Best Finishing Polish

So I have decided to take the jump and order a Flex LK603VVB. I feel like I have out grown the PC, and am looking to take the next step in correction. I have been doing some extensive reading on some very detailed rotary guides and have a few questions:

-How do those of you using rotaries deal with rounded body panels like fenders or curves?

-Should I just use the weight of the polisher for the majority of correction?

Thanks in advance!
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
If you are using a pc then 85rd is your best bet. Like Killr said 205 leaves some on the table, but then again no matter what finishing polish you use with a pc you are still leaving something on the table.
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When you make a statement like that you really have to explain yourself son. What exactly do you mean when you say " no matter what finishing polish you use with a pc you are still leaving something on the table" And would that be true when using a Flex 3401?
 
It means that the fact that the PC cannot utilise 100% of the potential cutting and finishing ability in a polish. This can only be done via a rotory because of the additional heat generated, while making the most effective use of the maximum cutting and finishing ability of these fine polishes.

The Flex 3401 would be a step up from the PC and would come much closer to the abilities of a true rotory because of its forced rotation. But I think that if you have a sound understanding of how a polish breaks down, I'm sure the visible difference is close to negligible.
 
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christian900se said:
So I have decided to take the jump and order a Flex LK603VVB. I feel like I have out grown the PC, and am looking to take the next step in correction. I have been doing some extensive reading on some very detailed rotary guides and have a few questions:

-How do those of you using rotaries deal with rounded body panels like fenders or curves?

-Should I just use the weight of the polisher for the majority of correction?

Thanks in advance!
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You just follow the curves of the body.

Since the Flex is light I would add a little pressure while using it.

unclestu said:
When you make a statement like that you really have to explain yourself son. What exactly do you mean when you say " no matter what finishing polish you use with a pc you are still leaving something on the table" And would that be true when using a Flex 3401?
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I am sorry dad, I was brought up better than that. As Christian explained in his post below that is what I am getting at. The rotary will generate more heat therefore will break the polish down better. I will put it this way, the flex would be inbetween the pc and rotary as far as leaving a finish.

christian900se said:
It means that the fact that the PC cannot utilise 100% of the potential cutting and finishing ability in a polish. This can only be done via a rotory because of the additional heat generated, while making the most effective use of the maximum cutting and finishing ability of these fine polishes.

The Flex 3401 would be a step up from the PC and would come much closer to the abilities of a true rotory because of its forced rotation. But I think that if you have a sound understanding of how a polish breaks down, I'm sure the visible difference is close to negligible.
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I agree with most of that except the Flex part.:dblthumb2: Congrats on stepping up to the rotary.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
You just follow the curves of the body.

Since the Flex is light I would add a little pressure while using it.

I agree with most of that except the Flex part.:dblthumb2: Congrats on stepping up to the rotary.
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Thanks! You helped me out with the confidence and I also saw your show-n-shine posts which had me drooling. I'm hopefully going to have alot more detailing business when I move to Socal after this semester and I already have quite a few detailing orders already for correction so I figure why not. Plus, I'm always looking for achieving better results so I'm excited to step up to a rotary!
 
In my experience... :dig:

The random orbital is VERY capable of delivering a finish on par with or exceeding the rotary.
If I had very little experience with either machine, I would agree that this statement has little merit.

For the non-experienced, the random orbital has many advantages over the rotary (especially the simpler to navigate learning curve).

Heat is not a good thing, nor is it helpful when polishing paint.
If it was, I would preheat my buffing liquids, pads, and use heat lamps when polishing.
Otherwise, I would only polish paint in direct sunlight on hot days.

Heat simply adds another variable to the equation that I would rather not have to deal with. Heat can alter the characteristics of the paint (in the moment). Heat does not necessarily "break down" a polish. It may however "affect" a polish and its characteristics. Heat causes solvents to evaporate at a more rapid rate (petroleum and water based), and it would certainly elevate the temperature of the abrasive particles employed in the buffing liquid (such as the oh-so popular aluminum oxide).

So, those of you that somehow feel that you may be using an inferior machine when using a random orbital (thus seeing a substandard result), don't! :props:

Just points to consider. Not looking for an online fistfight. :bash: A debate that informs, though? I look forward to that!
 
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Last weekend when I was buffing out the 1954 Mercedes-Benz with Nick Chapman and a team of people for an extreme makeover, Nick was working on the front clip using the Flex Lightweight at a very slow RPM, I was tackling the roof using the Griot's Garage ROP on the 6.0 speed setting using a 5.5 Hydro-Tech Cyan pad and later I switched to a Purple Kompressor Pad.

Here's what I noticed, the GG ROP did such a great job of keeping the pad rotating that it was no different from a results point of view except there were no swirls than using a rotary buffer.

I mentioned that in another post here recently and no one picked up on it. :D


There is no one perfect tool for all jobs and all people,
  • There's the the right tool for the job.
  • There's the right tool for the person.
Sometimes they're the same tool, sometimes they're not.


:)
 
All input is welcome Kevin! I guess the only way to find out which will yield better results is to try the rotary and compare to my experience with the PC. I have used alot of different products and techniques on my PC and have got good results but the results I have seen via rotary using the same products have been superior everytime. It is not just me, since many have a similar opinion. This is not to say that the PC is not a capable machine, but I think there are situations where a rotary will out perform it.
 
christian900se said:
This is not to say that the PC is not a capable machine, but I think there are situations where a rotary will out perform it.
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That's a very true statement, and so is the opposite, that is sometimes a PC will outperform a rotary buffer depending upon what you're trying to do.

I would never apply a finishing wax or paint sealant using a rotary buffer but I do this with almost all LSP's I apply and the PC excels at applying LSP's over a rotary buffer.

