Are Lake County CCS pads ok for the Flex 3401 or is there a better choice

[Oldschool1975]

Are Lake County CCS pads ok for the Flex 3401 or is there a better choice


Hello guys. I'm still relatively new to the whole correcting paint and started out with my PC and LC CCS pads as part of a kit about 2 1/2 years ago. I almost exclusively use Wolfgang products also. (WF groupie I swear!) I've since gotten better at this paint correcting with practice and now want to step up to the Flex 3401 to correct faster. My PCXP stopping on curves gets kind of annoying at times.

My question is about pads. I only have experience with the Lake County CCS pads. But in my researching on the Flex, I keep hearing about Hydro-tech and Hybrid Lake County pads. I've read that the Hybrid ones recommended for the Flex.....

1. Are the CCS pads good or just ok to use for the Flex?
2. Do the Hybrid pads just work that much better/faster than a CCS pad would?
3. Would a Hybrid pad be better on my PC than the CCS pads I currently use now?

I just bought a bunch of CCS pads and would like to know if I should return them for the Hybrids when I make the Flex leap.

I've research and seem to just being getting overwhelmed by all I have researched.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond,
Michael

 

[allenk4]

I use LC CCS 5 1/2" pads with good results.

I have not tried the hybrid pads.

 

[Evan.J]

IMO the Hybrid pads are the best pads with using the Flex. While you do have to purchase the LC interchangeable backing plate for the proper fit they work great. I have found that the 5" Pads make using the flex much more fun and easier than with the larger pads.

Anytime I use my Flex I have only used the hybrid pads. I highly recommend them to anyone with a Flex.

 

[allenk4]

I use LC CCS 5 1/2" pads with good results.

I have not tried the hybrid pads.

Forgot to mention that I did have the circumference of the standard FLEX 3401 backing plate sanded down to accommodate the 5 1/2" pads

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

1. Are the CCS pads good or just ok to use for the Flex?

They work great. I've used them on tons of car projects with no problems whatsoever...

Actually did the correction work on this using the Flex 3401 with 6.5" CCS Pads...

Used the orange pad with Uber Compound - (no picture)
Used the black pad with the Finishing Glaze - (see picture below)

Candy Apple 1955 Ford F100 with Black Label Diamond Paint Coating


I really needed to take a rotary buffer to the paint but I had the Flex 3401 already out and ready to use so I just did the best I could in the time I had...

Some pretty deep scratches...
I used an orange foam cutting pad first and that removed all the swirls, it didn't get out all the really deep scratches. Some were deep enough that it would probably be faster to machine sand them first using some #3000 followed by #5000 but on a TV set you really don't have time as a luxury. In this shot I'm re-polishing with a soft foam pad and Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish to max out the gloss and clarity.

Next I machine applied Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish using the Porter Cable 7424XP

Then hand applied Black Label Diamond Paint Coating...

A soft final wipe...

Came out okay...

2. Do the Hybrid pads just work that much better/faster than a CCS pad would?

For me it's the flat pad design and the pad formula. CCS are Open Cell and Hybrid are part open and part closed. (at least that's my understanding).

I use the term "Optimized" to describe how I think a tool is set up best for max effectiveness.

See this article and you'll see I set our forum member Eric up with a Flex 3401 with the Lake Country 4" backing plate so he could use 5" Hybrid Pads.

Rupes 21 & Flex 3401 Comparison + Detailer's Paint Coating

3. Would a Hybrid pad be better on my PC than the CCS pads I currently use now?

NO!

Remember these words when it comes to choosing pads for the Porter Cable 7424XP or any of the copies of this tool that started it all.

Thin is in...

Even have an article by that name...


Thin is in... New Lake Country Hydro-Tech Low Profile 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Foam Pads

I've been playing around with these new thin foam buffing pads and really like them. The thinness makes it a breeze for all DA Polishers to maintain rotation and oscillation when removing swirls, water spots, oxidation and scratches.

These will be a great pad for anyone still using a first generation PC or Meguiar's G100, see this article...

How to maximize the ability of the 1st Generation Porter Cable Dual Action Polishers


Here's a couple pictures I took to show the difference between the thickness of the new 7/8" pads and the 1 1/4" version of these pads.

Also, either the Cyan or Tangerine pads work great with our Indigo Bonnets for removing waxes that dry.

Indigo on Hydro

On Autogeek.net
Lake Country Hydro-Tech Low Profile 5 1/2 x 7/8 Inch Foam Pads
Cobra™ Indigo 6 Inch Microfiber Bonnets 2 pack
Porter Cable 7424 XP Dual Action Orbital Polisher
1959 Cadillac 2-door Coupe de Ville (Out of stock)



I cover th topic of thin, small diameter pads for PC's and PC style tools in detail in my how to books...

