Body work issues, or am I way too picky?

[tguil]

If you move up to anything, just move up to 105. I notice that you are new to detailing. As a "newbie" you might be better off using Meguiar's over the counter products. I an "oldie" and find that Meguiar's Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Compound work very well for me.

So what is the body shop going to do to fix you car? If there are still dents how will they be taken out? How many panels are in need of repair?

I'm not sure of wether or not you are being too picky, but again, be careful with your apparent perfectionism. I say this as a fellow perfectionist. There are a ton of variables that make for a "perfect" repair/repaint. I've had cars and trucks in and out of high quality body shops for over fifty years. Only once did I have a "perfect" repair/repaint done the first time. Sometimes "near perfect" is good enough.

Tom

p.s. Once I traded a perfectly good truck because I couldn't get the perfect repair/repaint that I wanted. A very dumb and quite expensive decision.

 

[k12354]

If you move up to anything, just move up to 105. I notice that you are new to detailing. As a "newbie" you might be better off using Meguiar's over the counter products. I an "oldie" and find that Meguiar's Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Compound work very well for me.

Why would OTC products suit me better than the Mirror Glaze line? I know it's only one product in the line, but I found M205 incredibly easy to work with. My understanding of Megs OTC products is that they are more newbie friendly, but OTC polishes for example contain fillers and don't offer "true correction" the way a light cut polish like M205 can.

So what is the body shop going to do to fix you car? If there are still dents how will they be taken out? How many panels are in need of repair?

I haven't shown the car to the shop manager yet. We have been exchanging emails through this whole ordeal (going on 2 months now). I sent him an email yesterday letting him know I found another small dent after I clayed the hood. No specifics on the repair yet.

I'm not sure of wether or not you are being too picky, but again, be careful with your apparent perfectionism. I say this as a fellow perfectionist. There are a ton of variables that make for a "perfect" repair/repaint. I've had cars and trucks in and out of high quality body shops for over fifty years. Only once did I have a "perfect" repair/repaint done the first time. Sometimes "near perfect" is good enough.

I am a perfectionist, but I don't think I'm being too picky. It would be one thing if the swirls were the only issue. That's far from the case. Following is a brief overview of this shop's ability to screw up:

1. Didn't get out one of the dents all the way until I brought it back and complained (poor QC).
2. Got blue paint on my steering wheel in several places (utter carelessness).
3. Left buffing compound on the edge of the hood after the initial repaint (poor QC).
4. Swirled up my paint that was swirl free when I brought it in, and then tried to tell me I swirled the paint before I brought it in. They repainted the hood and passenger side fender. How could I have swirled a panel that was freshly painted?! I got a blank stare when I asked the shop employee that question.
5. Ignored my specific list of items to check before telling me the car was ready the 2nd time.

Most of these issues have been resolved. All that's left now is the other dent (it's more of a tiny crater in the paint than a dent) and getting rid of the swirl marks.

I've gotten relatively comfortable with the PC and polishes I currently own. The challenge for me looking forward is going to be selecting the right products for the job without removing too much clear coat. It's a shame I should have to worry about how much clear I have left after a fresh repaint, but I do.

 

[Hunter09]

I like the optima in blue. I have one in black .

 

[tguil]

The Mirror Glaze line of products is great. I've used most of them over the years. I agree as far as making corrections they are usually more effective than the OTC products. So if you are comfortable using them ....go for it.

It appears that the body shop really messed up. If indeed there is a "crater" in the paint, more painting will probably be required.
If the "crater" is small, they my try simply sanding it out. There goes a bit more clear coat.

If there are swirls in your passenger side door, the shop may have blended the base coat from the fender into your door and then recleared the whole door. Might want to check on that.

OK.... A recent situation I dealt with. I hit a deer with my 2012 Ram...$5700 damage but only minor sheet metal work. A small dent in the hood and a scratch on the passenger side fender. Sound familiar? The truck looked great when I picked it up. No swirls and super clean. I use one of the best body shops in my area. Noted for quality work. Well, at the first detail and under very good lighting, I noticed that the small dent had not been completely taken out and the there was a sort of strange haze with three tiny pinholes in the clearcoat. Back to the shop. No problem, the owner said they would get in their PDR "magician" to take out the dent and they would sand and polish the hood. When I went to pick up the truck, I talked to the shop owner. The dent had been taken out and the pinholes were gone. However under very good lighting a miniscule bit the haze (dieback) could still be seen. The shop owner did not want to remove any more clearcoat and I agreed. BUT being the perfectionist that I am, I went home and did a bit more buffing and as a result I have some pretty thin clearcoat in a couple of places. Back to the shop. I mentioned this to the shop owner. He smiled when I told him what I had done and said "No problem. If the paint goes bad, we'll repaint it." Sounded fair to me, but still, I plan to apply Opti-Coat as a bit of "insurance". By the way, the shop owner already knew how "picky" I was before his shop did the repair.

