Calling all Experts!!! Dealer installed RIDS!!!

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DarkSideIS

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Hey Guys, Im new to the forum and unfortunately I have come here to ask for advice on how to get out dealer installed RIDS.

Short story is I took my Black Sapphire Metallic 2011 BMW 335is in for regular maintenance and with that you receive a complimentary car wash.

Well do to our very brutal winter in the north east a lot of salt and sand has been thrown on the roads and the brushes and wraps in the car wash must of been saturated in sand and small rocks because there is easily 5-10 RIDS on each panel and they are all in one direction in a sweeping motion.

Im not one to complain in this situation because I am not 100% sure that's how I got them but Im pretty sure it is the cause.

A little background on me, Ive been in the autobody industry for about 10 years now. Im good with a rotary buffer on the clearcoat we use in the shop. Unfortunately the products that work best for us in the shop did not fair so good for me on the hard paint of the BMW.

I asked the sales man that comes to us what products I should use. Im on a budget so spending 2-300$ on compounds polishes swirl removers sealants and waxes was out of the question.

He knows I have a Griots Garage 6" polisher so he advised me to pick up buff and shine microfiber cutting and polishing pads. The products he can get for me are all sample bottle sized 8-12oz bottles which consisted of

1. Meguiars M105 Ultra cut compound
2. Meguiars M205 Ultra finishing polish
3. Meguiars M7 Show Car Glaze
4. Meguiars M21 Synthetic sealant 2.0
5. Meguiars Hi Tech Yellow Wax

He told me to use these products in this order with pads in accordance to my satisfaction as far as production and ease of use.

I also have Lake country ccs pads ranging from yellow (Heavy Cut) down to black(finishing) The products are all very reasonably priced and in my budget and I feel they should do the trick.

Do you guys recommend these products would satisfy my needs? Keep in mind Im in the auto body industry, I know how to look a paint to spot the smallest of defects but im not in the detailing aspect of it, So working on factory hard paint is not my cup o tea.

Thank Guys!

Feed back please
 
Those are great products. Ease of use is another story. M105 is an outstanding compound that is one of the more agressive ones out there, however it is far from easy to use.

You might consider Wolfgang Uber compound or some from the Menzerna line.

If they are RIDS, they might not be able to be completely removed, just diminished some.

Once you finish the compounding and polishing, you can follow it up with any protection you like. Do not be stuck on the Meguiars options above.

I would take the car back to the dealer and see if you can get them to fix it or at least accept responsibility.
 
DarkSideIS said:
Short story is I took my Black Sapphire Metallic 2011 BMW 335is in for regular maintenance and with that you receive a complimentary car wash.
Click to expand...


Why am I not surprised...


Just last Friday we had another new member, a person that joined the AGO forum to get help just like you. He's having a similar problem, that is scratches caused by the dealership.

Here's their thread...


Dealership hurt my black paint


Never let a dealership wash or detail your car. It always ends up as a sad story on a forum like this...


:dunno:
 
Here's what I posted in the other person's thread... applies to you too....



Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


The majority of cars being manufactured today and starting since the 1980's use what's called a basecoat/clearcoat paint system. With this system, a clear layer of paint is sprayed over the top of the basecoat which is also the color coat or the layer of paint that has pigment in it. If the car has a metallic finish then the metallic flakes are also in the basecoat.

The basecoat doesn't offer any gloss or shine and in fact it's dull or matte looking after it's sprayed. The basecoat gets it's gloss, shine, depth and reflectivity by the spraying of the clearcoat layer of paint over the top of it. This is why if a person removes too much clearcoat when buffing and they expose the basecoat it will appear to be a dull round or oval spot on a body panel. The part of the paint system that adds beauty has been removed revealing the dull or matte basecoat layer of paint.



Just how thin is the clear layer of paint on a factory paint job?

The factory clearcoat on a new or modern car measures approximately 2 mils thin.

The average post-it not is around 3 mils thin.

watermark.php



What does this mean?

This means the factory clearcoat on a new or modern car is thinner than a post-it note.

The next time you have a post-it note in front of you, feel a single post-it note between your fingers. Like this...

watermark.php




This experience will drive home the point as to just how thin the clear layer of paint is on modern car with a factory paint job.

It should also drive home the importance of using the least aggressive pad, product and even tools to get the job done.

When I say, get the job done, the context of this usually means someone is buffing out a car to remove paint defects like swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation to make the paint and thus the car look better.

By using the least aggressive products you "get the job done" while leaving the most paint on the car to it will last over the mechanical service life of the car.

If you're working on your own cars and you're reading this you're already ahead of the game by reading the AGO forum and probably being a member so you can ask questions and get help.

If you're working on customer's cars take a professional approach as a service to your customers.


If you're reading this and you're going to do the work yourself or hire a detailer then do some research and make sure you hire a detailer that knows this type of stuff because the factory clearcoat on your car is thin.


