoration and one of his points has always stuck with me. I'm paraphrasing now but: If you discovered a Michelangelo sculpture or a DaVinci painting and it was dirty and neglected, you wouldn't dare attempt a ground-up restoration on it because its originality, history, and thus value, would be lost forever. Dr Simeone argues that historic cars are no different.

I do work with Dr. Simeone and my favorite car in his collection is his unrestored Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe. It is the only remaining unrestored Daytona Coupe. As I look at that car, it is far from perfect, BUT I look at the small dents in the top of the door made by the palms of men who slammed it closed and I can't help but wonder - who put that dent there? Was it Carroll Shelby? Bob Bondurant? Craig Breedlove? Phil Spector? Phil Hill? Now, if we were to restore that car to perfection, those dents and its history - that enduring romance - would be forever lost. As a result of its originality, Dr Simeone's unrestored Daytona is estimated to be worth multiples of what the other five Daytonas would sell for should it ever come up for sale (likely $15-20 million).

If I were in your position, I would purchase the car, emphasizing to the current owner that you want every shred of documentation they have for it. Sift through whatever they give you with a finetooth comb to assemble its history. Track down and contact previous owners (probably their children/grandchildren at this point) in an attempt to assemble the car's complete story. These days, provenance can add as much value to an original car as a full restoration - but provenance costs a whole lot less to complete.

As for the car itself - It's a very simple car. Get it home and CAREFULLY get it into running/driving/stopping condition. Clean it up really well, trying as hard as humanly possible to not damage or replace anything. If a component needs to be replaced, use only true Essex parts (where the extra parts the owner allegedly has come in). Then, enjoy it, as is. Revel in its cosmetic defects as scars earned from a life well lived. Most good car shows, to include the Pebble Beach Councours and the Amelia Island Concours have preservation classes now and they've proven to be very fun and popular.

If you have questions or I can be of any help, just let me know.

Good Luck,

Chris

Thanks for the information Chris. It's great to hear from someone who knows. I thought it was at least a fair price. If I get this car I would appreciate your input greatly. I think after getting it the rest of the way unburied and a good thorough cleaning is going to give a much better idea of what I'm working with.
I do have one question, maybe you'll know maybe you won't. This car has some kind of cover on the top, I would assume leather?? When transporting it on a trailer they didn't cover it and the wind ripped it half way off. They removed it and unfortunately didn't keep it. My question is about the roof panel, along the one edge I saw above the drivers door it looks like the panel is tacked on there, no kind of finishing what so ever. Would they have left that seam like that because it was getting covered, or is there something else going on there??
 
Dave - Your Essex was built before anyone was doing full steel tops. The top for your car would've been a lightweight fabric, painted, varnished or treated to make it waterproof (when finished, it looks a lot like leather). It would have had binding around the edges to hide the tack strip. When you're ready, let me know. A good friend of mine is a Professor at McPherson College in Kansas. He teaches auto upholstery and is an excellent historian. He'll know exactly what fabric and binding you need as well as where to source it and how to prepare it.
 
Dave - Your Essex was built before anyone was doing full steel tops. The top for your car would've been a lightweight fabric, painted, varnished or treated to make it waterproof (when finished, it looks a lot like leather). It would have had binding around the edges to hide the tack strip. When you're ready, let me know. A good friend of mine is a Professor at McPherson College in Kansas. He teaches auto upholstery and is an excellent historian. He'll know exactly what fabric and binding you need as well as where to source it and how to prepare it.

Great, I was reading yesterday about Hudson/Essex being one of the first to build actual closed in cars. The Sedans became very popular for hauling moonshine. Some came with drapes used to block the view inside the back of the car.

I'm still going back and forth on this. The car currently has a steel panel over the roof. I guess that's something someone did after the fact. What I'm seeing over the door actually looks like a tack strip..with tacks in it. So the roof the way it is would be a negative thing. I'll have to see exactly what I was looking at. His wife said he had been saying it was a '26 1/2 for years but recently said it was a '27.
The timing for buying this thing couldn't be worse. On top of all the other factors the way my back has been feeling the last couple weeks it looks like the back surgery I'm trying to put off as long as possible might actually be fairly close.
Regardless of which way I decide I certainly appreciate the information. If I buy it I'm sure I will have more questions ��
 
Dave - Your Essex was built before anyone was doing full steel tops. The top for your car would've been a lightweight fabric, painted, varnished or treated to make it waterproof (when finished, it looks a lot like leather). It would have had binding around the edges to hide the tack strip. When you're ready, let me know. A good friend of mine is a Professor at McPherson College in Kansas. He teaches auto upholstery and is an excellent historian. He'll know exactly what fabric and binding you need as well as where to source it and how to prepare it.

Ok, after getting a better look that was the tack strip I was seeing. All the wood in the car looks good except the edges of the tack strips. What I was looking at was part of the old roof. Flat head 6,which I'm sure you knew. The car wasn't actually a pace car, it won a race. He said he thought it was the Kansas state fair, so not a big race. The original owner still had the checkered flag but passed away before the current owner could get it. The extra parts are Pistons, he said another block, I saw a head gasket, timing chain, looked like exhaust manifolds. He has a complete repair manual for the car which is a reproduction, but of course repair manuals of that era give you everything you need to know. Looking at that car I think I could probably take it completely apart and put it back together with very little help from the manual lol
 
Just let me know if you need anything as you go forward. Sorry to hear about your back. Believe me I understand, having had back issues for 26 years from being thrown out of a 2nd story window of an undisclosed location in a previous life...
 
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