Big 3
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flyfishindawg
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- Oct 30, 2008
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It should be good for the detailing business, right?
lgtspecb
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- Jul 14, 2007
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The demise of GM would be a christmas miracle. If they haven't adjusted to the times already and started making safe, economical, reliable, good handling, fuel efficient cars, why is it at the burden of the american tax payers to bail them out? They have had plenty of time to catch up and I am glad to see Toyota surpass them as the worlds #1 auto maker. Closing international plants, discontinuing failing lines, and reducing officer wages should have happened a long time ago. It is not solely the fault of the economy that has caused their stock to plumet to abolute zero worth.
Now I know that that statement will offend many on these forums as Vettes, Mustangs and Vipers are owned by several forum members and detailers. If you like and appreciate your car, that is all that matters, so please take no offense to my personal opinion.
The launch of the 09 CTS-V makes it very apparent that GM has learned nothing over the years.
Now I know that that statement will offend many on these forums as Vettes, Mustangs and Vipers are owned by several forum members and detailers. If you like and appreciate your car, that is all that matters, so please take no offense to my personal opinion.
The launch of the 09 CTS-V makes it very apparent that GM has learned nothing over the years.
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ScottB
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- Mar 3, 2006
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Your comments dont offend me, but I believe they are very very short sighted. (and thats not meant as a slam) The American Automotive Industry owes a significant balance to many americans is debt, stock, wages, retirement, future commitments etc....
If we allow the Big 3 to fail, or more specifically GM currently, there will be a ripple across the heartland of America that will take many years to repair. Alot of companies do business with automakers, and alot still have not been paid. It will shutdown the manufacturing of many businesses great and small almost immediately with future build contracts also. Toyo/Nissan/China are not going to take up their contracts nor need the raw materials when they are in a recession also. These are the very taxpayers for who should make the ultimate decision and can ultimately harm themselves if they dont understand the nature of the request.
The fact is they we are playing eni-meni-minee-mo with who we bail out and how. Lehman .. NO !! AIG ... YES !! GM ...maybe !! Remember Chrysler is a private company now and may or may not deserve help depending on your thoughts versus public company. Remember we already bailed them out once prior in the 80's while public.
I am not saying GM should not trim down, I am not saying divisions wont be lost or combined. I am not saying the unions will not have to make immediate renogiations in contract. There should be a viable and logistical business plan moving forward. They offer safe products , they offer fuel efficent products, they certainly make a greater product than just 5 years ago. They need to build back reputation , offer industry leading sales and service outlets, and they must offer the greatest bang for the buck going forward.
And as for the CTSV --its an industry leading vehicle at its price point. As far as blowing the introduction, I think GM has more worries versus a 60k limited production niche vehicle for which the profit level (leading to capital in which they need infusion) is quite small.
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Wendell Jarvis
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- Aug 5, 2008
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Just like killerwheels stated " veryone is not immine to whats happening in the Auto Industry and economy " Kentucky (Georgetown) is the home of the Toyota Camry in North America...rumor has it that they are talking about a major lay-off, this has never happened in Toyota's history here in Kentucky, they have already let go of all their part time workers. As for the American auto companies its really too bad, poor decisions,wavery products,not changing to more fuel effecient cars and quality, Then you have the money hungry CEO's and Executives requesting Million Dollar Christmas bonuses ( what is that all about? )
I dont' see the Goverment bailing my business out, they made the mess then pay the price !! Hate it for all the employees though, maybe the goverment should buy the companies out and oversee (with a very close eye) on how the business is operated and appoint new management!!
Other countries are also in economical hardship, saw on News China is really suffering right now too...... Maybe as human beings greed has caught up with us and this is the price we are ALL gonna pay?
Wendell Jarvis
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- Aug 5, 2008
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Wow, after I hit the submit button I noticed at the begining my spelling, sorry........I did make it pass the 6th grade.....although I had to repeat it twice.....lol........
94LT1
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- Mar 29, 2008
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I work for a GM dealer and i have to say if they big 3 tank it will absolutely kill the economy.Take the plants and unions out and think about all the dealerships across the country that would shut down leaveing millions jobless.So i do think they need a bailout but they need a better plan.The factory workers make to much, the CEOs need to cut back on there luxaries,Union leaders need there wages cut as well.The factory workers took a pay cut last year and the CEOs are willing to make $1 next year however the union leaders still have there healthy paychecks.Trust me GM has been cutting back.Our Zone rep for 10 yeaars was bought out and they cut back 1/3 of there Zone reps and now the new Zone reps have a much wider area to cover.The cost of living in Detroit and other towns were these factories are at are very high so i can see y the factory workers dont want to have there wages cut again.Unfortunetly the towns were Toyota plants and honda plants are the cost of living is much lower so they can work for lower wages.The benefits are better then those of the Pittsburgh port athority if you dont no make more then drivers in cities like new york and LA.