:)
 
Besides all of the above...

Since you have a Griot's DA Polisher and know how to use a rotary buffer, then machine compound the entire car or the affected panels using the Griot's.

Then inspect.

Any scratch that remains after the initial compounding is truly a random isolated deeper scratch and you have a few options to remove it.

1. Buff longer with the Griot's.

2. Re-compound using the rotary buffer.


3. Hand sand like I show in the article below and then re-compound, polish and wax

RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips


4. Machine sand like I show in the article below and then re-compound, polish and wax

Rupes TA50 wet sanding out RIDS on COPO Camaro

Or this article

Rupes TA50 Removing RIDS


If at anytime you turn your buffer over during the compounding step and see black paint on your buffing pad... this is a bad sign....


:)
 
One thing I notice with dealerships is that, the wash is complimentary, they're not charging for it...thus, they can't be expected to treat your "baby" like a detailer who you're paying hundereds of dollars to detail, it's in and out...next please.

I work at a Mercedes/Volvo store in the parts dept and the crap I see on a daily basis, I wouldn't wash my Toro mower with what they use. Please, if you care about your car and you're not a lease pony(who just leases and doesn't give a sh*t, because in 2-3 years you're giving it back anyway), don't have the dealer wash/vacuum your car.

I always found it interesting that people are willing to pay hundreds or thousands for proper detailing, but yet complain when the dealer washes the car for free. Make up a sign on your PC that says "DO NOT WASH, DO NOT CLEAN, DO NOT VACUUM" and put it on the steering wheel. Tell the SERVICE ADVISOR to create an extra job line and specifically state, DO NOT WASH, DO NOT CLEAN, DO NOT VACUUM; don't sign the repair order until that is present.

I hear quite often "the money I paid for this car, they better clean it right"...but you have to remember you may have paid a lot of whatever you drive, but that money stayed in the sales dept and has NO bearing on the service dept, much less the car wash staff. You may have paid $100k for your Mercedes, but the guy washing the cars makes $9.00/hr, get it. Now unless the sales person, sales manager, general manager, dealer principle or owner want to come in the back and wash your car...since they're the ones who made all the cash off you, you're better off not letting the guy making $9.00 wash your car :xyxthumbs:

All kidding aside, the service dept's feeling won't be hurt by you not wanting them to clean your car, so don't let them!
 
The product list looks pretty reasonable.

If those are free samples, I'd say go for it. If not, an alternative to 105 and 205 are their consumer grade cousins: Meguiars Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Compound. I found them very easy to use and a great learning platform. They can be found here and just about any auto parts or big box stores.

You might want to search here for Mike Phillips comments regarding the #7 glaze. It seems to have a pretty specific use, that might not serve you well in your situation.
 
Thanks guys! Really appreciate all the input! What I'm going to do is hit the visibly deeper scratches with the m105 on the rotary with a yellow foam or wool pad then go over the whole car with m105 on the griots with the buff and shine cutting pad then m205 on the griot With a buff and shine polishing pad. Do you think this technique will take care of any swirls left behind by the rotary? I tried a spot using the rotary with a wool pad and our meguiars diamond cut compound:eek::eek: and it cut out the scratch but I could not get it to polish out the swirls. I was using the rotary with a blue foam pad and 3m 05996 machine polish. These are the products we use in the shop that work on the clear we use.
 
You can skip M7. The rest of the products are fine. M21/M26 is a nice combo.
 
Lots of great feedback given by other members.

If by chance you decide to try out a different compound/polish than what you have available you may want to pick up the Wolfgang lineup. You can get started with these four quality products under your $200 limit.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74198-wolfgang-four.html

Like you mentioned on having body shop experience and rotary use, I too know what you mean by what works on the paint sprayed in booth compared to what is on your BMW. While your 3M stuff works ok in that scenario is not working on your BMW.

This also happened to me with the 3M and Meguiar's stuff on both of my jet black BMW's. (07 e90 335i & 11 e91 328i). Only Menzerna compounds/polishes touch my paint (my preference) after many trials with other products. After all, Menzerna supplies the major German auto manufacturers with products on the assembly line...
 
Mike@DedicatedPerfection said:
Lots of great feedback given by other members.

If by chance you decide to try out a different compound/polish than what you have available you may want to pick up the Wolfgang lineup. You can get started with these four quality products under your $200 limit.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/74198-wolfgang-four.html

Like you mentioned on having body shop experience and rotary use, I too know what you mean by what works on the paint sprayed in booth compared to what is on your BMW. While your 3M stuff works ok in that scenario is not working on your BMW.

This also happened to me with the 3M and Meguiar's stuff on both of my jet black BMW's. (07 e90 335i & 11 e91 328i). Only Menzerna compounds/polishes touch my paint (my preference) after many trials with other products. After all, Menzerna supplies the major German auto manufacturers with products on the assembly line...
Click to expand...