Detailing How-To Book and Detailing How-To E-book by Mike Phillips

I just bought a bunch of CCS pads and would like to know if I should return them for the Hybrids when I make the Flex leap.

CCS pads are open cell and open cell pad, generally speaking last longer than any other type of foam formula.

I'd burn through them and then someday get the 4" backing plate and 5" Hybrid pads. Open Cell are also the easiest to wash and dry. I talk about this in my how to books too...


I have a brand new book dedicated to the Flex 3401, not sure when it will get through the editing process.


Hope the above helps... should give you some information to think about and chew on for a while...

I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts...

 

[arisking]

This will be an awesome read I am sure. Looking forward to it!!!

I have a brand new book dedicated to the Flex 3401, not sure when it will get through the editing process.

 

[Detail_Workx]

Hybrid Pads with the Lake county backing plate with the Flex 3401 is what I use. I did try Hydro Pads a few times and it worked great, the only thing is I wish Hydro pads last longer.

 

[Oldschool1975]

IMO the Hybrid pads are the best pads with using the Flex. While you do have to purchase the LC interchangeable backing plate for the proper fit they work great. I have found that the 5" Pads make using the flex much more fun and easier than with the larger pads.

Anytime I use my Flex I have only used the hybrid pads. I highly recommend them to anyone with a Flex.

I much prefer the 5.5" pads to the 6.5" on my PC.

Forgot to mention that I did have the circumference of the standard FLEX 3401 backing plate sanded down to accommodate the 5 1/2" pads

I believe I did stumble upon your post about cutting down your stock backing plate. The backing plate I have now on my PC is slightly smaller than the 5.5" pads I use and like how much closer to the edge of the pad than it is with the 6.5" pads

Hybrid Pads with the Lake county backing plate with the Flex 3401 is what I use. I did try Hydro Pads a few times and it worked great, the only thing is I wish Hydro pads last longer.

If you wouldn't mind giving me your opinion on why the Hydro pads don't last very long? Did they only last one or two detailing sessions?

For me it's the flat pad design and the pad formula. CCS are Open Cell and Hybrid are part open and part closed. (at least that's my understanding).

I use the term "Optimized" to describe how I think a tool is set up best for max effectiveness.

CCS pads are open cell and open cell pad, generally speaking last longer than any other type of foam formula.

I'd burn through them and then someday get the 4" backing plate and 5" Hybrid pads. Open Cell are also the easiest to wash and dry. I talk about this in my how to books too...

Hope the above helps... should give you some information to think about and chew on for a while...

I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts...

I recently bought a Grit Guard pad washer, would that make it easier to clean the Hybrid pads?

I've read the articles links you posted, thanks!

I agree, thin is in! It is so much easier to work with on my PCXP! So much more smoother too! The kit I got came with 6.5" pads and I got a orange CCS 5.5" pad in a Wolfgang twin set and needed it in a pinch, holy cow was it so much easier and nicer than a 6.5" pad. I'm assuming cause the PC just doesn't have the power/forced rotation to utilize it a bigger pad. So now I only use the 5.5" pads with my PC.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[281]

I've been using hydro pads for awhile now, they're great! I happen to have quite a few but I will soon making the transition to 5" hybrid pads. One additional note, I find with the smaller pad, I have more control of the flex. Can't wait to try out the 5" hybrids...

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

As others have mentioned the 5" hybrid pads are best suited for use on the 3401.

I have used a few other pads but NONE perform and handle the way the hybrids pads do.

 

[bam3715]

I have both the hybrid and the hydro pads. Like others have said, I prefer the hybrid pads.

 

[281]

As others have mentioned the 5" hybrid pads are best suited for use on the 3401.

I have used a few other pads but NONE perform and handle the way the hybrids pads do.

I have both the hybrid and the hydro pads. Like others have said, I prefer the hybrid pads.

are the hydro cyan and hybrid blue similar as far as cutting ability?

 

[bam3715]

It is my understanding that the hydro cyan and the orange hybrid are about the same. Both are for heavy cutting. I think they do that to keep us on our toes!

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

are the hydro cyan and hybrid blue similar as far as cutting ability?

No. I would say the Cyan Hydro tech is in between the blue hybrid and white hybrid pad.

See response number 2 from Todd.
Lake Country Hybrid Aggressiveness Pad Chart - Autopia Forums - Auto Detailing & Car Care Discussion Forum

 

[Detail_Workx]

Cyan pad, I was able to do 4 cars and the pads started to shred. Also this is me using medium pressure and making sure the pads are not wet and its completely dry. I guess its just the nature of the Foam pad design.But as far as the Tangerine and Crimson they do last a little longer.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I recently bought a Grit Guard pad washer, would that make it easier to clean the Hybrid pads?

