Are the More Expensive Products Really Better?
- Thread starter tenblade2001
- Start date
tpr1634
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- Apr 23, 2012
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yes, and I've passed my addiction onto my kids (see my avatar)
I love it, it teaches ownership and pride plus I aways say cleanliness is next to godliness. :buffing:
dlc95
Well-known member
- May 18, 2013
- 6,062
- 26
I really like that line of pads.
In a very general way..
Orange is your typical compounding pad.
White is your typical polishing
Grey is what the recommend for finish polishing/waxing
Red is recommended for waxing.
I started off with green, blue and red for those applications.
Best thing I could add would be to try and get samples of a ton of products. You will find yourself drawn to certain products that you prefer.
For example lots of folks like the Meguires compounds/polishes, I found for me the Menzerna compounds/polishes easier to work with.
There are a ton of great products out there. Find what you like working with that gets you the results you want. We all have a product preference, it's your turn to find your product preferences.
Just be warned, unless you can find samples your checkbook will hate the acquisition of new demo products.
For example lots of folks like the Meguires compounds/polishes, I found for me the Menzerna compounds/polishes easier to work with.
There are a ton of great products out there. Find what you like working with that gets you the results you want. We all have a product preference, it's your turn to find your product preferences.
Just be warned, unless you can find samples your checkbook will hate the acquisition of new demo products.
dlc95
Well-known member
- May 18, 2013
- 6,062
- 26
Just to chime in...
Something I post in threads all the time is if whatever it is you're working on is important to you... then don't skimp on the abrasive technology.
Abrasive Technology = Compounds, Polishes and Cleaner/Waxes or AIO's
I posted the below to this thread last week....
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/wolfgang-car-care/87319-what-pad-finishing-glaze-3-0-a.html
And when you do any testing to prove anything to yourself always use black paint.
Trying to finesse the terrapin's tub cakes of red and white compounds is going to be a challenge regardless of technique. If there is someone out there that can do it, may hat is off to them!
conman1395
New member
- Nov 23, 2013
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For white, Duragloss 105 and Duragloss Aquawax will do wonders.
cardaddy
New member
- Nov 20, 2012
- 3,937
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Wow, I mean WOW you've gotten some great replies there. :dblthumb2:
Read wdmaccord, swanicyouth and FUNX725's replies several times and study them well.
I agree on the AIO suggestion. Once you get your own vehicles where you want them you really don't need it.
Also, Mikes suggestions on abrasive technology is exactly what you need to read up on.
For instance, the differences between SMAT and DAT abrasive technologies are huge when it comes to how you work.
For your (hard) white BMW paint you'd get great results with Meguiar's (SMAT) Ultimate Polish. Not to mention you can almost work it forever. Then you also have Menzerna (DAT) 4000 that brings out that last nth degree but it works totally differently. (And may end up using more of it.) Both are very good, one might cut better and work longer doing it, while the other cuts less but finishes slicker (albeit with more passes).
Can't comment on any CG stuff because the only stuff from them I use are shampoos.
Speaking of shampoo, get Duragloss 901 (it's 902 in the gallon size). It'll work in buckets, and works great in a foam cannon as well. Cleans awesome, and is super slick. :dblthumb2:
(1) AIO - Don't think you need it. I'd get a good polish and keep it handy.
(2) Swirl/scratch remover - Go back to #1
(3) Glaze - Don't use one myself, I'll reserve judgment there.
(4) Tire and Trim - Tires and Trim are two drastically different things there.
I'm not one for crazy shiny so I'll use Optimum Opti-Bond, DP Tire Gel or Blackfire Gel
Trim - WG Trim Sealant or UTTGP will keep it looking like new!
(5) Quick Detail- Recently I've been using a sample gallon of Duragloss Fast Clean & Shine with excellent results. I also like Megs 114 for rinseless wash and you can use that for QD with a nice plush towel. It's CRAZY cheap when diluted as much as 128:1!!!!!!
Also: Get yourself some Duragloss Aquawax! It'll leave an excellent shine and is super slick. You can use it while drying, or after drying as a spray wax. (It's more of a sealant, just not a pure sealant.) NOW THAT YOU HAVE IT. You can mix DG FC&S 75:25 with DG AW for a KILLER QD spray!
