Buffing threw clear....>???

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Rival

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I have a neighbor who i said i would take a good scratch out of his door. Ive gone at this 5/6 times, using a org. porter cable (12yrs old, or close) and an orange pad + TSR 3.0, than once with a white and TSR 3.0. I dont want to go threw the clear, but this car has never been buffed, the scratch is on the dead middle of the door and i assume or think i would need to make another 2-3 sessions/passes on it to get it out. I do need to press a decent amount because this machine is older, i do have a real buffer (9207) but have yet to take that out.

I was i had a gauge to tell exactly what i was working with, but i do not. I did not wetsand this lil ####### like i should of with some 3500 grit paper.....But i just washed, clayed and went.

Advice....??

I have worked in a body shop for a few years, been serious detailing for about 10/12yrs. But this is a dark red metallic car and i havent buffed a car in a bit because i just bought a house and have had other things taking up my time.

Personally i think there is still a good amount of clear left and i could make 2-3 good passes/sessions on it with a orange pad and pretty aggressive product. But again, just want to know others opinion's. ?????
 
Very risky IMO to sand or buff out scratches on a car you don't own. I would make sure he understands the risks and gives you written permission. Two other considerations. One fill the scratch with clear assuming it's not into the base coat before leveling.

Two is stop by an auto body shop preferably a friendly one that can measure the clear. Without knowing what you are working with it's a shot in the dark. Clear coat is pretty thin, older cars are usually thicker but age wears it thin not to mention the auto car washes it's been through.

My suggestion is if your fingernail catches on the scratch fill it first before leveling it.
 
rmagnus said:
Very risky IMO to sand or buff out scratches on a car you don't own. I would make sure he understands the risks and gives you written permission. Two other considerations. One fill the scratch with clear assuming it's not into the base coat before leveling.

Two is stop by an auto body shop preferably a friendly one that can measure the clear. Without knowing what you are working with it's a shot in the dark. Clear coat is pretty thin, older cars are usually thicker but age wears it thin not to mention the auto car washes it's been through.

My suggestion is if your fingernail catches on the scratch fill it first before leveling it.
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it caught you nail before hand, now it just barely does.....barely

But i already talked to & showed him last night that ive done pretty much all i can and moving any more foward is risky. I did do 1 pass/session with M105 before the TSR 3.0, but that dusted too badly. Ive just never buffed threw clear using a porter cable (my old A$$ one) on flat paint. Edges and corners.....yes.

its a 2012 ford fusion. So its not layered and layered with clear. He also washes it all the time.
 
Being a good neighbor is nice, but you might become a bad neighbor if you damage his car.
Six tries with an orange pad and TSR is pretty aggressive on one spot.
Can you feel the scratch with your finger nail?
 
If you felt it before polishing and now barely..you removed enough clear to strike through.
If I were you, I would surrender.:props:
 
Rsurfer said:
Being a good neighbor is nice, but you might become a bad neighbor if you damage his car.
Six tries with an orange pad and TSR is pretty aggressive on one spot.
Can you feel the scratch with your finger nail?
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it wasnt just one spot. thats the whole door.

I wasnt working in perfect 2 x 2's. But would cut it into qtr's. top left, lower left, top right, lower right. Very slow passes/movements all the time, slightly over lapping while i work. Ive watched and read pretty much every sticky here.

I learned to really buff with a dewalt 849 at a body shop when i was 19, everytime i burned something and it had to be spot fixed 40 bux came out of my check. a year later i bought the porter cable. Im 32 now.


But yes, you can still slightly catch the scratch with your fingernail. barely, but yes. This is why i am asking, because IMHO, its time to stop without a gauge to check. But i really want it gone, so would like other, experienced guys opinion.
 
Rival said:
it wasnt just one spot. thats the whole door.

I wasnt working in perfect 2 x 2's. But would cut it into qtr's. top left, lower left, top right, lower right. Very slow passes/movements all the time, slightly over lapping while i work. Ive watched and read pretty much every sticky here.

I learned to really buff with a dewalt 849 at a body shop when i was 19, everytime i burned something and it had to be spot fixed 40 bux came out of my check. a year later i bought the porter cable. Im 32 now.


But yes, you can still slightly catch the scratch with your fingernail. barely, but yes. This is why i am asking, because IMHO, its time to stop without a gauge to check. But i really want it gone, so would like other, experienced guys opinion.
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Do you really think an experienced detailer will tell you to go for it? An experienced detailer after feeling the scratch was too deep to buff out would have filled, wet sanded and buffed.
 