Since the cut back on amount of cars produced factories came out with a quota of how many cars there aloud to produce.well once they hit the quote the factory stops making cars untill its needed.Well the workers sit at home at make 95% of there pay each month.That needs to be restuctured.Also retired workers still get health benefits after there 65 which makes no sence to me at all because they can go on medicare.So restructuring is deffinetly needed.This country would terribly fail economically if the big 3 close down.
Since the cut back on amount of cars produced factories came out with a quota of how many cars there aloud to produce.well once they hit the quote the factory stops making cars untill its needed.Well the workers sit at home at make 95% of there pay each month.That needs to be restuctured.Also retired workers still get health benefits after there 65 which makes no sence to me at all because they can go on medicare.So restructuring is deffinetly needed.This country would terribly fail economically if the big 3 close down.
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wytstang
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- Apr 29, 2006
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They need to cut there ties with the UAW leaders asap and they NEED new management just as fast. If they continue we are just prolonging the inevitable. It's almost like our future is being held hostage by there success or lack there of. I also believe the government is over stepping there bonds by helping failing companies. The roll of government is not to baby sit them but to pass/deny/uphold laws.
67Customs
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- Jan 29, 2007
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From the trend I am currently seeing, people are starting to realize that they don't need to buy a new car every two years. I have more people wanting me to clean up their cars because they want to keep them. In my opinion, the current trend is helping detailers and may continue into the future.
02CAMSS
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- Jun 5, 2007
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I could not agree with you more!
nrengle
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- Oct 7, 2007
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I have the point out the cost of living where Honda is in Ohio, used to be lower than Detroit. Back when the factories first opened in the late 70's for the bike plant, and then 80 for the auto plant, it was cheap. Since then the area has most assuredly gotten very expensive. I lived not more than 10 minutes from the Marysville Auto plant. When my folks built their house in 1988 it cost $72,000. Now 20 years later that same house is a 350 - 400,000 dollar home. Yes some is due to inflation, but it's also the cost of living went up as the wages went up in the area. So don't give me that argument part of this is due to cost of living differences for geographical locations. They will change and compensate as time goes on.
Also whoever said that retiree's can just go on Medicare. Have you looked at the benefits? Medicare doesn't cover jack compared to a regular health insurance plan. My father will never be able to retire without his benefits. He had a liver transplant just under 2 years ago, and the anti-rejection drugs he's on for the rest of his life are close to $15,000 a month without insurance. Medicare won't cover half the costs if he retires... Besides you put in 25-30 years somewhere, and then be told you're on your own when you'll need things the most. It's wrong...
Also whoever said that retiree's can just go on Medicare. Have you looked at the benefits? Medicare doesn't cover jack compared to a regular health insurance plan. My father will never be able to retire without his benefits. He had a liver transplant just under 2 years ago, and the anti-rejection drugs he's on for the rest of his life are close to $15,000 a month without insurance. Medicare won't cover half the costs if he retires... Besides you put in 25-30 years somewhere, and then be told you're on your own when you'll need things the most. It's wrong...
wytstang
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- Apr 29, 2006
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The problem with that is people think these companies will live forever. Obviously this is a rude awaking for a lot of people. Maybe now folks will learn to save there own money and not depend on companies being there. Kinda like buying a product with a lifetime warranty, will they still be around when you need them? Hell I have stuff from Circuit City that still has 3 yrs of warranty left, they have been closing stores. My nearest one is closing it's doors.
Yes it sucks people are being put in the cross fire, but in less you have a government job I would not count on them for my future. Hell even then I'd still open a ROTH IRA just to be on the safe side.
ScottB
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- Mar 3, 2006
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the thing that most are missing is we can live without a Circuit City or a Best Buy. These items are not as far reaching in our economy and not so far reaching into our manufacturing infact in most cases they are simply a seller (like a dealership) or a reseller (repackaged good). Less dealers can even be a benefit as it reduces competion and could allow for more profit per unit sold. Unless GM slows production, or moves to newer more inventive and current need products, it will however create an overload as it has done.
GM specifically is a 100+ year old company that became the heart of manufacturing in the US. The arteries of this company attach thru veins to almost every industry, charity, and even outside foreign car companies. Its failure would bring a catastrophic hault to the US economy that everyone would feel. If over 1 million US workers were displaced the effects would hit everywhere from the local McDonalds to the richest of specialty businesses.