I appreciate your input and not surprised to hear that I'm not the only one that had trouble with BMW paint. It is next to impossible to get it to finish up good using what I'm used to using. I did look into Wolfgang and menzerna and I just couldn't justify spending that much right now on products. They would of easily totalled 5-6 times what I'm spending on the meguiars products in corresponding chemicals. Don't get me wrong, I believe they work but right now they are not in the cards for me. Later on down the road maybe little by little ill build up my arsenal but right now I think and hope the meguiars line will do me good. I will definitely keep you guys posted on the outcome. I should have the products in tomorrow but probably won't be able to work on the car until next weekend. Thanks again guy's!
 
I just seen the swirls on my 2015 4Runner. I am not sure if it happened last October when they prepped it for me when I picked it up (it was raining that day) or last week it was in the body shop (someone clipped the rear drivers side, not too bad and my insurance covered it). They washed and cleaned my vehicle before I picked it up. Right rear fender is really bad, but also saw swirls on the hood and front fender. Really noticeable in sunlight. It's going in for 5000 mile checkup in two weeks and they are going to check it out first. I am personal friend of the service manager, so we will see. Oh by the way, the color is Metallic dark blue so the swirls really show up.
 
sdumontsr said:
I just seen the swirls on my 2015 4Runner. I am not sure if it happened last October when they prepped it for me when I picked it up (it was raining that day) or last week it was in the body shop (someone clipped the rear drivers side, not too bad and my insurance covered it). They washed and cleaned my vehicle before I picked it up. Right rear fender is really bad, but also saw swirls on the hood and front fender.
Click to expand...

Since this was your first post to our forum....

Welcome to AutogeekOnline! :welcome:


As for the swirls in your brand new 2015 4Runnner.... that's normal for dealerships but it's also normal for clearcoat paints.

See my article here,


Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive



sdumontsr said:
Really noticeable in sunlight. It's going in for 5000 mile checkup in two weeks and they are going to check it out first. I am personal friend of the service manager, so we will see.

Oh by the way, the color is Metallic dark blue so the swirls really show up.
Click to expand...

The good news for you is that S-L-O-W-L-Y the detailing methods as a handful of dealerships are improving. My guess is it's due to pressure form forums like this educating the new car customer base.

One thing for sure, if it wasn't for education on the topic of proper paint care the dealerships would stick to the old ways using rotary buffers with wool pads on brand new cars and then tell their customers... that's how it's supposed to look.

If the detailer's in your buddy's dealership are not using foam pads and dual action polishers, or something like the Meguiar's Microfiber DA Correction System then they are behind the times.

I'd read this...

DON'T WASH CAR !!!!!!!!!!!


And maybe share this thread with your buddy. The big picture is it's actually just as easy to do GREAT work as it is to do hack work. I prove this all the time by teaching kids, ladies and elderly gentlemen how to use a simple dual action polisher.



It's not that hard...


Note these people are not just "learning" on daily drivers aka new cars, they're learning on someone's "toys" or Special Interest Vehicles. More risk for me, more fun for them...



In the below live broadcast I show a 15 year old boy how to machine polish

Live Broadcast Video - 1965 Plymouth Valiant - Extreme Makeover

1965Plymouth034.jpg





And in this one I show a 21 year old girl how to machine polish

Video & Pictures: 1965 Fastback Mustang - Gtechniq EXO Show Car Makeover!

Trista working with the rest of the team to machine polish this 1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2
TristaBuffingFortheFirstTime001.jpg



Trista removing swirls on a show car...
TristaBuffingFortheFirstTime002.jpg




And in this one I show a 80 year old man and a young lady and here boyfriend how to machine polish for their first time...

Video and Pictures - Two 1967 Camaro's - Show Car Makeovers!


CamaroNight001.jpg


CamaroNight002.jpg



PLUS you have everyone on this forum to help you along the way...

:)
 
The only thing I would add is that you might be better off with buff and shine foam pads over microfibers. The griots polisher might have a hard time keeping those microfibers pads rotating since they are so thick. Mark your backing plate!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
New to the forum and to this level of detailing, and now I have a question after seeing the info above on how thin the clearcoat is. I detailed my black Miata using a DA polisher for the 1st time the other day. Per the AG tech's rec's after I asked for very safe products to start with, I used a white LC pad, and Megs 205. I'm very happy with the results. The RIDS remained however. I was also sent a sample of Uber Compound 3.0, and used it to try to remove a couple of patches of scratches (approx. 6" square, I think thanks to a cat). I removed more of them, but there are still several I would like to remove. I ordered an orange pad and more UC 3.0 figuring I will work the areas again. BUT now I am concerned about cutting through to the base coat if I work these areas too much more. With the above described procedures, should this be a concern? And - we plan on keeping this vehicle for quite a while, so is doing a Megs 205 polishing say once a year going to be a problem? Maybe I am worrying too much about this?
 
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