There are paint systems I've worked on that a rotary will always leave holograms no matter what pad or product combo you use but for these types of paint usually a DA Polisher will leave a swirl free finish.

This is just another reason I always suggest to people to do a Test Spot first with the products, pads and process they're thinking of using over the entire car to just a small section and make sure you can make one small section look GREAT before going over the entire car.

In the above, the word process means how you apply the products, in most cases this would be a machine or your hand.
 
Btw, these are my results on my hood with Power Finish on a CCS white pad followed by 85RD on a CCS blue pad. The rest of the car only needed a hit of 85rd on the blue pad.

Photo0565.jpg

Photo0564.jpg

IMG_1618-2.jpg
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
That's a very true statement, and so is the opposite, that is sometimes a PC will outperform a rotary buffer depending upon what you're trying to do.

In the above, the word process means how you apply the products, in most cases this would be a machine or your hand.
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I agree with that, which is why I am going to appreciate having both types of machines on hand. It will also take me a little while to complete the learning curve of switching to a rotary.

Ps. Unless I am working on a customer's car and need more speed when applying LSPs, I would much rather do it by hand... It allows you to feel your work and the smooth finish you have achieved, plus I have been using boutique waxes mostly so I feel like hand application adds to the experience. ;)
 
christian900se said:
I am always trying to find the best products and techniques to apply to the cars I take care of, and I am thinking about my jeweling polish. Right now, I use PO87mc which is the finest of the Menzerna polishes. But I have been reading up about all the positive experiences with Megs 205. I am basically looking for the best finishing polish to see if I can get that little bit more out of the paints I look after... Well mostly because I want to use it on my car but the rest of the cars are my rational haha.

I tried searching around for topics like this and couldn't find any definitive answers. I am using a PC, so I think that factors into the equation in terms of product compatibility. Thanks for the help!
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I love the M205, but I recently started using the 06068 3M UltraFina SE or Menz85rd to clean up
 
I prefer using the DA a lot of the time when doing daily driver cars, especially for 2-step jobs. I simply feel I can get more correction and still finish down 100% hologram free with the DA. To me that makes more sense than using a rotary and having to do less correction in order to achieve that 100% hologram free finish, even though you may get a better over all gloss. For me, which tool I choose really comes down to what the customer is looking for out of the job.

An example would be like this...customer only wants a 2-step correction...even though it needs 3 or 4.

M105 orange LC/M205 black LC on the DA

vs.

Power Finish white LC/PO85RD blue LC on the rotary

Basically, for a customer with a daily driver I think maximum correction and swirl free is more important than maximum gloss and less correction....as 99% of the customers out there would never know the difference in gloss, but they may notice a scratch or swirl lef behind.

However, When doing major correction, like a 4 step correction job, I will almost always finish with the rotary. Obviously all paints are different and I do agree with Mike that some paints favor different tools....so do the test spot. ;)

Rasky
 
Thanks for all that info! In this case, I am looking for the ultimate finishing ability as far as the quality and sharpness that is produced for the paint. I have gained enough experience to realize that 95% of that is due to the user and technique but I am always looking for that little bit more. ;)

Also, I will be significantly increasing the quantity of cars I am going to be correcting when I move to California at the end of the year so it would be nice to be able to correct more quickly which a rotary will provide with shorter working times by breaking down the polish more quickly. But venturing to a rotary is more for the search of the highest quality finish I can possibly achieve.
 
Have any of you guys bumped into the threads talking about menzerna causing paint swelling do to solvents in the mix? This giving a flawless look to the cars finish for a couple days then some swirls return 3 day sout from polishing? A lot of people chimmed on on this issue on the optimum and autopia boards


Chris
 
Da Fats said:
Have any of you guys bumped into the threads talking about menzerna causing paint swelling do to solvents in the mix? This giving a flawless look to the cars finish for a couple days then some swirls return 3 day sout from polishing? A lot of people chimmed on on this issue on the optimum and autopia boards


Chris
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That is old news. This is were you IPA wipedowns come in. Also this is were you learn what pad will do what. This all comes with practice, knowledge, and experience. Just keeping practicing with your polish and you will be fine.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
That is old news. This is were you IPA wipedowns come in. Also this is were you learn what pad will do what. This all comes with practice, knowledge, and experience. Just keeping practicing with your polish and you will be fine.
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That was probably the single most important step I have started using since I got the hang of polishing. While I achieved the amount of true correction I was looking for most of the time, there were more than a few times where it appeared as if the finish was perfect but an IPA wipedown made me want to cry. (I credit Asphalt for helping me to use IPA)
 
christian900se said:
That was probably the single most important step I have started using since I got the hang of polishing. While I achieved the amount of true correction I was looking for most of the time, there were more than a few times where it appeared as if the finish was perfect but an IPA wipedown made me want to cry. (I credit Asphalt for helping me to use IPA)
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Although I don't have as much experience and only do my personal vehicles, I too have already learned the value of an IPA wipedown. I also give credit to AsphaltRocket and Loudog2 for educating me to this important step!!!
 
christian900se said:
That was probably the single most important step I have started using since I got the hang of polishing. While I achieved the amount of true correction I was looking for most of the time, there were more than a few times where it appeared as if the finish was perfect but an IPA wipedown made me want to cry. (I credit Asphalt for helping me to use IPA)
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trichard said:
Although I don't have as much experience and only do my personal vehicles, I too have already learned the value of an IPA wipedown. I also give credit to AsphaltRocket and Loudog2 for educating me to this important step!!!
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Thanks for the kind words guys, it is a very important step no matter how some people say it isn't. It just makes me happy that I could help someone achieve their polishing goals. As Christian stated if he did not do the ipa wipedown he would have had misery a few weeks down the road. It is better to be safe than sorry, or even worse have to do everything over again unexpectly a couple weeks later.
 
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