Nobody wants to bailout this company, but sometimes its for the greater good and trust me you will feel it from your retirement savings thru general consumable goods if we give up on them. Even banruptcy and reorganization can be quite bad as current stock holders, current contractors, current debts, warranties, and more could be cancelled or forgiven under it and thats not good. This will close alot of submanufacturers waiting on their net 30,60,90,120 payments from GM.
While sad to say ... we really dont have any other choice currently so we pay for it now, or we pay for it for years to come. I do think it should be a note to be paid back , or a portion of company is held until repaid and then transferred back.
As for CEO pay ... this is the society we live in. Football and baseball players are paid millions for going to a job most consider fun or a hobby. CEO's are given these salaries and bonus plans from the boards of these companies. Lord knows they could say no. But they want the best of the best (what they consider) and pay to do so. I would personally however suggest an incentive program not tied simply to production but to tangible measurements like customer service, reduced warranty claims, profitability. I can make a million widgets but if I can only give them away, well then I am out the cost of production not any better for it.
GM specifically is a 100+ year old company that became the heart of manufacturing in the US. The arteries of this company attach thru veins to almost every industry, charity, and even outside foreign car companies. Its failure would bring a catastrophic hault to the US economy that everyone would feel. If over 1 million US workers were displaced the effects would hit everywhere from the local McDonalds to the richest of specialty businesses.
Nobody wants to bailout this company, but sometimes its for the greater good and trust me you will feel it from your retirement savings thru general consumable goods if we give up on them. Even banruptcy and reorganization can be quite bad as current stock holders, current contractors, current debts, warranties, and more could be cancelled or forgiven under it and thats not good. This will close alot of submanufacturers waiting on their net 30,60,90,120 payments from GM.
While sad to say ... we really dont have any other choice currently so we pay for it now, or we pay for it for years to come. I do think it should be a note to be paid back , or a portion of company is held until repaid and then transferred back.
As for CEO pay ... this is the society we live in. Football and baseball players are paid millions for going to a job most consider fun or a hobby. CEO's are given these salaries and bonus plans from the boards of these companies. Lord knows they could say no. But they want the best of the best (what they consider) and pay to do so. I would personally however suggest an incentive program not tied simply to production but to tangible measurements like customer service, reduced warranty claims, profitability. I can make a million widgets but if I can only give them away, well then I am out the cost of production not any better for it.
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94LT1
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- Mar 29, 2008
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Yes i have and there benefits are better then what i am getting now.hence were my statement came from.Tons of companies now days have terrible health care and medicare for alot of us is actually and upgrade hence y everyone wants this country wide healthcare system like canada.My co-pays are rediculous compared to most people.Even on generic perscriptions i pay atleast 25+.
:iagree: A lot of people don't realize its not just the auto manufacturers, it will be a massive trickle down to other companies, suppliers etc. CEO pay as you said needs accountability and incentive measures tied to revenues and profitability. None of this ok you ran our company into the ground so on top of your multi million pay and stock options we're going to give you an extra 20mm to leave, no more of the golden parachute bs. Forbes and a few other places did reviews on the best performing CEO's, pretty much the best performing CEO's still doing things in this economy to keep their companies running well, we're paid salaries and stock options no where near what the worst performing CEO's were, of which basically the worst performing CEO's had insane pay, options, and bonuses even though their companies are losing year after year or nothing new has really been implemented etc. They do this once in awhile and its the same results every time.
Agree on the bailout, it shouldn't be a cash infusion and thats it. Make it a note payable back and whatever terms, exactly what happened with Chrysler in the 80's and they actually paid it back sooner although a little different as the k-car saved their behinds as everyone was looking for cheap efficient small cars and they provided so.
nrengle
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- Oct 7, 2007
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Not to be an ass then, but I guess the insurance you had was pretty meh. I will admit the plan that Honda has is pretty highly regarded compared to a lot of companies. $5 co-pays for scripts, $20 for Office, and $50 for ER I think it was it is.
But then again I'd like even crappy health insurance. I haven't had insurance in 10 years... Pay for everything out of pocket and well it sucks.. But I know how to work the system enough now to get some discounts at least. Nothing free, but sometimes get 20 to 50 bucks off, and I call it a deal.
94LT1
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- Mar 29, 2008
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haha your right.my health insurance is bad i no.but apparently what i pay isnt that uncommon.Health insurance costs have gone up and coverage has gone down.Thats y alot of people that are in there 60s continue to work untill medicare kicks in then they actually get a break finally and dont have to pay into something that doesnt give them much back.