Rsurfer said:
Do you really think an experienced detailer will tell you to go for it? An experienced detailer after feeling the scratch was too deep to buff out would have filled, wet sanded and buffed.
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thanks..
 
I feel sorry for the next guy in a couple months that doesn't have a paint guage and tries to remove the remains of these scratches. You'll never know what's been done without playing doctor sleuth. At least you know if he asks you to do more work on it in the future. Keep notes or pics in your files.

Removing scratches is a matter of when not if you'll ever get a burn through. Getting impatient is a kiss of death. It's when you keep chasing perfection when it bites you in the butt.
 
i have pics under a halogen light after each session/pass. He smokes cigs, so every few times he'd be outside id pull him over and show him. The whole door though, the specific area isnt buffed a ton, i did the whole door and told him that it wouldnt have as much clear as the rest and it CANT be buffed again.
 
Rival said:
i did the whole door and told him that it wouldnt have as much clear as the rest and it CANT be buffed again.
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That doesn't sound like a very good plan. As others have said, I would stop now. As others have said, perhaps it would have been better to fill this scratch and level it to the surrounding paint, rather than level the surrounding paint (or the whole door) to the depth of the scratch.

BillE said:
Having a brain pause here...what's "TSR"?
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I believe that's Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover.
 
rmagnus said:
I feel sorry for the next guy in a couple months that doesn't have a paint guage and tries to remove the remains of these scratches. You'll never know what's been done without playing doctor sleuth. At least you know if he asks you to do more work on it in the future. Keep notes or pics in your files.

Removing scratches is a matter of when not if you'll ever get a burn through. Getting impatient is a kiss of death. It's when you keep chasing perfection when it bites you in the butt.
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it will be me. ive done all three of their cars, he was just hell bent to get this out after i did well on their other 2 cars.
 
My personal opinion on this is a little bit against the norm, and I do this with customers who I know personally and who will follow what I'm saying...

If the scratch is so bad that the car needs to go to the body shop, you can count on probably a 400-600 dollar bill. If they want, I will detail the whole car (usually with an all in one) and wetsand the scratch out. When I do this I sand a little bit then take a paint thickness reading. Sand a bit more, paint thickness reading, etc. until the scratch is gone. If I'm able to do it successfully, super. I saved them a trip to the body shop and detailed the whole car, all for less money than they would have spent at the body shop. If I burn the clear, I don't charge them and they're in the same exact place they were when they brought the car, headed for a trip to the body shop.
 
ekennett said:
If the scratch is so bad that the car needs to go to the body shop, you can count on probably a 400-600 dollar bill. If they want, I will detail the whole car (usually with an all in one) and wetsand the scratch out. When I do this I sand a little bit then take a paint thickness reading. Sand a bit more, paint thickness reading, etc. until the scratch is gone. If I'm able to do it successfully, super. I saved them a trip to the body shop and detailed the whole car, all for less money than they would have spent at the body shop. If I burn the clear, I don't charge them and they're in the same exact place they were when they brought the car, headed for a trip to the body shop.
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That sounds logical. So are you saying that the OP should continue until the scratch is gone? Or not because he has no PTG?
 
Setec Astronomy said:
That sounds logical. So are you saying that the OP should continue until the scratch is gone? Or not because he has no PTG?
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I guess that would be a judgement call. I like to know how much paint I'm taking off and I have a limit on how far I'm willing to go. Even if you can remove the scratch without burning the clear, you're still compromising the long term durability of the clear coat.
 
I usually tell everyone that shows me noticeable scratches " I can make this less noticeable, I probably can't remove it completely" If they understand that then I give it a shot. Normally on a rotary I keep the speed relatively slow, and pick up speed after I get a better feel for the clear coat hardness. I'll make 5-6 passes with a cutting pad, and a fairly aggressive product before polishing it out. What ever it looks like after these 5-6 passes is normally good enough. It's either gone completely, or any white sharp lines have been rounded off, and it's only noticeable from a few feet away. This usually makes people happy. If not "Sorry buddy it needs to be repainted". If I were in your situation and he wants you to make another attempt I'd use a less aggressive polish that you have in your arsenal, and a medium cut pad and just give it a few more wipes. Show a good effort, and tell him if he wants it any better than that he's going to need to have it repainted. The main issue is from what i've seen on my own stuff from my earlier years of starting out with the buffer if you completely remove these scratches it'll look GREAT right now, but if they don't keep it sealed and clean a few sap spots, and a couple specks of bird poop sitting in the sun is all it'll take to make that clear coat start to blister up. You don't want to be liable for that.
 
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