Becoming more efficient while buffing? tips?

GSKR said:
He is up Against the wall he is getting good compensation from the dealer to remove scratches and performing a skill that the guys in house can't do.So he has to perform with removing scratches,quickly which is time consuming.A white hybrid pad won't give him the results the dealer is paying for.He has to cheat on the finishing work.
Click to expand...


Please explain in more detail

Thanks
 
you need to get 3D hd speed! 4-6 passes yields AMAZING results with an orange pad and flex!
 
Tips to save time on compounding and polishing a car:

Here are some things we do on "production" jobs that we would NEVER do on our retail jobs. Mainly this is for dealer cars, trade-ins, etc.

1. Don't tape anything off. Unless absolutely necessary to protect a critical piece of trim... just don't tape anything. Instead use appropriate sized tools & pads and be careful around plastic trim.

2. If doing more than one compounding/polishing step don't worry about wiping off all the residue from your initial step. Your second polishing, AIO, or waxing step will pick up any residual product.

3. People always talk about the killer "1-step" product or process; however, sometimes a "quick" 2-step process will yield better results and take the same amount of time. For example, instead of making 4 or 5 passes with one product for a "1 step" process you could make one cutting pass with a compound and then one polishing pass with a polish or all-in-one product.

You could even do something like compound a section and, using the same product left on the panel, switch to a finishing pad to refine the finish. This works better with two machines. Or have a helper follow you for even faster results.

4. All-In-One products are your friend. We use M66, D151, or mostly HD Speed depending on the paint and our goals for the project.

This is all I can think of at the moment. I'm interested to learn some tips from others because we're always trying to save time on our dealer accounts without sacrificing too much quality.
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
I'm assuming he means using some sort of a high-filling glaze rather than perfectly finishing down the paint with zero holograms or haze.
Click to expand...

GSKR mentions "removing scratches" twice in his post, so I don't think he was suggesting use of a glaze to "hide" scratches.

I could be wrong though.



Paragraph
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
Tips to save time on compounding and polishing a car:



Here are some things we do on "production" jobs that we would NEVER do on our retail jobs. Mainly this is for dealer cars, trade-ins, etc.



1. Don't tape anything off. Unless absolutely necessary to protect a critical piece of trim... just don't tape anything. Instead use appropriate sized tools & pads and be careful around plastic trim.



2. If doing more than one compounding/polishing step don't worry about wiping off all the residue from your initial step. Your second polishing, AIO, or waxing step will pick up any residual product.



3. People always talk about the killer "1-step" product or process; however, sometimes a "quick" 2-step process will yield better results and take the same amount of time. For example, instead of making 4 or 5 passes with one product for a "1 step" process you could make one cutting pass with a compound and then one polishing pass with a polish or all-in-one product.



You could even do something like compound a section and, using the same product left on the panel, switch to a finishing pad to refine the finish. This works better with two machines. Or have a helper follow you for even faster results.



4. All-In-One products are your friend. We use M66, D151, or mostly HD Speed depending on the paint and our goals for the project.



This is all I can think of at the moment. I'm interested to learn some tips from others because we're always trying to save time on our dealer accounts without sacrificing too much quality.
Click to expand...


Nice tips! A couple there I might have to try out
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
Tips to save time on compounding and polishing a car:

Here are some things we do on "production" jobs that we would NEVER do on our retail jobs. Mainly this is for dealer cars, trade-ins, etc.

1. Don't tape anything off. Unless absolutely necessary to protect a critical piece of trim... just don't tape anything. Instead use appropriate sized tools & pads and be careful around plastic trim.

2. If doing more than one compounding/polishing step don't worry about wiping off all the residue from your initial step. Your second polishing, AIO, or waxing step will pick up any residual product.

3. People always talk about the killer "1-step" product or process; however, sometimes a "quick" 2-step process will yield better results and take the same amount of time. For example, instead of making 4 or 5 passes with one product for a "1 step" process you could make one cutting pass with a compound and then one polishing pass with a polish or all-in-one product.

You could even do something like compound a section and, using the same product left on the panel, switch to a finishing pad to refine the finish. This works better with two machines. Or have a helper follow you for even faster results.

4. All-In-One products are your friend. We use M66, D151, or mostly HD Speed depending on the paint and our goals for the project.

