Black Label surface coating, what's going on here?

aim4squirrels

aim4squirrels

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I just spent the last 2 and a half days correcting my Brilliant Black Dodge Challenger. This was a full tilt diva detail inside and out. I hit a ? at the very end, but I'll give you the Full Monty on what went down here:

Wash
Iron X
Clayed

Interior-
Lexol cleaner on the leather seats
Damp microfiber on everything else
Dressed the entire interior with Black Label Leather and Vinyl Coating. Love it! The feel of the seats and steering wheel is amazing. The bottle said it works on the carbon fiber and interior plastics as well, so the whole interior minus the carpets, suede, headliner, and glass got a coating.

Exterior -
Flex 3401
LC 5" hybrid pads
Megs 205 on white pads
Wolfgang Uber Compound (only on pesky tough spots the 205 would not correct, not full panels)
Menzerna SF4500 on red LC finessing pads.

And the finish came out great. Very pleased with the results. Used M34 Final Inspection to check results and remove dust and some Menzerna oils.

I then used a liberal amount of the Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish on a blue flat LC 5.5" pad and hit all exterior surfaces, paint, vinyl, glass, (everything save the trim) and then removed it.

Then I used the Black Label Diamond Surface Coating with a green finger pocket applicator that came in my applicator mega pack.

Using every available light in my garage on Friday evening, I applied the coating and checked for high spots. Finding several, I erred on the side of caution and just went over the entire car with a purple super plush cobra microfiber. Ended just before 7:00 pm.

Here's the ? Part:

Today at noon, I opened the garage door and pulled the car out to look at it and apply the Wolfgang Exterior Trim Sealant. To my sheer horror, there were smudges, smears, and mist droplets everywhere. My heart sank. I kept thinking, "l knew I should have waited until daylight to apply the surface coating. You didn't have enough light in the garage, idiot." Panic grabbed me. I took the gold plush Jr. I had in my hand to clean up the excess trim sealant that inevitably gets on the paint, and I began to wipe at the excess coating on my hood like a madman.

16hrs later, and it still wiped away.

You read that right, the excess Black Label Diamond Surface Coating wiped clean off after 16 hours. I wiped every single smudge, smear, and over spray off the paint after 16 hours.

My only explanation is the temperatures. Yesterday, we had a high of 56 degrees at application time. It went down to 38 overnight, but my garage is never as cold as the outside, and I ran a space heater until midnight. I'd wager a guess that it maybe got to 45 degrees by 6am. Today got up to 67, when I was rubbing down the mistake spots.

So what the heck is going on? A coating can't be that forgiving, can it? And what on earth does that mean for the product that is currently on the car?

I'm pretty sure there is product on the vehicle, it feels unbelievably smooth. Like, "How YOU doin'?" smooth, and there are no smudges when I run my fingers over the paint. Yesterday when wiping off the polishes my microfiber towels would squeak over the paint, but they don't do that over the surface now.

Just need to know if I should be concerned.
 
I would say these coatings act not much differently than many other sealants and waxes, in the respect that weather conditions will effect their application, and cure times.

That probably, the temps you applied the coating was less than optimal. And there may be the effect of relative humidity coming into play as well.

I've seen this with other WOWA products I've used also, like UPGP, WG Liquid Seal, Optimum Opti-Seal. Also have had difficulty with certain sealants also, like Zaino, and even Duragloss 105, which is said to be as easy as pie to use.

I would suspect a longer cure time, and thus, it might mean that you would need to allow a longer time to fully cure before washing, or subjecting the vehicle to rain-water to be safe.

I did my Kia after a wash today, with Ultima Paint Guard Plus (UPGP), and although it was a fair day, not too cold, it did work me a bit more to even, and figure the temps were in the high 50's.
Mark
 
Thanks Mark, I don't have experience with a variety of paint coatings and sealants.

There's no immediate rain in the forecast. The car is garaged for now and doesn't need to be driven until Monday. I may crank up the space heater tomorrow to help it along.
 
I noticed the same on some spots on my car. I think I am going to reapply a second coat in the spring.
 
Subbed for the outcome of this.
I also purchased the Elite kit, because it seem like a very easy process, when compared to other "Coatings"

Also just to contribute my .2cent to the OP.
If i have to guess, i'd assume this Pinnacle coating is some sort of "Sealant that is on steroids." But it is much more liquify compare to traditional sealants?

Because for coatings like OC , CQ , 22ple. The coating will not be removed by simply wiping with a MF Towel. You'd have to polish it off.

PS: Does anyone know, if the Pinnacle Black Label Coating provides any level of scratch resistance?
 