(6) Liquid wax- The whole terminology of "liquid wax" is a bit of a misnomer. Most all "waxes" these days are not true wax in any sense of the word. Most don't even HAVE any carnauba wax in them..... and are more of a polymer based sealant. Meguiar's Ultimate (whether paste or liquid) is one for instance. Meguiar's #26 actually has both *as Bob stated* and is an absolutely stunning 'topper' that can be applied over most any sealant and has a DOI (Distinction Of Image) rating better than most everything out there (including multi $$$$$ waxes). Collinite 845 is uber durable. Smelly, but durable. (You WILL use gloves when applying it or your hands will smell for days.)
(7) Paste wax- Were it me.... I'd forego a paste wax altogether. Instead go for a nice sealant and let it do it's work for months on end.
Those could be Meguiar's M21 2.0 (affordable), Menz Powerlock or even Wolfgang 3.0 (REALLY NICE).
You can wash with a sealant and it'll still be there. You can top it with lots of other products like Duragloss Aquawax or Meguiar's Ultimate Spray Wax or Meguiar's Quick Wax (the pro version of USW) or any other spray you happen to like.
When you get ready to remove your LSP/sealant just break out your light polish, do the once over no more than twice a year (Spring & Fall for instance) and start over.
rops:
(8) I have not used IronX - Ironx will amaze you! On that white paint you'll see colors that will scare you! :laughing: Not for regular use, but absolutely recommended before any compounding/polishing session. Might try grabbing up either a foam gun (search for this "Butchers Foam Gun" it's the same Gilmour unit as you'll see on detailing sites at a greatly reduced price OR a foam cannon (if you have an electric pressure washer). The reason I say that is you can then get the IronX Snow Foam which is crazy easy to use. :xyxthumbs:
One thing you didn't mention was using clay. I'd say get yourself a Nanoskin pad for your buffer. It isn't cheap, but it'll last for years doing your own cars. Easily doing 12~15 cars with it which makes it cheaper BY FAR than clay. (Plus if you drop it you don't have to throw it away.):dblthumb2: You can also get the twin pack of red & blue hand held Nanoskin sponges that are squared on one end and rounded on the other. They'll allow you to get right up to all you edges, do your glass, you name it. I've not used a whole block of clay in 2 years since I've started using Nanoskin products.
I would caution however that you not get 105. It's just too hard for most people to work with. If you really need a heavy cut compound, (and want SMAT technology) get 101 it's well worth the price! However if you want a heavy cut that's much easier to work with (albeit DAT technology) get Menz FG400. It'll finish down as close to LSP ready as you'll get out of any compound, especially on hard paint. You can actually start with a hard cut pad, work it halfway through it's duty cycle, then switch to a lighter pad, give it just an ever so slight misting with distilled water and finish it down.
Actually all of the Menzerna products respond well to that process, working it halfway, misting it, then hitting it with a clean pad, changing your machine and arm speed and finishing it down. Some (like myself) call that the 1.5 Step Process. Although Smack/Mike might call it the Smack process.
Said a lot not to say anything huh? :laughing:
So.... compound and polish Megs UC/UP or 101/205 or Menz 400/1500/2000/4000 or Wolfgang trio (their glaze isn't actually a glaze it's a polish). Wolfgang is more or less a redesigned Menzerna product so in practice it works very VERY similar.
Most importantly is this. Find what you like and use it often.
Read wdmaccord, swanicyouth and FUNX725's replies several times and study them well.
I agree on the AIO suggestion. Once you get your own vehicles where you want them you really don't need it.
Also, Mikes suggestions on abrasive technology is exactly what you need to read up on.
For instance, the differences between SMAT and DAT abrasive technologies are huge when it comes to how you work.
For your (hard) white BMW paint you'd get great results with Meguiar's (SMAT) Ultimate Polish. Not to mention you can almost work it forever. Then you also have Menzerna (DAT) 4000 that brings out that last nth degree but it works totally differently. (And may end up using more of it.) Both are very good, one might cut better and work longer doing it, while the other cuts less but finishes slicker (albeit with more passes).
Can't comment on any CG stuff because the only stuff from them I use are shampoos.
Speaking of shampoo, get Duragloss 901 (it's 902 in the gallon size). It'll work in buckets, and works great in a foam cannon as well. Cleans awesome, and is super slick. :dblthumb2:
(1) AIO - Don't think you need it. I'd get a good polish and keep it handy.
