Are these swirl marks?

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Heyjohnboy

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Hi all. I just spent the day washing and claying, and then applied Optimum G-P-S with a 9" orbital polisher using a Turtle Wax foam polishing bonnet. The paint looks great from a distance and up close under indirect sunlight. But when I look at it under direct sun, I'm seeing what looks like slight circular marks radiating out from the focal point of the sun's reflection.

As I'm new to learning the finer points of detailing my car, I'm not sure if these are just radiant reflection lines or if they are slight, very circular swirl marks. I tried to take a few pictures so you could take a look and let me know if this is normal, and if not, what I should do next. :-)

Miata_swirl_1.jpg


Miata_swirl_2.jpg


Miata_swirl_3.jpg



Thanks so much for your help. I LOVE Auto Geek and I'm buying all my product here now and watching as many tutorials as I can! :xyxthumbs:
 
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Those are light swirls. Nothing major really, but still swirl marks. A good polish paired with a white pad would clear that up very well i would think depending on the paint hardness.
 
Swirls are never gonna' hide from the sun. ;)
The problem is the 9" buffer just doesn't have the power to do any real paint correction. I have one piled up here somewhere that worked to spread wax some years ago, but the pads ended up causing more damage than good.

The swirls cause the light to bounce around and that's why it looks so much worse in the sun than in the garage. As you've already noticed.... unless you're really looking for um' you don't see them. :D Does that mean you HAVE to fix them? Not really. :dunno: Will you FEEL bEtTeR if you do? You bEtCHa'! (Welcome to the sickness called AG!)

This is from another thread. Note how you don't see the swirls, yet there is a strong light source.

slo-cut5.jpg
 
Yep those are swirls. Also a bit of holograms on the first picture I think.

Can you put up what you used exactly?
 
Last year, I purchased a 1/2 gallon of Optimum GPS, I've used it on a couple of personal projects already, and it is a very good product, no regrets on the purchase.

I believe the polish type is very fine, and relatively mild-gentle, and I believe not in a high concentration in GPS.

I don't believe that an orbital waxer will do more harm than good, but it will be mostly ineffecient in getting better paint correction. Problem is, it's quite hard to get good-consistent Pad Rotation with these tools. They mostly just jiggle.

I think Mike Phillips, our Forum Expert touched on this once, about the fallicy of swirls particularly being circular in nature. That in truth they go every which way, and it is only the sun, a point source of light that makes swirls appear as such.

While one can better correct the paint surfaces via hand methods, and you can get much better results provided you have the proper products in hand, and the proper techniques, it will take much much longer.

Thus, a pristine show finish can be had by hand, but will take longer, and will take its toll on your hands, and arms.

As the saying goes, "Rome was not conquered in a Day", and the same applies to your vehicle, you can divide the vehicle into sections. A fender, a section of the hood, roof, etc etc. You'll start with a more agressive product such as a clear coat safe liquid compound, and graduate to finer abrasive polishes. There are of course many available here, and as well at most better stocked stores that carry car care goods.

When I joined this forum back in october last year, I came to a realization, and a detailing crossroads that I needed something a bit more user friendly than my Rotary Polisher, something to bridge the gap between Rotary, and Hand processes. The answer of course was the DA Polishing Machine. I personally chose the Porter Cable 7424XXP.

I bought 2 LC Backing Plates in 5", and 3-1/2" sizes, and Pads in 5.5", and 4" size of various densities. Those sizes that were chosen are the common consensus here of what Pad-Plate Combinations typically work best with these types of machines.

I knew quite well from experience (or should I say in a couple of instances a lack of) that a Rotary Buffer in the wrong hands, or in an absence of moment's concentration can cause more harm than good.

The DA is a much more forgiving tool, and sorry if I sound like some salesman here, but the DA is a real time saver, and a more ideal tool for more easily achieving the desired showroom condition final results you seek.
Mark
 
Thanks for all the quick replies! I've been eyeing the Porter Cable 7424, but just haven't had the cash to spring for it just yet. It sounds like that may be what I need, along with a white pad or two. I guess they're minor, but I'm already getting addicted to the concept of getting a swirl free finish!

Will I need to drop down to the Hyper Polish to get rid of these, or should the G-P-S do the job once I get the right polisher?

In the meantime, is there anything further I can do to mitigate them, or should I just start saving for the right tool? :-)

Thanks again!
 
Griots Garage 6" is on sale for 85 at tire rack right now if you're looking at a bargain.
 
Again returning to your original findings, you have evidently found both products, and processes are not working to your expectations. This is of course common to all of us, where a product, or process just ain't making it.

And when they're not, then one needs to seek alternatives to get the desired results.

The tools many have in their arsenals are surely a tremendous aid in many ways. Imagine if you will, a professional detailer with nothing but his two hands to get his/her jobs done? Such people don't wish to spend days, or weeks to do the necessary processes that face them.

With a personal vehicle, and for a hobbyist-enthusiast, this of course is a bit different. If one chooses, one can then stretch such work over a period of many hours, days, and even weeks if they choose, taking one aspect of car care as both time, and money allows.

Tools help, but without the necessary chemical products on hand, the tools can then be rendered useless. As an example, what good would it be trying to correct a poor paint finish with the finest tools, and the improper chemicals, such as polishes, or compounds? You must have product on hand.

Also, what good is a $350 Flex DA, when the area you are trying to correct-polish is in some out of the way tight area, that cannot be addressed with any tool known to man?

Hence, the proper products, and the human hand then come into play, and while the cost outlays add up, it will be wise-smart to have a good variety of polishes, and compounds that are compatible with the paint systems, and can be used to good effect by hand.

There's many very good over the counter products that can be had, by companies like Meguiars, and 3M.