I've found that unlike sealants and waxes, coatings are much more finicky in both application and removal....it takes practice , practice , practice much more so to figure them out.

I honestly don't think coatings are for guys who want a perfect finish or for those who have not tried coatings on cars that are not their pride and joy.

I mean holy cow , you can get incredible results from waxes and sealants that look better and last over 8 months which end up bring polished off long before they expire. I am of the mindset that the coating durability argument for motor heads is a poor argument if not a totally moot point.

I've used coatings and frankly as much as I liked how easy they made maintaining the paint afterwards, I was never satisfied with the look compared to other options.

For my own car I won't be using them again. Even in the worse winters I've never really thought the coatings protected my car any better. Like I said the only benefit I saw was how incredibly easy subsequent washings were after applying the coatings.
 
I have a question for you Fox.
I have always been a coating person, however i have used sealants and wax in the past. But back then i always re-polished my car after a month or 2. And i got tired of polishing, so i started using coatings.

So for say 6 months ago u applied sealant and wax.
And now is time to reapply.
Do you have to polish the entire car again before the fresh layer of sealant and wax?

The thing that frustrates me is that, i have to tape up the car and what not prior to the polishing process, and it always take me forever to tape up the trims / plastics.
I believe that is what keeping me AWAY from using wax and sealant ever again.
 
CarPro coatings are forgiving too. Opti Coat and G|Techniq must be leveled immediately.
 
EvolutionDetail said:
I have a question for you Fox.
I have always been a coating person, however i have used sealants and wax in the past. But back then i always re-polished my car after a month or 2. And i got tired of polishing, so i started using coatings.

So for say 6 months ago u applied sealant and wax.
And now is time to reapply.
Do you have to polish the entire car again before the fresh layer of sealant and wax?

The thing that frustrates me is that, i have to tape up the car and what not prior to the polishing process, and it always take me forever to tape up the trims / plastics.
I believe that is what keeping me AWAY from using wax and sealant ever again.
Click to expand...
Polishing once a month is excessive. A Paint Cleanser or a nano polish wont abrade your clear,
 
Yea, I realize polishing once a month is crazy lol.
Back at that time, i was just getting started with Detailing.
And i purchased SO MUCH products that i want to try them all.
So i polished it once a month to just try all the different products.
But now i don't EVERR plan on doing that craziness.

Now my question is, are there ANY paint cleanser or nano polish can be used without damaging trims / plastics? Because i HATE taping lol
 
EvolutionDetail said:
Subbed for the outcome of this.
I also purchased the Elite kit, because it seem like a very easy process, when compared to other "Coatings"

Also just to contribute my .2cent to the OP.
If i have to guess, i'd assume this Pinnacle coating is some sort of "Sealant that is on steroids." But it is much more liquify compare to traditional sealants?

Because for coatings like OC , CQ , 22ple. The coating will not be removed by simply wiping with a MF Towel. You'd have to polish it off.

PS: Does anyone know, if the Pinnacle Black Label Coating provides any level of scratch resistance?
Click to expand...

It is very liquid, and very much smells of IPA when applying.

As to the scratch resistance, I'd say no. I ran my fingers across the hood tonight just to check the surface, see if it did indeed feel like there was still coating there based on all the descriptions that have been posted up here. Felt a bit of grit and sure enough, there are very fine scratches in those exact spots.

My fault, of course. I should know better than to touch the surface without QDing it after 2 days even if it's in the garage. I wasn't going to introduce moisture just yet knowing I've obviously got some curing issues going on here. The fact remains it scratched just as easily as if there were no coating there. I can always buff it down with the SF4500 and reapply the coating.

Or, perhaps there is no coating there. I'm going to wait quite a while before washing. It's been over 48 hours now since first application, and I definitely applied liberally. The high spots I wiped out 16hrs later attested to that. I certainly hope I didn't take all the coating off when I rubbed out the high spots.

I just want to apply something that will make the upkeep of my car much easier and still look good. With a little kid barely over a year old running around all over the place, I don't have the time to spend 3 hours each weekend washing, waxing, and cleaning the interior. Got to wash it, dry it, and be done. I used the last couple of days of vacation to prep the car for max looks and the plan was to use the coating to lock it in after I got it there.
 
EvolutionDetail said:
Now my question is, are there ANY paint cleanser or nano polish can be used without damaging trims / plastics? Because i HATE taping lol
Click to expand...

2 things,

I have noticed that a fresh dressing or sealant on the trim makes a minor buffer slip clean up much easier.

Also, a strong dilution of IPA takes the polish right off the trim with just a little elbow grease. It makes sense, if you can use it to take the polishing oils off paint, you can use it on trim to do the same. Just be aware it'll leave the trim bare as well.
 