This is all I can think of at the moment. I'm interested to learn some tips from others because we're always trying to save time on our dealer accounts without sacrificing too much quality.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I RARELY tape anything off unless it's a necessity. Majority of these cars are trashed and going to auction, but this dealer has discovered a REAL shine is bringing considerably much more money opposed to a glaze. He is specifically requesting a true buff so I can't glaze and run with the money. They are willing to pay. I took a Malibu that wouldn't ring the bell for 2500 2 weeks in a row, did a 3 stage on it and they scored 5600 on it. Cost them 130 for interior detail and 250 for the buff. I went further than I should have on that car - but it's paying off. I have a red Expedition for this weekend in my spare time, not paying me hourly, it needs a vacuuming and buff - they offered 400 and it's a repaint. So I expect the paint to be super soft and will be 'easy' money despite its size.

I like the idea about not worrying about all the residue from the first step. I worry that the glaze effect left behind will interfere with the final step. I will have to try that. I know I'm wasting a few extra minutes on every panel doing this.

I've also adapted on some cars to doing multiple steps on one panel, including wax. And moving on to the next. I'll work the first few inches of the next panel first so I don't have to worry about taking off wax when I move along.

I use my DeWalt and PC together quite often, but I run them on the same power chord and stupid me, haven't gotten a dual outlet for it yet. Never even thought of that until just now.

I was using optimum poli-seal for certain cars, it barely has any correcting capability beyond super fine swirls unless it's being worked on a repaint. But that one bottle made me a lot of money on new cars being prepped for delivery. HD Speed is an AIO with decent correcting capabilities?
 
RFrommann said:
you need to get 3D hd speed! 4-6 passes yields AMAZING results with an orange pad and flex!
Click to expand...


No flex for me. I haven't used one, but I have held one. I wasn't thrilled about its size, when I fight with my Rotary at times just because of its size. Fatigue is a huge issue for me as I work 8-9hrs at my primary business, and another 6-10hrs at night buffing dealer vehicles, 5-6 nights a week. Have you tried HD Speed with a PC, with an orange or even yellow pad?
 
heckhole said:
Thanks! I RARELY tape anything off unless it's a necessity. Majority of these cars are trashed and going to auction, but this dealer has discovered a REAL shine is bringing considerably much more money opposed to a glaze. He is specifically requesting a true buff so I can't glaze and run with the money. They are willing to pay. I took a Malibu that wouldn't ring the bell for 2500 2 weeks in a row, did a 3 stage on it and they scored 5600 on it. Cost them 130 for interior detail and 250 for the buff. I went further than I should have on that car - but it's paying off. I have a red Expedition for this weekend in my spare time, not paying me hourly, it needs a vacuuming and buff - they offered 400 and it's a repaint. So I expect the paint to be super soft and will be 'easy' money despite its size.

I like the idea about not worrying about all the residue from the first step. I worry that the glaze effect left behind will interfere with the final step. I will have to try that. I know I'm wasting a few extra minutes on every panel doing this.

I've also adapted on some cars to doing multiple steps on one panel, including wax. And moving on to the next. I'll work the first few inches of the next panel first so I don't have to worry about taking off wax when I move along.

I use my DeWalt and PC together quite often, but I run them on the same power chord and stupid me, haven't gotten a dual outlet for it yet. Never even thought of that until just now.

I was using optimum poli-seal for certain cars, it barely has any correcting capability beyond super fine swirls unless it's being worked on a repaint. But that one bottle made me a lot of money on new cars being prepped for delivery. HD Speed is an AIO with decent correcting capabilities?
Click to expand...


Going back to the Malibu for a moment. Depending on your relationship with your dealer account, I'd highly suggest doing a multiple stage correction for free, or for your normal dealer rate and let them see for themselves what will happen at auction. Everyone at the auctions can tell immediately which cars are glazed, most auctions have an incredibly amount of lights around the block, every defect is on display. I've also watched live Internet broadcasts of these auctions and it's not unusual to see a buyer walk up with a flash light and inspect a 'shiney' car. You could manage to squeak some extra cash from your accounts by trying this.

I've also done a few cars that were slated for auction, but I felt that they were solid cars, went an extra step and they decided to retail the car and let me bill them for my extra time.

The consumer may not care so much that the paint is near perfect, but when you take a mess of a car and return it to near new condition, dealers get excited because they already stole the car on trade and will feel that you're making them money, versus being a necessare expense that they hate having.

It's worth the risk trying this.
 
Wow, can you explain to me how you ever got a dealership to consent to this initially? Did you just do a ton of work on one car for free and they saw the difference in the price they were able to bring, retail or at auction?

The dealers that I've ran into seem to only care about price, usually they'll pay around $100 for an interior, plus clay bar & aio on the ext (~3 hours), which is why I refuse to do business with them.

You said that you work another job, is this detailing for another segment of the market, or something different entirely? With the money that you're getting for your work I would look to expand and hire employees if there's enough demand for your services.
 
heckhole said:
Have you tried HD Speed with a PC, with an orange or even yellow pad?
Click to expand...