All of us at some point have to resort to hand processes to correct paint in areas which cannot be gotten to by machine.

Such liquid compounds by either company I mention above can be used to great effect on larger panels, and by use via hand application, one can more easily monitor their progress. If one application process has helped restore the finish, but still no cigar, then one can apply again, and again, until the desired results are achieved.

Understanding how to read paint comes with some experience, but is easily learnable, and reading can help, and always remember, have good lighting, work on cool paint out of the sun.
Mark
 
af90 said:
Griots Garage 6" is on sale for 85 at tire rack right now if you're looking at a bargain.
Click to expand...

That's a great price for the Griot's DA. I just ordered it here at Autogeek last week on a price match for $98 (and free shipping) and thought I got a great deal.
 
Thanks again for all the great replies. MarkD, your detail is much appreciated. Cardaddy, what a beautiful finish. That's what I'm hoping to accomplish. And Mike, those extensive descriptions with all the accompanying photos were incredibly helpful.

I'll post back the results of my next attempt and see how much progress I'm able to make!
 
I hope it's ok to pick up this thread where we left off. If it would have been better to start a new thread, please let me know.

So I saved up and purchased the Porter Cable and some Lake County Cross Groove pads and gave it another try with the G-P-S and the orange light cutting pad. Much better results, but I'm still seeing swirl marks (just not as many).

I was going to try Hyper Polish the next time around, still using the orange pad. I thought about trying the Hyper Compound, but Mike always says try the least aggressive approach first.

Do you think the Hyper Polish will get me where I want? And if it does, would I follow with G-P-S or OCW? I've had a few people suggest that G-P-S and HP are a bit too close, but G-P-S does have a sealant. Not sure which approach would be best?

I'll post follow-up pics after this next round. Thanks so much for your help!
 
Bit frustrated...need some more guidance

So this time I tried three different combinations on three different sections of My trunk, but I can't say that I'm seeing much difference, and I'm still getting minor marks, so that "jeweled" finish is still evading me. ��

Here's what I tried today:

1. OHP with an orange cross groove pad at speed of 5.
2. OHC with an orange pad at 5, then OHP with a White pad at speed of 3.
3. OHP with orange pad at 5, then GPS with a gray pad at 3.

All three still showed some minor swirls or scratches, although for some reason I'm thinking that option 1 showed slightly fewer marks.

So My question is, am I doing something wrong? Any further help or guidance you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I realize that I'm an amateur trying to get a pro look, but I'm hoping that with enough guidance and practice I can get that jeweled finish I'm now craving. See what shopping at Auto Geek has done to me? ��

Thanks!

John
 
You need a more aggressive product. fg400 m101 m105 are good ones.
 
Re: Bit frustrated...need some more guidance

Heyjohnboy said:
So this time I tried three different combinations on three different sections of My trunk, but I can't say that I'm seeing much difference, and I'm still getting minor marks, so that "jeweled" finish is still evading me. ��

Here's what I tried today:

1. OHP with an orange cross groove pad at speed of 5.
2. OHC with an orange pad at 5, then OHP with a White pad at speed of 3.
3. OHP with orange pad at 5, then GPS with a gray pad at 3.

All three still showed some minor swirls or scratches, although for some reason I'm thinking that option 1 showed slightly fewer marks.

So My question is, am I doing something wrong?

John
Click to expand...


Those area all very good products but some paint systems are more finicky than others. I'm also kind of a flat pad fan myself, but that's just me...


The 3 setting on the Porter Cable 7424 is not going to do much, especially with the Lake Country Cross Groove Pads. I wrote about "most" of the pad options available for dual action polishers back in 2010 in the below thread, there's been some pad changes since then but most of the information is still current.

5 1/2 inch and 6 inch Buffing Pads on Autogeek's Online Store


6.5" Cobra Cross Groove Flex Pad
6_0CobraPads01.jpg



6.5" Cobra pads are tapered around the outer perimeter and measure approximately 6 1/4" in diameter
6_0CobraPads02.jpg



Approximately 1 1/4" thick
6_0CobraPads03.jpg





One of the things I covered in both my how-to books, the first edition and now the second edition is that tools with free spinning spindles, like the Porter Cable, Meguiar's G110v2 and the Griot's DA, is that they like smaller pads and thinner pads, not larger pad and thicker pads.

The Griot's does the best job followed by Meguiar's for maintaining pad rotation for the larger pads and the PC can do it but you do need to really focus in on your technique, specifically holding the pad flat to the surface, never at an angle.


Anyway, what I would try is the white pad with the Optimum Hyper Polish on the 5-6 speed setting. Prime the pad and only buff a section about 16" to 18" squarish or so, not the 2 x 2' size everyone and their brother always recommends.

Don't buff to a dry buff but do make at least 6-8 section passes as I think Optimum Hyper Polish uses both DAT and SMAT and you need to work DAT all the way through the buffing cycle. Not super important but definitely not a short cycle type of abrasive technology.


If you get into a pinch and just can't get the jewelled look you're looking for then get some Optimum Finish Polish, this has worked on any paint system I've used it on and get a few 5.5" LC Flat Pads to really take advantage of the capability of the Porter Cable polishers.



Lake Country

5.5" Flat Pads
5_5FlatPads01.jpg



In order to use the 5.5" Flat pads with ANY of the dual action polishers you need a 5" backing plate. I also cover these points in my how-to book.


5 inch Backing Plates on Meguiar's, Griot's and Porter Cable DA Polishers



:)






:)
 
Thanks for the great suggestions! I'm going to try them one by one, if necessary, starting with OHP and the White pad on a smaller section at 5-6 as Mike suggested, because I already have the product and equipment for that.

I really appreciate all your help and will report back after the next go-found. ��
 
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