Birdie Doo-Doo Damage/Etching

ScottB

ScottB

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Several years ago when I was evaluating a very well known sealant I had noted that when birdie's left their business on my hood that it scared much easier than the carnuabas I was more anamoured with.

Well as is the case, the product faithful attacked in droves that "how dare I suggest that their sealant was prone to damage from scaring" and other items. I was told it was due to the birdies diet ... so berries being more acidic and the such. So I let it be ..... as it could be true.

Last night I was visiting several other detailing sites, and I see several professional and well known members. Almost all agree (well except for the product faithful of course) that sealants do not seem to protect as well as carnuabas when it comes to doo-doo specifically.

So whats your thoughts ?? Keep it civilized as we dont wanna upset anyone or point fingers. But do you see more scaring or polishing needed when protected by a sealant or carnuaba and a birdie unloads on your finish ?? And if so, does that suggest that sealants might not be as PROTECTING to the finish as once thought ??
 
HMMMM......
My car sits out 24/7 under a oak tree, it gets bombed quite abit.
I have 21 on it now.
I could do a test, I have S100 now, so I canl top part of the hood and deck lid and see what happens.
maybe sealant is a "marketing" thingy. Until 21 came along I always used good ol nuba!
 
I would imagine that this is something a chemist could relatively easily confirm. It makes sense to me that a carnuaba would be more "protective" towards bird poop. Afterall, the carnuaba is produced by trees...and I might be going out on a limb here but I do think birds hang out in trees.

Nature is an amazing system of checks and balances and man hasn't come close to reproducing it.
 
emaxxman said:
I would imagine that this is something a chemist could relatively easily confirm. It makes sense to me that a carnuaba would be more "protective" towards bird poop. Afterall, the carnuaba is produced by trees...and I might be going out on a limb here but I do think birds hang out in trees.

Nature is an amazing system of checks and balances and man hasn't come close to reproducing it.
Click to expand...



I like your answer! It's riddled with puns! :p

I've never had a problem with scarring from bird bombs and I always have a carnauba on my car. Granted I inspect my car often for bird bombs and remove them as soon as I see them, but when I remove them they always come right off very easily and I've never seen any kind of scarring or anything like that.
 
kellyinkc said:
HMMMM......
My car sits out 24/7 under a oak tree, it gets bombed quite abit.
I have 21 on it now.
I could do a test, I have S100 now, so I canl top part of the hood and deck lid and see what happens.
maybe sealant is a "marketing" thingy. Until 21 came along I always used good ol nuba!
Click to expand...

21 bird droppings???:eek: :eek: :eek:
If I had 21 bird dropiings I would do something about the birds...;)

KillrWheels, isn't a sealant more durable then carnauba?

I always found the best protection by having 2 coats of a sealant, topped off with a few of carnaubas...If one fail, another should work.

But I have never seen anywhere that a sealant or carnauba guaranteed by a manufacturer to fully protect agains bird droppings. They all say that protection will only slow down the penetrating process, but depending on what a bird ate, it can go through in as little as a couple hours, even with protection. I've never have that happened to my car (thank God). I try to inspect a car finish on a daily basis and remove droppings ASAP.

Big black and white are the most dangerous ones. I hardly ever seen on my my car.
Very little round brown(what I usually get) are not that dangerous.

It is still the best to remove 'em ASAP.
 
Uh, # 21 sealant.... not bird bombs:D
Actually some days there are that many....
I remove then fast.
 
emaxxman said:
I would imagine that this is something a chemist could relatively easily confirm. It makes sense to me that a carnuaba would be more "protective" towards bird poop. Afterall, the carnuaba is produced by trees...and I might be going out on a limb here but I do think birds hang out in trees.

Nature is an amazing system of checks and balances and man hasn't come close to reproducing it.
Click to expand...

LOL! A very punny answer. Clever!
 
killrwheels@autogeek said:
... do you see more scaring or polishing needed when protected by a sealant or carnuaba and a birdie unloads on your finish ?? And if so, does that suggest that sealants might not be as PROTECTING to the finish as once thought ??
Click to expand...