(2) Swirl/scratch remover - Go back to #1
(3) Glaze - Don't use one myself, I'll reserve judgment there.
(4) Tire and Trim - Tires and Trim are two drastically different things there.
I'm not one for crazy shiny so I'll use Optimum Opti-Bond, DP Tire Gel or Blackfire Gel
Trim - WG Trim Sealant or UTTGP will keep it looking like new!
(5) Quick Detail- Recently I've been using a sample gallon of Duragloss Fast Clean & Shine with excellent results. I also like Megs 114 for rinseless wash and you can use that for QD with a nice plush towel. It's CRAZY cheap when diluted as much as 128:1!!!!!!
Also: Get yourself some Duragloss Aquawax! It'll leave an excellent shine and is super slick. You can use it while drying, or after drying as a spray wax. (It's more of a sealant, just not a pure sealant.) NOW THAT YOU HAVE IT. You can mix DG FC&S 75:25 with DG AW for a KILLER QD spray!
(6) Liquid wax- The whole terminology of "liquid wax" is a bit of a misnomer. Most all "waxes" these days are not true wax in any sense of the word. Most don't even HAVE any carnauba wax in them..... and are more of a polymer based sealant. Meguiar's Ultimate (whether paste or liquid) is one for instance. Meguiar's #26 actually has both *as Bob stated* and is an absolutely stunning 'topper' that can be applied over most any sealant and has a DOI (Distinction Of Image) rating better than most everything out there (including multi $$$$$ waxes). Collinite 845 is uber durable. Smelly, but durable. (You WILL use gloves when applying it or your hands will smell for days.)
(7) Paste wax- Were it me.... I'd forego a paste wax altogether. Instead go for a nice sealant and let it do it's work for months on end.
Those could be Meguiar's M21 2.0 (affordable), Menz Powerlock or even Wolfgang 3.0 (REALLY NICE).
You can wash with a sealant and it'll still be there. You can top it with lots of other products like Duragloss Aquawax or Meguiar's Ultimate Spray Wax or Meguiar's Quick Wax (the pro version of USW) or any other spray you happen to like.
When you get ready to remove your LSP/sealant just break out your light polish, do the once over no more than twice a year (Spring & Fall for instance) and start over.
rops:(8) I have not used IronX - Ironx will amaze you! On that white paint you'll see colors that will scare you! :laughing: Not for regular use, but absolutely recommended before any compounding/polishing session. Might try grabbing up either a foam gun (search for this "Butchers Foam Gun" it's the same Gilmour unit as you'll see on detailing sites at a greatly reduced price OR a foam cannon (if you have an electric pressure washer). The reason I say that is you can then get the IronX Snow Foam which is crazy easy to use. :xyxthumbs:
One thing you didn't mention was using clay. I'd say get yourself a Nanoskin pad for your buffer. It isn't cheap, but it'll last for years doing your own cars. Easily doing 12~15 cars with it which makes it cheaper BY FAR than clay. (Plus if you drop it you don't have to throw it away.):dblthumb2: You can also get the twin pack of red & blue hand held Nanoskin sponges that are squared on one end and rounded on the other. They'll allow you to get right up to all you edges, do your glass, you name it. I've not used a whole block of clay in 2 years since I've started using Nanoskin products.
I would caution however that you not get 105. It's just too hard for most people to work with. If you really need a heavy cut compound, (and want SMAT technology) get 101 it's well worth the price! However if you want a heavy cut that's much easier to work with (albeit DAT technology) get Menz FG400. It'll finish down as close to LSP ready as you'll get out of any compound, especially on hard paint. You can actually start with a hard cut pad, work it halfway through it's duty cycle, then switch to a lighter pad, give it just an ever so slight misting with distilled water and finish it down.
Actually all of the Menzerna products respond well to that process, working it halfway, misting it, then hitting it with a clean pad, changing your machine and arm speed and finishing it down. Some (like myself) call that the 1.5 Step Process. Although Smack/Mike might call it the Smack process.
Said a lot not to say anything huh? :laughing:
So.... compound and polish Megs UC/UP or 101/205 or Menz 400/1500/2000/4000 or Wolfgang trio (their glaze isn't actually a glaze it's a polish). Wolfgang is more or less a redesigned Menzerna product so in practice it works very VERY similar.