I use a flex at my job and a griots 6" with 5" backing plate. Yields same results in very similar time honestly. I haven't tried with yellow pad, but I'm going to soon as I get the chance!
Your hours sound like mine! I detail about 40hrs at my job, and do a couple cars a week after work. Several 8a-2a days lately! Sometimes back to back!
 
PinnacleAutoCT said:
Wow, can you explain to me how you ever got a dealership to consent to this initially? Did you just do a ton of work on one car for free and they saw the difference in the price they were able to bring, retail or at auction?

The dealers that I've ran into seem to only care about price, usually they'll pay around $100 for an interior, plus clay bar & aio on the ext (~3 hours), which is why I refuse to do business with them.

You said that you work another job, is this detailing for another segment of the market, or something different entirely? With the money that you're getting for your work I would look to expand and hire employees if there's enough demand for your services.
Click to expand...

I am considering expanding, but I am nervous that if I hire & train the right guy, they will get poached by one of the 2 detailers in town.

What happened was about 3 years ago, I had family with a small used dealership. They asked me to buff a car that hadn't sold at auction for over a month, it was an AMG Kompressor CL55 that had a salvage title, they took it on trade. It was a solid car, rebuilt well, couldn't tell anything happened. However it was grey in color from all the swirls, I did a 3 stage on it and unearthed the excellent black paint job it received. It wouldn't ring the bell for 12 grand with low miles. The first trip back to the auction it sold for 15k. I did this with a few other cars and my family was actually buying trade-ins from other dealers that were run at auction and came back, I'd buff them back to life and right back to auction they'd go. Whenever business was slow, they'd buy up trade ins and make their income at auction.

They eventually tired of the business and took some personal time and sold their lot.

I literally walked in to the largest dealership locally and offered my services for one time free. I asked the GM to see what his 'detailed' cars looked like, explained how I could make them look 10x better and asked who was doing their work & what the rate was. Local detailers did an inside and outside service for $130-150, this was vacuuming, dusting, spraying some juice, washing the outside, clean the wheels, glaze & wax. The GM specifically said "every car looks like $#&!!! A couple days later" and that's when I insisted he let me do a car, the right way, for free, run it at auction and see what happens. He said the auctions offer detailing services, but it's a quick detail and it's expensive. He wouldn't give me a price. I did the first car for free and that was all she wrote. They scored on the first car and since then, they've opened up their wholesale parking lot and we literally walk inside, grab a dealer plate and drive as many cars as we can a day, back to our shop. We pick which cars 90% of the time, and we decide what gets done to them the vast majority of the time. A couple times a week he will say "just clean the inside good and wax it". Nearly every car I'm doing is getting at least a swirl removing/improving polish and 3-4 a week are getting a multiple stage buff.

You're not just a sub contracted car cleaner for dealerships. You have a lot more worth than you'd realize to these guys if you can convince them to let you show them how you can resurrect a violated paint job. Do you realize how many good running cars look like they were washed with rocks and look like total trash that dealers STEAL on trade? They will look you in the face and tell you the paint is ruined and there is no way they can retail it, so it's going to auction to 'lose' money or break even. You have to remember that NEW car dealers are a large business, if they are subbing out detailing - they have money. Lots of it. What is $1500-$2000 a week to them sending cars to you, when they are getting an extra 500+ each car at auction after you work your magic? What is 1500-2000 to them when you resurrect a car they stole and they score a 1500 dollar profit on one car, and got 500+ more than usual for each car? Have you ever seen an auction inspection prior to being on the block? Almost the ENTIRE inspection report is based on the condition of the paint.

I did a silver Porsche SUV this week, it was covered in tar, obviously been slammed through a car wash on a regular basis and scraped clean of snow and ice with a brush multiple times. This DIFFERENT Dealer (new client) stole it on trade, asked if we could clean it up, I told him I'd make him puke when it was done. My crew did the interior in 3 hours and I spent 7 on the outside, 2 stage, CG glaze, with Griot Spray wax for $175. Super deal for him. He wholesale'd it to another dealer, called me up to say thanks for the great job and bragged about his profit, then sent us 6 cars, 3 that he requested a 2-3 stage at my normal rate ($100 to turn machines on and $50hr following). One vehicle he sent me was a Lincoln MKZ with 96,000 miles, black, with a passenger door that the clear is peeling off - he asked for a 3 stage buff, he's having the door re-cleared, instead of just sending it to auction as is, taking a bath on the trade - it's covered in swirls and scratches but it'll come out - he'll spend 200 to have it recleared, his investment will be about 600 total and now he has a presentable car to retail. I told him the buffing will run 200-400 on most and he said that's fine. Then the dealer he sold the Porsche to, sent me 2 cars after the referral for polishing.

