better wax

as mentioned earlier the prep work is far more important than the choice of waxes... as with all things, a lesser wax, in the hands of a professional will most likely give a better result, of a good wax in the hands of a beginner... I am a photographer, and 10 people judging waxes side-by-side is like looking at photos, everyone will have their own opinions based on their likes, favorites, and the mood of the day... we humans fall prey, to "the power of suggestion" very easily... EXAMPLE... 10 professionals would easily see a "difference" in two sides of the hood, "IF" they were told two different waxes were used, even if only one wax was used... we take that "suggestion" of a difference, and we "will" find it... it is human nature... and Yes... not to mention, the vehicle being waxed may also "influence" someone's opinion... wink/smile...
 
I trust that we all know that the price one prays for any product, whether over-the-counter or boutique, is set by supply and demand. It would be interesting to learn what it costs the respective companies to make Turtle Wax Super Hard Shell, Meguiar's NXT, Pinnacle Souveran, Dodo Juice Supernatural, and Zymol Vintage. I imagine we would all be surprised.

We usually assume that the more expensive a product is, the more it costs the manufacturer to make; but this is not always the case. Sometimes people are simply willing to pay more for a specific product, even though comparable if not superior products are available for purchase at less cost. Consider how much money are willing to pay for a Monster HDMI cable at Radio Shack, when they could buy a fully functional no-name equivalent through Amazon.com for a quarter of the price. I have always bought Levi's, even though I know that I am paying more for the "name." Heck if I know why I insist on Levi jeans. I just do.

Americans are one of the best examples when it comes to spending money on perineum priced goods, that are not perineum quality. I know this cause its my job to make you guys buy these items :D
 
I trust that we all know that the price one prays for any product, whether over-the-counter or boutique, is set by supply and demand.

I agree. The demand for a superior product will out weigh the demand for a product that simply does not work. You get what you pay for (assuming you have researched all options and can make an educated decision based on fact, not on how much such an item costs)

It would be interesting to learn what it costs the respective companies to make Turtle Wax Super Hard Shell, Meguiar's NXT, Pinnacle Souveran, Dodo Juice Supernatural, and Zymol Vintage.

I am no expert but I would hope "manufacturing costs" would be about the same for any product. What separates the brands should happen well before the manufacturing process. Research and Development and ingredient selection should be where 'real' value is placed. Manufacturing is just putting it all together and should hold little to no value. The value is in what went in to making that product.

I imagine we would all be surprised.

Surprised that manufacturing costs are about the same across the board to make a product? Or surprised that some of the leaders in the industry actually used the same inferior, diluted, non performing ingredients that I can buy locally at 'Wally World'...So you are saying these products are on the same level? So the insane depth and clarity and that deep liquid look I get with DG 105 is just a halucination? That the fact that I have placed my vehicle side by side against the 'supposed' best professional Boutiques aand nd with my own eyes seen the glaring contrast. I went from the supposed best OTC that I knew of (TW Synthetic Ice) to DG, Pinnacle, WG etc and you can say what you want but the difference is night and day. My TW Ice would last 2 to 3 weeks at BEST. Have had DG 105 on for 3 months and it is just as strong as it was from day one.

We usually assume that the more expensive a product is, the more it costs the manufacturer to make; but this is not always the case.

Who assumes this?? Manufactoring is not what makes a product superior. Manufactoring is just a process. I assume the more expensive a product is the higher quality it is. Just like cars. Lexus can charge a premium price over Ford.

Sometimes people are simply willing to pay more for a specific product, even though comparable if not superior products are available for purchase at less cost.

I agree...That just boils down to "If it costs more it must be better" mentality. I know a Lexus costs more than a Gio Storm but seeing as how I know cars I can justify why it does. On that same note it brings me back to the time when a, now leading congac producer went from a low priced Cognac who was suffering steep declining sales, to the number one selling connac in the country. What did they do? They tripled the price. After that they couldn't keep it on the shelves. But that is liquer. People who drink it don't know why one is better than the other so they gauge it on price. Now with car care products most connosuers can tell you exactly why Pinnacle, DG, 4*, WG, Menzerna etc are more expensive (and really not by much) than the OTC products. Its not only an understanding of what goes into them but actual REAL WORLD results. Your eyes don't lie and the fact that water still beads off and sheets off your finish after 3 months isn't illusion. Do some waxes trigger our 'if it costs more it most be better' button. Of course.....but the simple fact still remains...It is nothing short of amazing when put side by side with an inferior OTC product.

