body shop issues

builthatch

builthatch

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this is long, but i appreciate anyone who takes it in to see what's doin'

earlier in the month, a body shop had my car for over a week and a half. i got some rear fender work done on my mazdaspeed3 at a local place that is 'known' for custom paint. i've been in the area forever and have never quite been happy with the body shops in the area, so i figured on a recommendation i'd try this place. it's about 30 minutes from my house...maybe a bit more.

i got the car back (mazda silver sunlight metallic) and in the sun it looked awesome. got i back in the garage and it looks absolutely terrible. looks horrible at night in a parking lot too. in fact, i've never seen a finish leave a shop as bad as this thing looks. the color is awesome; perfect match...really- the metallics, the tint...everything. the problem is there is trash in the paint left and right...little nibs, small fish eyes, dark dirt, bubbles......everywhere! i asked them to refinish the hood, and they painted over tiny chips...not to mention it looks like there is slight road rash alll over the place and there are tons upon tons of fine scratches everywhere. it's an absolute disaster.

to top it off, they missed the flat part of the flare where it meet the bumper cover...it goes flat in shape for a second on the edge. and, on the other side, they somehow made an outward impression in the metal that follows the contour of the flat part of the flare they corrected...it's literally another metal crease that was absolutely, 100% NOT there previously. it looks horrible.

so, my question is, i paid to have this thing done as perfectly as possible. the guy knows i'm picky as i've detailed my exploits in the area, my car is pristine, and he knows i do high end detailing on the side.

i took the thing back immediately and told the young kid shop manager i was realllllly disappointed. he said he understood and asked i bring the car back on tuesday when the owner is back in town. my friend is a PPG paint rep, but formerly worked for BASF/Glasurit and when i described the issues he said that is sound like they just didn't paint the thing with much care, and didn't take the time to try to correct the paint issues.

so, i took the thing back again so the owner could see it and as i expected he was acting as if he was aggravated. of course i know he shouldn't be like that, but i think that he is pissed at himself for underestimating the hours needed to handle this job appropriately, cut some corners, and now is backed into a corner by me because i'm no slouch.

i told the dude that i know money talks and if he honestly underestimated things, to tell me what it'll cost to make it right. i was estimated about 600 dollars more by a competing shop so i know the job is not cheap. this guy charged me 1250+tax :shrugs:

i took the car to a trusted and experienced shop manager local to me and he said that the guy simply did not take the time to complete the job and agreed that typically people don't want to pay the money required to have it done perfect. the problem is this is so far from perfect it's worse than it was going in.

the main problem now isn't necessarily the finish, because he said he'll take care of it (rolls eyes), but it's the ridge above the fender flare where he worked and the corner he cut short while making the flare flat part follow the line into the bumper cover. anyway, the ridge is actually in the panel somehow. whether it was there before (it wasn't) or not is a moot point because i wanted the 1/4's returned to factory condition, so...it's his fault for missing it OR creating it (trust me it was NOT there before)

he said he is going to think about how to handle this properly and told me to bring the car back next monday. this whole episode is just incredible...i can't win down here.

btw, if you are wondering why i didn't take it to the shop where i have the friend as a manager, it's because there they really do production work and he didn't think that i'd want to pay the 1500-1800 it would have cost for it to be done right. little does he know i would have paid that IF it meant the damn thing would be atleast close to factory.

i'm really pissed now. this whole thing is going to take over a month and who knows if it'll be right. i really do not think that this guy will be able to do it right...i think they just don't have the skills or equipment OR care to do it so it looks decent. i just don't trust this guy's ability now, and i'm stuck because he's so deep into the job. it's not like i can dispute the charge on my card for this.....or can i?

what would you all do?
 