Walk in and show these guys what you're capable of doing. They've been getting the cheap, AIO or glaze finishes that honestly don't look good or great. They don't understand that you can make many cars look like they just left the factory.
 
I can't edit my post any longer - but I had been given access to the inspection reports from auction. Almost the entire, highly detailed inspection report focuses on the paint condition.

For example, they go around the entire car and it will look like this.

LF fender - 3" scratch in clear. Not down to base. Few 1cm rock chips
Dr Door - Heavy Swirls, several scratches in clear above door handle
Hood - Heavy Swirls, multiple scratches in clear, none in base.
RF fender - no scratches, light swirls.
Lh Quarter - Heavy swirls, dulled paint. Color does not match. Can be polished to match.

Overall condition 6/10. Isn't it common sense that the car will ring the bell for more money if that inspection report shows no swirls, no scratches and a 3-7yr old car is rated an 8/10??


That's just a small sample. They detail every panel, right down to the rockers. So when a dealer tells you reconditioned paint doesn't matter at auction - they're wrong. Prove it to them.
 
A cart with all i need at arms length away and having 2 machines plugged in and ready to go has improved my efficiency quite a bit. To me, improving efficiency means cutting down the time to get what i and the customer wants.
 
Thanks for the info Heckhole.

I used to go to auctions in the northeast - Adesa, SAA, tons of other smaller ones, so I definitely have seen those reports. The first time I read the reports from a Mercedes lease auction I was shocked by how much detail they went into in regards to scratches, dents, repainted panels, etc.

Despite this, the dealers I've ran into always seem to want to spend as little as possible, and even when I've done more extensive work (one or two steps), they still seem to be bewildered that the price is even $20-30 higher. Maybe I've just dealt with some especially bad ones, which is certainly possible.

I'd love to hear some more input from others who have gotten dealers to pay for higher quality detailing. I know that David Fermani has opened up another large shop in Detroit that caters to dealers & the general public, and it seems like (by the posts on his fb page) his employees do a fair amount of correction work, rather than the typical dealer AIO jobs.
 
To help with your question, it seems like you have the right idea with buying or building a cart, keeping it clean and organized and doing things section by section so that you don't have to waste time moving cords, polishers, etc.

Have you tried using a headlamp? I always use one as it keeps you from having to put down the polisher, pick up a work lamp, inspect the paint from different angles, etc etc. I literally just use a cheap ~150 lumen headlamp from Home Depot, but it works well because the beam is focused and the color temp is probably around 4500-5000K, so it shows defects really well (some of higher kelvin ratings are worse, despite being much brighter).
 
My problem is that I don't stop when I should...I do too much for the money! LoL
 
I do dealer work and mobile work for private clients.

Polishing- I get paid $150-$170 for a 2-Stage paint correction. I use glaze on non-dark colored or metallic/pearl cars. I use wax on the black cars. For the two step I use Flex 3401 typically with OJ pad and Menz FG400. Then follow up with Menz 85RD on a gray pad. I also use Megz MF cutting pad if need be.

Correction takes 4-6hrs for a 'quick' buff, like you said. To speed this up I just ordered a Rupes 21 with new 6" pads. I bet you this should shave off at at least an hour or two...
Dealers don't car in a sense but they want a lot for a little($)so they expect and know good work. However, you can cut corners etc and still deliver good work. The wash stage is where you can cut down A LOT of time.

Starting with wheels: Pressure Washer + Meguiars Wheel Brightener. Wheel Brightener is literally one of the best out there. Spray it on the dry wheel, wait a minute, pressure wash it off. Same with APC on tires and wheels.
Washing Paint: Pressure washer + foam cannon. Foam the car with dawn wash soap/APC, use those suds to wash the car. Have you a wash bucket tho for a very occasional rise off. Pressure wash all the soap off.
Clay: NanoSkin AutoScrub the car while it is still wet. Use the hose with a trigger to keep rewetting the paint.
Dry: Leaf blow


I order 2 ULINE supply carts too. I am also concerned on being efficient and profitable with the dealer cars
 
I just got a Uline catolog, never thought to look.

If you're getting 150-170, then your dealer account is aware, they're making money because of your work.

Sunday I spent 7 hours on a black Tahoe that had about 2" of rust on the front fenders down by the rockers. Yes, the dealer had me 2 stage buff this vehicle.

For quick washing & drying, I love using No Rinse. I can completely wash and dry a vehicle in less than 15 minutes. I avoid pressure washers for various reasons, although I understand why people love them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top