Consider how much money are willing to pay for a Monster HDMI cable at Radio Shack, when they could buy a fully functional no-name equivalent through Amazon.com for a quarter of the price.

Again, just consumer laziness. They know this product works and they don't have time to research every single purchase in their life. They'd rather pay knowing it is going to give them what they expect them spend 3 weeks researching every in and out of cables to say 20 or 30 bucks. Depends on where you want to spend your time. Maybe they are spending their time researching something real like a 40K car purchase or a 1.5 million dollar home where making a mistake can cost you thousands. Depends on "your" perspective and what you think is big. Discussing the difference between the $10 difference between Tire Kingdom and Sears for tires may be the biggest thing in your life. To others there perspective is much bigger and they just don't have that kind of time.

I have always bought Levi's, even though I know that I am paying more for the "name." Heck if I know why I insist on Levi jeans. I just do.

Because they work for you. And, no offense, but if you really want to break down Jeans you will find they are average at best. You are paying more? More than what? Walmart? Most jeans don't get into real quality until you hit the $100 mark. Does that matter to a guy wearing Wal mart jeans? Probably not. He's probably as happy as "a pig in sh1t" with his monday night WWE and case of Old Milwaukee :) Again, it comes down to you.;) Not a shot at WWE and wal mart. Just merely an example. Oh, and to Frenchie, the guy that posted an insult at all Americans...

Americans are one of the best examples when it comes to spending money on perineum priced goods, that are not perineum quality. I know this cause its my job to make you guys buy these items :D

I agree 100% with you. That is most of the American society. But the fact that you have the arrogance to come out on an American based site with the majority being American and basically insult them and in not so many words as to call the basically "stupid" is amazing in itself. I am in sales and what I sell is truly superior to the competition and it is priced accordingly. Maybe its just me but I would rather make less money selling a product I knew was superior than marking up a sh1t product and trying to sell it as the best. I am in this for the long run. It doesn't take long before manipulators are exposed. Karma always has a way of coming back on you. So you must be a used car salesman, right? :)
 
Honestly, Mr. Keyboard commando, do you really care about making a point or just hearing the sound of your own voice. If you did a little research you could easily have found out what I do (quick hint, click on my profile name)

As for insulting people, very sure not one person on this board took any offense to it. Well...... maybe you did, at any rate What's your home address, Ill be glad to send you a care package. :)
 
Lowprofile is not the only one who didn't like that comment. But, you have the right to say what you want, it's a forum.
 
Checked your profile...Sorry, I didn't know you were a 'cheese' salesman. Again, my sincere apologies...Says right on the pack they use 4% milk...I feel so used.....
 
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OK, word of caution is in order. I've had a lot to drink, so if the below doesnt make sense or offends anyone... I'm sorry in advance.

What's going on in here? I know that my $20 HDMI cables from NewEgg are better than the $100 HDMI cables from Best Buy, because I know the difference in bandwidth and shielding and the distance the digital signal must travel... and there is no noticeable ghosting or pixelation on my screen.

I know that a Lexus is superior to a Toyota, I used to work there and thats where I learned to detail. But I also know a Lexus is not worth the premium price you pay for it over a Toyota. You still get the same great quality at the expense of a few luxury items that you can easily add aftermarket for less. This is the exact reason why 5 of my last 7 cars have been Subarus.

I know that a $50 can of SSII will outperform a $10 can of Turtle Wax. I have used both and have learned from the experience, but is it really 5x better? Depends where your priorities are. To most people getting a wax & wash at the local car wash every other month is sufficient. To others putting turtle wax on their car twice a year is ok with them. They don't have the eye and passion that those of us here have. When a professional detailer says they use otc products, i chuckle, but i know as long as they and their customers are happy then its ok. In fact, sometimes I envy those that think $10 turtle wax twice a year is sufficient, it reminds me of the 200 hours a year I spend in the garage that could have been better spent. Atleast those guys are turning a profit, how many cars can you detail at $1000 using concours products and several days vs how many can you detail at $100 using otc products in a few hours. If your doing cars for sema great, but jane next door isnt going to see the difference or value.