By the way my new truck was far from perfect from the factory...79 dust nibs that I leveled and when the repair was being done at the shop, we determined that the whole truck had been through the paint booth twice. The tech doing the repair found two layers of base coat and clear coat

I know that it's hard, but over the years I have found that patience pays off in working with body shop folks. There are a ton of variables that can get in the way of a perfect job. With paint work, temperature, humidity, color of paint, paint prep, paint application and more all enter in.

Good luck and enjoy your Omni. It's a nice looking car.

Tom '

 

[tguil]

Oops ...Optima SX....BIG difference. :doh:

Tom

 

[k12354]

It appears that the body shop really messed up. If indeed there is a "crater" in the paint, more painting will probably be required.
If the "crater" is small, they my try simply sanding it out. There goes a bit more clear coat.

Tell me about it! They certainly did mess up. There are actually two small craters in the hood, not far from one another. You can see one of them in this photo I just snapped, under the reflection of the light:

View attachment 17886

I inspected these craters a little more closely. It looks like they were somehow formed after the paint was applied but before the clear went on. I can see at the edge of the crater where light reflects differently. In other words, the clear coat is not flat in and around the crater.

If there are swirls in your passenger side door, the shop may have blended the base coat from the fender into your door and then recleared the whole door. Might want to check on that.

The body shop swirled the entire car, not just the repainted panels. There are still light scratches (remnants of swirls that were mostly, but not completely, removed by the detail shop) all over the car. I'm hoping these will completely come out with a pass of M205. The hood was my immediate detailing concern with the moderate swirls and holograms. It was ugly before I mostly fixed it. According to the body shop, only my hood was repainted with the passenger side fender being "blended."

My insurance company set up an appointment for me with another body shop tomorrow morning. They are going to inspect my car and make a recommendation on how to proceed. I'm thinking with the craters being under the clear coat, a repaint of the hood will be required. We'll find out tomorrow.

 

[tguil]

Why did you choose this shop in the first place? It appears that your problems involved more than just a bad day. They probably buffed your whole car because of other mess ups....like a ton of overspray. Hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction.

Tom

 

[k12354]

Why did you choose this shop in the first place? It appears that your problems involved more than just a bad day. They probably buffed your whole car because of other mess ups....like a ton of overspray. Hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction.

Tom

A friend of mine recommended them. He said they did a great job on his car. His car is white though. Maybe his paint is swirled too and he just can't see it. He feels bad for recommending this shop now that he knows what I've been through.

I don't think the shop was covering anything up. I didn't see or feel any defects other than the swirl marks when I picked up my car. My guess is the employees just don't pay attention to things like using a dirty rag to dry a car.

 

[k12354]

I took my car to the other body shop today and was greeted by an inspector from my insurance company. We went over the hood and spotted the two “craters” in the paint with little effort. I briefly explained the ordeal with the original body shop and asked what the inspector thought. This is a summary of what he said:

1. He didn’t think the entire hood had been repainted. He claimed he could see the line where the hood was “spot” painted and blended. I told him I could not see any such line. He seemed to think only the passenger side of the hood was repainted.
2. Since the craters are in the driver side of the hood, the inspector claimed that the craters were probably always there and I just didn’t notice them. Really?!
3. Also since the craters were “outside the area covered by the repairs of the comprehensive claim” (i.e. the area that wasn’t repainted, according to the inspector), the insurance company would be unable to cover a hood repaint under my current claim. I would have to file a new claim and pay my deductible if I want to have the hood repaired or repainted.
4. He estimated the repairs would be about $350. My deductible is $500.
5. If the car were his, he said he would just live with the craters.