EvolutionDetail said:
Yea, I realize polishing once a month is crazy lol.
Back at that time, i was just getting started with Detailing.
And i purchased SO MUCH products that i want to try them all.
So i polished it once a month to just try all the different products.
But now i don't EVERR plan on doing that craziness.

Now my question is, are there ANY paint cleanser or nano polish can be used without damaging trims / plastics? Because i HATE taping lol
Click to expand...
nano polish?
 
Ok,

Today was the first day my car has been in full sun for the last 2 weeks.

I just had a MOG moment. It looks absolutely fantastic.

I don't know what to say about the black label surface coating yet, but I know as most here do that the prep was the key. On black, the Menzerna SF4500 step was worth the extra 6 hours. So worth it.

No pics, sorry. It's cold guys, real cold today. 16 degrees and negative wind chill ain't how we roll in Texas. Maybe I can snag a garage shot, but it doesn't do the car justice like the sun does.
 
PBL is finicky with temps, at least that's been my experience. Of course I applied when temps was right at 60. I did miss a couple of spots and was able to buff out with mf towel and some work. I applied paint coating to mine and a friends mustang. There's probably only a slight difference between surface and paint coating. One thing for sure, after it cured for at least 16 hours on each car, the surface was super slick. As for scratch resistant, that's a negative! I found out a cat was chillin on my hood, footprints left at the scene, then decided to move and it definitely lost its footing resulting in a scratch on the hood...
 
Alright here's some pics, no comments on how messy the garage is, LOL.

Profile shot:
IMAG0560_zpsddmto0us.jpg


Here's an idea of the metallic flake reacts:
IMAG0566_zpsvre4g6ri.jpg


Here's a few reflection shots:

IMAG0570_zps9k0htz4v.jpg


This really is a reflection of the garage door opener:

IMAG0572_zpsr70sakzz.jpg


IMAG0575_zps6mhaxxfm.jpg


At the gas station:

IMAG0576_zpskhiv95uo.jpg


I need some of these lights!

IMAG0577_zpsbtmqvj4e.jpg


Scratch free=happy me!

IMAG0578_zpsdibngjjf.jpg


It's cold, man.

IMAG0559_zpspkoagnht.jpg
 
That's a beautiful ride man! Love the lines on the challenger, can't wait to see what the cuds looks like...
 
The car looks great.

I think what is going on here is the coating will bond to the paint to a certain extent. But, the chemist designed it to be easy at PBMG, so I think you are able to remove the high spots much much later.

It would be like if you left the lid off a gallon of paint and came back 12 hrs later. The gallon of paint wouldn't be "dry", it's like one big high spot. However, if you paint it thinly on the wall - the wall would be dry. Not a perfect analogy, but that is how I think of it.
 
Thanks for the complements, guys. I appreciate it.

I hope like heck they make the 'Cuda with that 6.2L hellcat that's been rumored before the CAFE laws tighten up in 2015.

The coating thing is fine with me if they made it that user friendly, my concern is that I might have rubbed it off trying to level it. I hope it's a case more like a wax or sealant, where when you put it on there's usually an excess that you remove and everything looks much better.

Time and moisture will tell for sure.
 
Wiped off after sitting overnight? I dunno' 'bout 'dat. :dunno:
Temps I would bet played HUGE into that. I've not done but 3 different paint systems with it, all while it was upper 60's to 70's during the day, nothing lower than mid 50's at night. It noticeably flashed during application.

You said you applied it with the finger pockets, yes? It is my understanding those are for applying the wheel coating, whereas AG would have you use the yellow foam applicator for either the "paint" or "surface" coating. FWIW I think the yellow applicator might indeed have you using twice as much product as you need due to it absorbing so much. I can say however that it is a great deal softer, and MUCH flatter than you'd ever get the finger pockets. ;)

I have tried the foam applicator but I still prefer the CarPro suede cloth like I'd use with Cquartz. Plus the cloth seems to save a TON of product, and goes a long way towards a smoother applicaton. Also, where you can buy 10 4"x4" pieces for $12.99 I buy the 10 16"x16" cloths for $19.99, then cut them with "pinking shears" (zig-zag sissors) and can make ONE HUNDRED SIXTY 4"x4" applicators. :props: I mean 12.5¢ each versus $1.29 each is a no brainer. ;)

I can say that with either of the two above ways to apply I've seen it flash pretty much the same. The foam has a noticeable sqqqqqqqqeeeeeekkkkk going across the paint as well. Where the suede cloth is quite and smooth.

Just thought I'd toss that out there. ;)
 
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