[

Closed cell foam and closed/open cell phone, (hybrids), because water doesn't pass through them as easily as water will pass through open cell foam, cleaning in any fashion won't be quite as easy.

When using the Flex 3401 in a pad washer,

Only clean compound and polish pads - don't clean wax or sealant pads.

Use the 4.0 speed setting, you don't want to go to fast and you don't want to go to slow.

Be sure to pump the pad up and down against the Grit Guard Insert, it's the pumping action that injects the pads with water.

If you're using a spray-on pad cleaner instead of the pad condition cleaner that you add to the water in the pad washer bucket, then what works best in my opinion and gives you more cleaning for your money, is to spray the pad with the cleaner and then work the cleaner into the forum with your hand. Massage the foam so to speak to really agitate, dissolve and loosen any compound or polish residue.

Do this with a black nitrile glove on your hand, don't do it with your bare hands.

Then dunk it in the pad washer and pump it up and down.



The best way to clean pads in a pad washer is a a rotary buffer with an extension added to the spindle. This will move the backing plate and thus move the foam pad further away from the body of the tool.

This creates distance so it's easier to pump the tool up and down against the grit guard insert. With all other tools you'll find as you press the polisher down against the grit guard insert at some point the body of the tool will hit the splash guard lid.


See my article here...

Video: Tip for cleaning pads in a pad washer

I took this picture some time ago to show how you can use an adapter or extension on a rotary buffer to make cleaning a pad easier when cleaning pads in a pad washer.

How it works
When using the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer, the correct technique is to pump the pad up and down against the Grit Gard Insert as this causes the spring loaded water pumps to pump or inject water and/or water and cleaning solution into the face of the pad.

By using an extension you make it easier to pump or move the rotary buffer up and down inside the pad washer without the body of the rotary buffer bumping into the Splash Guard Lid.

This video uses a when cleaning a pad but it shows and explains how the water pumps work and how to pump any polisher up and down against the Grit Guard Insert inside the pad washer.

How to use a Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer
[video=youtube_share;TulZhDuDbqE"]How To clean your Buffing Pads - YouTube[/video]​

On Autogeek.net

Lake Country Double-Sided Pad Rotary Buffer Adapter

Optimum Double-Sided Pad Rotary Buffer Adapter

:xyxthumbs:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Cyan pad, I was able to do 4 cars and the pads started to shred. Also this is me using medium pressure and making sure the pads are not wet and its completely dry.

I guess its just the nature of the Foam pad design.But as far as the Tangerine and Crimson they do last a little longer.

I explain why in my how-to book, in the new second edition it's covered on pages 72 and 73. It has to do with Elasticity and tensile strength. You give up one characteristic to gain the opposite characteristic.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

CCS pads would be my top choice to use with the 3401. Durable, smooth and give great results.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here's an example of closed cell pads being cleaned using a rotary buffer in a Grit Guard Pad Washer.


As I've been working around the car I've been cleaning my pads in a Grit Guard Pad Washer using the new Grit Guard Universal Detailing Cart.


Grit Guard Pad Washer Cart


Love this cart!


You no longer have to bend over to clean you buffing pads!
By elevating the Grit Guard Pad Washer off the ground in a sturdy cart you no longer have to bend over to clean you buffing pads. The cart comes with 2 lockable wheels and if you lock them the cart stays in place as you run your polisher to clean the pads.

And of course the Grit Guard Pad Washer works great!

No camera flash shots...

With camera flash on... (same pad before and after shots)

You can see the compound residue building up around the inside top of the bucket via centrifugal force as you increase your RPM's to sling out excess cleaning solution and spent product.

If you machine buff cars for a living or often, you will love this cart and the pad washer...

The above was from this hot rod I buffed out a few years ago...


Bumblebee - Testing out the NEW DeWALT DWP849X

 

[Oldschool1975]

Only clean compound and polish pads - don't clean wax or sealant pads.

Use the 4.0 speed setting, you don't want to go to fast and you don't want to go to slow.

Be sure to pump the pad up and down against the Grit Guard Insert, it's the pumping action that injects the pads with water.

If you're using a spray-on pad cleaner instead of the pad condition cleaner that you add to the water in the pad washer bucket, then what works best in my opinion and gives you more cleaning for your money, is to spray the pad with the cleaner and then work the cleaner into the forum with your hand. Massage the foam so to speak to really agitate, dissolve and loosen any compound or polish residue.

Thanks for your input Mike!

One few more question about the pad washer and pads.....

1. If using a pad cleaning powder with a water mixer, do you rinse the pad with fresh water after cleaning it in the pad washer?

2. When the pads are "clean", do you use them right away to use less pads for the job, or let the dry over night?

Thanks,
Michael