All of this made sense to me until I confirmed with the manager of the shop that did the body work that the whole hood was repainted! After confirming that the entire hood was repainted, I came to the conclusion that the inspector I met this morning was simply trying to cover for the insurance company so they wouldn’t have to pay to repaint the hood, which is what they previously offered to do. I am meeting with the manager of the original body shop on Friday to see if he’ll work with me to get the craters out.

On another note, I went to the auto detail supply store near my house and asked for their opinion on how I should get the remaining spider web scratches (remnants of the swirl marks) off my hood. I walked out with a microfiber cutting pad and Menzerna FG400. I’ll try that next.

 

[tguil]

You might want to be careful with the microfiber cutting pad and the Menzerna FG 400. It is possible to burn through clear coat with a PC.

About the craters...they could be pinholes/minor solvent pop in the clear coat. That and dieback were the problems with the repaint of the hood on my Ram. (I'm still not 100% satisfied, but will live with it as is. I live in the Midwest. Hail damage is always a major concern. Who knows I may end up with a new hood before the end of the summer. Sure hope not.)

It is possible that the repair was made to your hood, base coat applied to the repair area and blended into the rest of the hood. Then the whole hood was clearcoated. This is a very common repair procedure. You might want the shop manager to give you the written statement of the specific repairs that were made.

Let us know how you come out.

 

[k12354]

You might want to be careful with the microfiber cutting pad and the Menzerna FG 400. It is possible to burn through clear coat with a PC.

Let us know how you come out.

Two things are going to happen before I even consider taking the PC to my paint again:

1) I'm going to show my car to the body shop manager and see what he says about the craters. He may offer to fix them if possible.

2) Circle back with the insurance company and find out what happened with the offer to have my hood repainted elsewhere. I don't want to have to get a repaint, but if something catastrophic happens (such as me burning the clear coat), I'd like to have a free repaint in my back pocket.

Thanks for the input, Tom, and everyone else. I'll update this thread as my situation progresses.

 

[tguil]

Just trying to be helpful. Like I said earlier, I have had more contact with body shops over the past 50 years than I would have liked to have had.

Concerning the insurance company. Remind them that even if the repair was done with a paint blend, the whole hood was painted with clear coat. That's the way repairs are made. The inspector should know and admit that. (The problem with my paint was not in just in an area that received the blend. It was in several parts of the hood. All of the hood was recleared and the solvent problem was in the clear coat.)

If your meeting on Friday is your first face-to-face with the manager, have your ducks in a row. Have a pretty good idea of what you really want done. (In my case I am OK with a repaint sometime in the future if I really need it. The very minor flaws in the repaint of my hood can bee seen only under fluorescent lights when I look through my bifocals with my nose almost to the paint surface. Is that too picky? )

A repaint could turn out worse. On several occasions I went too far with perfectionism and the repaints never were perfect. On these occasions usually three of four attempts were made to make it look right and it never did come out that way. All work was done by very high quality shops. In one case a "restoration" shop. I have had had repaints that turned with no "redo's", but I have had just as many that did not.

Again be assertive with the shop manager, but not demanding. No shop wants a reputation for not satisfying their customers. The shop manager my just offer you a repaint right up-front. Be ready with a response. Might even help to explain that you are a perfectionist and be able to laugh about it. It worked for me. Over the years I have stuck pretty much to one shop. That helps too. Recently I had to change shops. I checked out the one that I ended up choosing very carefully and talked at length with the owner/manager long before I needed to use his services. Might want to think about that too.

Finally if you have a very good color match and a very good "orange peel" match, you might want to just "suck up" the small craters. I'm not sure about the quality of paint on Kia vehicles, but I know that the paint on most of my American vehicles was not all that great. I have had a few repair/repaints that turned out better than factory.

Tom

 

[JLWinter]

Let the paint fully cure and out gas before you do anything besides wash and apply a QD product. The 90 days they now quote is there for a reason. I wouldn't recommend having it repainted again. The shop did a good job, just a bad detail after they were done.

 

[k12354]

Just trying to be helpful. Like I said earlier, I have had more contact with body shops over the past 50 years than I would have liked to have had.

Concerning the insurance company. Remind them that even if the repair was done with a paint blend, the whole hood was painted with clear coat. That's the way repairs are made. The inspector should know and admit that. (The problem with my paint was not in just in an area that received the blend. It was in several parts of the hood. All of the hood was recleared and the solvent problem was in the clear coat.)