If he doesn't make it right or by the way you are saying he is acting I would try and get my money back and take it to your friend. If that doesn't work I would dispute it with your CC. I would just tell him you are going to be up his ass and it might be best that he refunds the money and take it to your friend. This way both of you can cut your losses and move on.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
If he doesn't make it right or by the way you are saying he is acting I would try and get my money back and take it to your friend. If that doesn't work I would dispute it with your CC. I would just tell him you are going to be up his ass and it might be best that he refunds the money and take it to your friend. This way both of you can cut your losses and move on.
Click to expand...

so do you think i should just see what he'll do to remedy this, let him do it and then dispute it if it's not up to snuff?

or, if he wants add'l money, instantly ask him for a refund on what's been done? the reason is...i really don't think if i paid this guy any amount of money that he'd be able to get it right judging by what he did so far, it's just so sloppy.

do you honestly think it's wrong for me to judge this mess in a garage and a parking lot at night? the reason i ask is when i brought it back to him, it was honestly hard to see alot of the paint-specific issues. you could feel many of them simply by running your hands over the paint, but because it was bright out it was hard to see and their shop is well lit with sunlight which seems to mask alot of these issues.

that is what is pushing me toward the idea of circling all of the #### with a china pencil (grease pencil) so they can get a real idea of how crazy this is. i started to evaluate it getting ready to circle stuff and i honestly felt sick to my stomach....there is THAT much wrong.
 
From what I am getting from you is that he isn't happy about redoing anything and you really don't want him doing anything else. I would not pay him anymore money to unfix what he has done. Was it perfectly clear that you wanted the hood stripped down so there was no rock chips, etc. I personally would try to get my money refunded and take it elsewhere. Then again before jumping the gun, see what he says on Monday and then go from there. If he doesn't seem to want to make it right then I would go with what I have said above. If he won't refund the money, get ahold of your CC company and get your money back and start over.
 
i tried to fire some pics and it's just too hard to pickup the stuff, even in macro, etc...alot of it is the color and some of it is my camera (a570 IS P&S)

i will tell you that it's VERY evident in the lines of the overhead lights, or...in a parking lot if you look at the spots with the reflection of the light source on it.

AR, i def made it clear to him i wanted the hood entirely repaired and refinished as i wanted it to look like factory and be flawless.

one thing i didn't consider is maybe him saying he has to think about how to handle this could mean maybe he'll just say listen, i'll refund you and we'll part ways. otherwise, without getting more money from me, he's going to just have to redo what he already did, and on top of that spend even more time de-nibbing it and buffing. what i find interesting is he didn't buff the rear 1/4's or any of the route to the sail panel along the windshield, on both sides. that is all one part so he had to clear that far, but yeah, all they did was spray it and that was it in terms of finishing.

two things scared me when i picked it up. i noticed in the sun there were hella swirls in the hood, and he told me in two weeks to take a towel, use mothers cleaner wax, and buff it off. then, he also told me he didn't see the several inches of solvent pop and 4"x4" spots with scratches underneath the clear from previous repairs on the roof done by yet another shop that boned me. i should have known this was the wrong guy, but he was referred by someone i know well and his personal truck and a car in the shop both looked really good.

this is so frustrating. i always try to do the right thing yet i seem to end up in these situations.
 
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A proper paint is a proper paint, this obviously isn't remotely up to par, and you could probably even convince a non-car-person from a credit card company or insurance company this if it's as bad as you say. From what you're saying, I've had Maaco guys do a better job than that.

All I can say;
GTFO.

Take the money and run to your friend. You'll feel much better, having somebody else fix it.
 
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If he didn't do it the first time what makes you think he can fix his screw up.Get your money back and move on if that doesn't work may have to make some call to the better business bureau
 
the guy did the right thing, i can't believe it.

he called me this morning and offered to either redo it completely, or give my money back.

i told him i really appreciate the offer and i think i'll go the way of the refund.

he said no problem, he said to give him a call toward the end of the week after he makes some deposits and he'll refund me.

thanks everyone for your input and support.

i talked to the owner of this place ..:: Welcome to Concours Autobody.com ::.. and i believe i'm going to give them a shot. they are not remotely close to me but i think it's worth it. my friend who is the local shop manager i spoke of previously told me that i might be better off going really high end to get this done considering what i've been through at this point, and i have to agree : I
 