Without a doubt yes.

I use a sealant on my wife's car and no matter if I get to the bird dropping right away or if it sits, it always leaves a mark or etching that needs to be polished out. Now on my truck , I always use a carnauba wax and last week went out to dinner, came home and saw 2 huge silver dollar size bird poops on my hood :mad: . I thought for sure I'd be polishing them out the next day. I used some S&W and a few MF and nothing, there was no sign of any damage on the finish.
 
A guy I work with cut the tree in his yard down because of the birds...
 
Here is where I commented on the same subject a few months back... http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/showthread.php?t=340 right after that I had three bird bomb damages in less than a week, I put down a layer of Natty Blue the end of April and haven't had one damage area. Is this just lucky, I have no idea but it the same tree with the same purple berries and the same purple bombs. Durablilty is another story but protection just maybe in favor of the waxes.... I wish I knew for sure!!!
 
dennish said:
Here is where I commented on the same subject a few months back... http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/showthread.php?t=340 right after that I had three bird bomb damages in less than a week, I put down a layer of Natty Blue the end of April and haven't had one damage area. Is this just lucky, I have no idea but it the same tree with the same purple berries and the same purple bombs. Durablilty is another story but protection just maybe in favor of the waxes.... I wish I knew for sure!!!
Click to expand...

My questions is - what is the point of longer durability if a sealant can't protect against the elements??

I don't mind spending 15 mins applying a coat of carnauba (whenever needed) to bring back the shine and knowing it's protected.
 
blkyukon said:
My questions is - what is the point of longer durability if a sealant can't protect against the elements??

I don't mind spending 15 mins applying a coat of carnauba (whenever needed) to bring back the shine and knowing it's protected.
Click to expand...

And that kind sir is exactly my thoughts. Durability is described commonly as the "length" of protection, not the ability or quality of protection. I am truly intriqued as to "if" carnuaba is actually the better PROTECTANT. Also is a paint sealant truly protecting or just beading for longer periods of time and thus appearing to be protecting the finish ?? Is it better to have the quick drop off a carnuaba which requires reapplication, versus a paint sealant that might not be truly protecting against the elements ??

My other thought is this .... a paint sealant by definition is a synthetic sealant meant to close off your finish or seal it. Carnuaba by scientic (not mine) definition is breathable but provides an inpenetratable surface when wet, yet breathes when in the normal environment. Some say it has no real UV protection naturally, yet how do the leaves and oils fail to evaporate or disenagrate in the forests where it is harvested ??

Inquiring minds would like to know ...
 
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killrwheels@autogeek said:
And that kind sir is exactly my thoughts. Durability is described commonly as the "length" of protection, not the ability or quality of protection. I am truly intriqued as to "if" carnuaba is actually the better PROTECTANT.
Click to expand...

That is why it's a good idea to seal then top with carnauba so you can have the best of both worlds;)
 
FloridaNative said:
I like your answer! It's riddled with puns! :p

I've never had a problem with scarring from bird bombs and I always have a carnauba on my car. Granted I inspect my car often for bird bombs and remove them as soon as I see them, but when I remove them they always come right off very easily and I've never seen any kind of scarring or anything like that.
Click to expand...

I don't have an answer but there is some logic here. In science class, I learned that your stomach acids are strong enough to burn the flesh off of your bones. Now, why doesn't it just burn a hole clear thru your stomach?

It would seem logical that there is a natural chemical reaction occuring between the bird poop acid and carnuaba and this reaction in some ways negates the acidic effects of the poop. It's very possible that the same "chemicals" are not found in most sealants. That's why I stated that a chemist could probably confirm this for sure.

It seams to me that sealants seal out "weather elements" such as rain and UV. I don't see any claims made by any of the sealant manufacturers with regards to poop protection. The fact that the acid is strong enough to eat thru a clearcoat (a catalyzed, heat-cured substance), why would we expect any LSP to protect against it?
 
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