Most importantly is this. Find what you like and use it often.
(By our mentor and friend Mike Phillips)
custmsprty
New member
- Apr 11, 2012
- 7,496
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Agreed, and use what you have before investing more money in other products.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
I'll stick to what I posted in post #10
When it comes to working on car paint and specifically modern basecoat/clearcoat paints, technique is not the most important factor.
Heck I've taught thousands of people how to create a perfect finish their FIRST time machine buffing. Zero experience and their first time buffing on a car. Technique wasn't the most important factor.
Below is a prime example. This is a Richard Zocchi car. Google him. Not your average everyday practice car.
Porter Cable 7424 - Meguiar's G110v2 - Griot's DA Detailing Classes
When it comes to working on car paint and specifically modern basecoat/clearcoat paints, technique is not the most important factor.
Heck I've taught thousands of people how to create a perfect finish their FIRST time machine buffing. Zero experience and their first time buffing on a car. Technique wasn't the most important factor.
Below is a prime example. This is a Richard Zocchi car. Google him. Not your average everyday practice car.
Porter Cable 7424 - Meguiar's G110v2 - Griot's DA Detailing Classes
wrb_subie
New member
- Feb 20, 2013
- 456
- 0
Good thread..I often wonder the same things. I can say however that I use different products on my 2 cars (ones a summer and ones a winter car) and most often would never physically be able to tell the difference. Like stated though however the ease of use is where I know the difference.
I look at it like this whatever you decide buy small bottles, i.e. small investment.
I know 2 "value" products that I LOVE, are UWW+ (I use this like water) and Megs hyper dressing.
Honestly, I can't wait to get my hands on 400/4000 but not until Im about done with my bottles 105/205. I also love m21/26.
There's just too many products out there to buy $100 jar of wax, IMHO esp. if you have to buy a DA and about 6-10 pads.
Just easier making a $20 mistake then a $50 one. My .02
I know 2 "value" products that I LOVE, are UWW+ (I use this like water) and Megs hyper dressing.
Honestly, I can't wait to get my hands on 400/4000 but not until Im about done with my bottles 105/205. I also love m21/26.
There's just too many products out there to buy $100 jar of wax, IMHO esp. if you have to buy a DA and about 6-10 pads.
Just easier making a $20 mistake then a $50 one. My .02
custmsprty
New member
- Apr 11, 2012
- 7,496
- 0
CG Project J97 wax is a prime example of your inquiry. $850.00+ ???? That's like a Flex 3401 and Rupes Mini, pads and products vs one can of wax? Hmmmmmm, makes one think twice.
FUNX650
New member
- Dec 1, 2010
- 21,057
- 1
•Most importantly, IMO:
-Brand names can stay out of the buying decision.
-The only thing that really counts is ingredients.
•For example:
-Take a look at the ingredients of two, or more,
car-care products.
-Research them until you really know what they are.
-Compare the ingredients in the products to each other.
-The decision of which product to purchase should then be more easily made.
•Don't let marketing/hype get in the way.
-You'll be surprised at what you can discover about a product, once you dig deep into what's in it.
•Did I hear you say the list of ingredients is "unobtainable"?
-Then it's probably best to move on down the line.
Bob
-Brand names can stay out of the buying decision.
-The only thing that really counts is ingredients.
•For example:
-Take a look at the ingredients of two, or more,
car-care products.
-Research them until you really know what they are.
-Compare the ingredients in the products to each other.
-The decision of which product to purchase should then be more easily made.
•Don't let marketing/hype get in the way.
-You'll be surprised at what you can discover about a product, once you dig deep into what's in it.
•Did I hear you say the list of ingredients is "unobtainable"?
-Then it's probably best to move on down the line.
Bob
conman1395
New member
- Nov 23, 2013
- 1,622
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Speaking of ingredients, Tic Tacs and the stuff I use in my hair has carnuba wax in it!
But really, speaking of ingredients, the MSDS Sheet isn't a known commodity and assume that if they aren't listed on the back they aren't anywhere to be found. So give the MSDS sheet a search
But really, speaking of ingredients, the MSDS Sheet isn't a known commodity and assume that if they aren't listed on the back they aren't anywhere to be found. So give the MSDS sheet a search