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Sorry to hear about your experience. I have a Classic Silver Scion xB. I owned it about a month when it was showered with broken glass from an accident that occurred in front of me on the express way. The paint was chipped from the front bumper to the back doors. I made the mistake of taking it to a "Direct Repair" facility recommended by my insurance company. Now, I did get a free loaner from the shop but the work was HORRIBLE! They just sanded the clear, sprayed a blend coat of color and re-cleared. The metallic in the blend areas is FLAT, you can still see about half the chips, under the clear now. Then, there is over spray on my $3,000 rims, my windows, side mirror glass and then to top it all off... there is masking residue mixed with over spray and who knows what on all the door jams and the edges of the doors. I also found a HUMAN HAIR under the clear along with lint. Needless to say I am PI$$ED off. I am taking steps to handle it, but how can a body shop let something like this go? It didn't even have 1,200 miles on it when I took it in. Just goes to show that nobody can care for your car like an Auto Geek!
 
08xB said:
how can a body shop let something like this go? It didn't even have 1,200 miles on it when I took it in. Just goes to show that nobody can care for your car like an Auto Geek!
Click to expand...

that is the thing....i've found it to be especially true around here but you see how most people care for their cars...just take a look at your average parking lot, and note the condition of the vehicles within.

the average body shop is interested in pleasing the average customer. most people only care if it's shiny again without the obvious damage. it is something i can't understand, but people are like that. they just don't look at it close enough, or at the minimum run their hand over the finish when washing it. christ some of the customers don't even wash the car....

i guess the best way to explain is it how wham bam detailers work. now, these are supposed to be people who care about how the car looks, but when you analyse their work you will notice that many times it's BARELY acceptable compared to the ideal standard.

also, body stuff takes an artist's hand. it really does. i'd venture to guess that alot of the people who do this do it because it's a trade, something to do for a living. when the insurance company is paying the bare minimum, the customers have little attention to detail to keep the shops on their toes, and the workers inside only really do what they have to in order to get the paycheck.......it all doesn't add up to much success with people like you and i.

what i don't understand about my guy is i came to him with issues that 95% of the people in the general public would not notice or care about and i wanted him to fix those problems. a custom type job, really. i can't understand what processed in his mind when he saw these minor things and then kicked out a product that was without a doubt worse in EVERY way compared to with what i came in there.

for people like us, the only shops i guess that you can really bank on are shops that repair investment quality vehicles. i told my one friend who is a shop manager that i was refunded and even he said that i might be better off going to a high end place. this concours place was recommended by a friend who is a ferrari salesman at Algar ferrari in PA...he sold several cars to my associate and has been around so i've got faith in him.
 
I am glad to hear you got your money back, looks like you have done more research so the job can be done correctly and to your satisfaction.
 
update:

so after calling this guy and having him tell me to keep calling back, and each time being a mirror of the last, i finally gave up and disputed it with my credit card. i originally called my CC after the 3rd time of him telling me to "call at the end of the week" or next week. they said because he said he would refund me, he had 30 days. well, as of today, it was 30 days so i moved forward with it. it got bad as eventually he hung up on me...twice.

luckily, on the day i was promised the intial refund, i went and got an estimate of what it would take to get this corrected, and I have a super detailed timeline as well final detail of the work the next shop did. I was able to drop my car off to the new shop, my friend's shop, on 6/15 and got it back two days ago. needless to say, they did a PHENOMENAL job, but it's incredible how much work they had to do to reverse/correct what this other numbskull did to my car. for what it's worth, the only stuff they didn't have to take down and respray was the bumper covers, the front fenders, the hatch, the roof and one front door. the resulting work was pristine. they corrected the body work errors perfectly. there was some very fine overspray on the upper surfaces of the car from i guess being in close proximity to some sort of painting process, but it easily was removed with some work with some pinnacle clay bar. looks fantastic under my detail lights.
 
I'm so glad you finally have a repair job worthy of Autogeek quality.

It really sucks when people who don't have a passion for their job attempt it and it ALWAYS shows.

Congratulations on having a pristine car once again :cheers:
 
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