American marketing thrives on ignorance and the belief that premium quality comes at a premium price. That simply is not true, take a look at Apple or Mercedes. You pay alot for the name and hype, usually for very subpar products. In the end, it is whatever makes you or your customers "feel" happy, no matter how stupid or ignorant they might be. Thats supply and demand. Some people just don't have the time or desire to research products and will just go on the first recomendation they hear or the commercial they liked the best.

Price definately is not everything, Duragloss and Optimum both offer superior products at very resonable prices. Often times their products are just as good or better than higher priced products and will always out perform most over the counter products. Just because something can be purchased at the store down the street though doesnt mean it is poor quality. It means that company has enough resources to market and distribute those products to the masses, if that crap sat on store shelves, they wouldnt carry it for very long.

Megs gets a bad rap because they are otc, but they actually sell some great otc products, and many here swear by and will only use their professional line. I find that I like Optimum polishes and sealants and Pinnacle waxes, of the many products I have bought, these seem to be the best performers for my cars and my wallet. Menz is a line that is highly regarded here, but I have not tried any of their products because I have found what works for me in a price point I am happy with, I cannot stock the full AG catalog.

So in short, is a $175 can of Wolfgang fusion better than a $10 can of turtle wax? Yes! 17.5x better? Probably not! But it's all in the eyes of the purchaser and where thier priorities lie. Since I am on this site, you know where my priorities are (even though $50 for SSII is all I can muster up without my wife killing me).
 
Perhaps someone might be willing to define for us what a "boutique" product means in this context. I know what I think it means, though I might have a difficult time actually stating a definition. I do not, for example, consider Duragloss a boutique detailing line. In fact, here in Roanoke I can buy several of their products over-the-counter. Duragloss products simply are not stocked in as many stores as Turtle Wax or Meguiar's. Is a product considered "boutique" because it is principally sold through the internet? What is it that qualifies a specific wax or polish as "boutique"?
 
OK, word of caution is in order. I've had a lot to drink, so if the below doesnt make sense or offends anyone... I'm sorry in advance.

What's going on in here? I know that my $20 HDMI cables from NewEgg are better than the $100 HDMI cables from Best Buy, because I know the difference in bandwidth and shielding and the distance the digital signal must travel... and there is no noticeable ghosting or pixelation on my screen.

I know that a Lexus is superior to a Toyota, I used to work there and thats where I learned to detail. But I also know a Lexus is not worth the premium price you pay for it over a Toyota. You still get the same great quality at the expense of a few luxury items that you can easily add aftermarket for less. This is the exact reason why 5 of my last 7 cars have been Subarus.

I know that a $50 can of SSII will outperform a $10 can of Turtle Wax. I have used both and have learned from the experience, but is it really 5x better? Depends where your priorities are. To most people getting a wax & wash at the local car wash every other month is sufficient. To others putting turtle wax on their car twice a year is ok with them. They don't have the eye and passion that those of us here have. When a professional detailer says they use otc products, i chuckle, but i know as long as they and their customers are happy then its ok. In fact, sometimes I envy those that think $10 turtle wax twice a year is sufficient, it reminds me of the 200 hours a year I spend in the garage that could have been better spent. Atleast those guys are turning a profit, how many cars can you detail at $1000 using concours products and several days vs how many can you detail at $100 using otc products in a few hours. If your doing cars for sema great, but jane next door isnt going to see the difference or value.

American marketing thrives on ignorance and the belief that premium quality comes at a premium price. That simply is not true, take a look at Apple or Mercedes. You pay alot for the name and hype, usually for very subpar products. In the end, it is whatever makes you or your customers "feel" happy, no matter how stupid or ignorant they might be. Thats supply and demand. Some people just don't have the time or desire to research products and will just go on the first recomendation they hear or the commercial they liked the best.

Price definately is not everything, Duragloss and Optimum both offer superior products at very resonable prices. Often times their products are just as good or better than higher priced products and will always out perform most over the counter products. Just because something can be purchased at the store down the street though doesnt mean it is poor quality. It means that company has enough resources to market and distribute those products to the masses, if that crap sat on store shelves, they wouldnt carry it for very long.