If your meeting on Friday is your first face-to-face with the manager, have your ducks in a row. Have a pretty good idea of what you really want done. (In my case I am OK with a repaint sometime in the future if I really need it. The very minor flaws in the repaint of my hood can bee seen only under fluorescent lights when I look through my bifocals with my nose almost to the paint surface. Is that too picky? )

A repaint could turn out worse. On several occasions I went too far with perfectionism and the repaints never were perfect. On these occasions usually three of four attempts were made to make it look right and it never did come out that way. All work was done by very high quality shops. In one case a "restoration" shop. I have had had repaints that turned with no "redo's", but I have had just as many that did not.

Again be assertive with the shop manager, but not demanding. No shop wants a reputation for not satisfying their customers. The shop manager my just offer you a repaint right up-front. Be ready with a response. Might even help to explain that you are a perfectionist and be able to laugh about it. It worked for me. Over the years I have stuck pretty much to one shop. That helps too. Recently I had to change shops. I checked out the one that I ended up choosing very carefully and talked at length with the owner/manager long before I needed to use his services. Might want to think about that too.

Finally if you have a very good color match and a very good "orange peel" match, you might want to just "suck up" the small craters. I'm not sure about the quality of paint on Kia vehicles, but I know that the paint on most of my American vehicles was not all that great. I have had a few repair/repaints that turned out better than factory.

Tom

This will not be my first meeting with the manager. I have been dealing almost exclusively with him since the first time I brought the car back to his shop. He has been very accommodating so far. I plan to show him the damage and explain the following:

1. The craters were not visible until I clayed the hood.

2. The craters are in the base coat, with clear coat applied over them.

3. The previous two points lead me to believe the shop or the detailer left some sort of filler to make the craters less visible and the clay bar removed these fillers.

4. Although I have gotten rid of the holograms/buffer trails and most of the swirl marks, I am not happy that I had to cut clear coat off of a freshly painted panel to fix a poor detailing job by the body shop. I am not confident that I have enough clear coat left to fix any future imperfections it might sustain.

Because of the clear coat issue stated above, I wouldn’t be opposed to a repaint. I understand there is potential for the paint to come out worse than it is now, but the shop did a great job on the match and finish. Now that they know how picky I am and now that I know they are capable of good body work and great paint work, if I politely ask for them not to wash and dry the car when they are done, I figure I should drive away with a near perfect hood next time.

If he doesn’t offer to repaint but he can fix the craters, I think I’d be happy. If that’s the case, I’ll ask if he has a paint thickness gauge to measure how much clear coat is actually left.

I just want the craters gone. Today, I went to lunch with a coworker who has more or less kept up with this whole situation. He noticed how much better my hood looked compared to before I polished it and asked if everything was fixed. I told him I still had two minor imperfections on the hood. Before I could show him where they were, he immediately pointed them out. He is nowhere near as picky with his car as I am with mine. If a non-picky, non-detailing type person like my coworker (or my wife, or my parents, etc.) can spot these craters with minimal effort and inspection time, I don’t feel I am being unreasonable if I ask for them to be removed.

We have already laughed about my fastidiousness. At one point the manager asked what I do for a living. When I told him I am an engineer, he nodded and said, “That makes perfect sense.”

 

[k12354]

Let the paint fully cure and out gas before you do anything besides wash and apply a QD product. The 90 days they now quote is there for a reason. I wouldn't recommend having it repainted again. The shop did a good job, just a bad detail after they were done.

The manager told me to wait 30 days before polishing. To be on the safe side, I waited over 50 days by my count from when I last got the car back from the body shop. I sent him a text message before the weekend I planned to start polishing, just to double check that I had waited long enough. He said I was good to go.

 

[tguil]

K12354,

Sounds like you have your ducks in a row.:dblthumb2:

Tom

 

[k12354]

I met with the body shop manager today and he echoed what the insurance inspector told me earlier this week: the craters are rock chips that were probably always there; apparently I am just now noticing them.

The manager introduced me to his best painter who agreed the craters were rock chips. He said he would not be able to completely eliminate them without repainting, but that he could probably get them looking "about 75% better" by sanding and filling in the chip with clear coat. I'll take any improvement I can get. They both advised against a repaint for reasons which have already been stated in this thread by some of you.

He assured me there is still plenty of clear coat on the hood even after I cut it a bit. He said I shouldn't worry about hitting it with a more aggressive compound like Menzerna FG400.