Megs gets a bad rap because they are otc, but they actually sell some great otc products, and many here swear by and will only use their professional line. I find that I like Optimum polishes and sealants and Pinnacle waxes, of the many products I have bought, these seem to be the best performers for my cars and my wallet. Menz is a line that is highly regarded here, but I have not tried any of their products because I have found what works for me in a price point I am happy with, I cannot stock the full AG catalog.

So in short, is a $175 can of Wolfgang fusion better than a $10 can of turtle wax? Yes! 17.5x better? Probably not! But it's all in the eyes of the purchaser and where thier priorities lie. Since I am on this site, you know where my priorities are (even though $50 for SSII is all I can muster up without my wife killing me).

Very well said. I agree with you completely. Hey Lgtspecb, have you read the book "Influence" by Robert Cialdini? If not I highly recommend you do. Will shed some light on why we say "yes" and the 'click, whirl' auto mechanism in all of us. Looks like we got a little off topic but thats what good discusion boards sometimes do. I come from 12 years of bodybuilding discussion boards and moderated a few so I know a good board when I see one. If you can survive in that environment than you can survive anywhere. And to the above poster...I too would like to know what defines a product as "Boutique" or "Premium"? Is Duragloss considered Boutique? Good question.
 
Perhaps someone might be willing to define for us what a "boutique" product means in this context. I know what I think it means, though I might have a difficult time actually stating a definition. I do not, for example, consider Duragloss a boutique detailing line. In fact, here in Roanoke I can buy several of their products over-the-counter. Duragloss products simply are not stocked in as many stores as Turtle Wax or Meguiar's. Is a product considered "boutique" because it is principally sold through the internet? What is it that qualifies a specific wax or polish as "boutique"?

Boutique products are often designed and sold in smaller internet based businesses or locations and not found at mass retail, the word specialty is probably a better definition. If you can find it at Wally World it would not be considered boutique. Now some lines are sold as specials or limited offerings and not necessarily either :D
 
Boutique products are often designed and sold in smaller internet based businesses or locations and not found at mass retail, the word specialty is probably a better definition. If you can find it at Wally World it would not be considered boutique. Now some lines are sold as specials or limited offerings and not necessarily either :D
There were "specialty" or "boutique" products well before the internet, usually distributed directly from the manufacturer or local wholesale distributors. Also, a product doesn't have to be expensive, rare or from a small supplier, but I guess somewhere in there the line between "professional" and "specialty" blurs. Whereas the "consumer" products that we refer to here as "otc" are the bottom of the chain.

To me it means, hand made, high quality, or tested and approved. When the manufacturer can really stand behind their product and say "I know this meets the highest quality guidlines and I use this myself" (and actually mean it).
 
I never thought my question would create such numerous responses. After reading these I'm not sure if I am now educated or more confused. I'm about to decide if a product "floats your boat" then that's the one you will want to use. Thanks for all the input and discussions.
Next question is what about the exterior trim such as running boards, side birror brackets, etc. I don't want a slick finish like Armor All,etc. I want something that will bring the color back without being slick and will last more than two weeks.
Waiting to hear from the pros.
 
Okay, the conversation is getting a little heated with some of the folks so remind me...we're talking about wax, right? Car wax? The conversation's not about the existence of the God particle or the morality of embryonic stem cell research or why the Big 12 sent it's 3 best team to the college football championship team.. we're talking wax!?!
 
I never thought my question would create such numerous responses. After reading these I'm not sure if I am now educated or more confused. I'm about to decide if a product "floats your boat" then that's the one you will want to use. Thanks for all the input and discussions.
Next question is what about the exterior trim such as running boards, side birror brackets, etc. I don't want a slick finish like Armor All,etc. I want something that will bring the color back without being slick and will last more than two weeks.
Waiting to hear from the pros.

My experience has been this:
After using a popular over the counter brand for years, I hated waxing my cars. Trim would turn white and buffing the wax off was a major pain. I had to use so much pressure getting the wax off that I put minor scratches in the paint if it was soft (Honda black).

The first time I tried a "pro" wax I was blown away. The wax went on like butter and buffed off so easily, I actually became addicted to waxing my car. The finish is great too and if layered, the wax lasts a long time.

So, the difference in my opinion is a huge difference in ease of use, lack of fillers that stain trim, and the nicer wax is more expensive, but worth every penny. If you're interested, my favorite wax is Trade Secret from Top of the Line. Great stuff.

Hope that helps.
 
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