Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?



Yesterday our forum member weecho asked in my thread here,

hi there, i was wondering why did you don´t use flex 3401 with the 3M trizact system ?

Because that question comes up from time to time I wrote my answer to him in a way it could also be used as a standalone article...


So for anyone that's ever wondered the same question... here you go...


Great question!


You know I've never tried using the Flex 3401 for dampsanding but my thoughts were it might be too aggressive. If it's too aggressive you could potentially remove too much paint to quickly. That's not a good thing for paint that normally trends on the thin side to start with except for custom applications.


So... let's see if it works...


Here's one of my black demo hoods and I've sanded it down using #3000 Trizact on a Flex 3401 using clean water with a drop or two of car wash soap.

On the left I sanded at the 1 speed setting and on the right I sanded on the 6 speed setting

Scalloping
The arc looking pattern I call scalloping and this is where the sanding disc appears to be digging in or biting in deeper throughout the oscillation movement of the polisher.
In person, the scalloping pattern looks deeper or more aggressive on the high speed side.

Below on the right side of the panel is the section I sanded using the high speed setting.

Below is the low speed side...

Right side

Left Side

Below
M101 Foam Cut Compound with a 6.5" LC Wool Cutting pad on a Flex PE14

Below
After cutting I re-polished using same tool and compound but switched to a 6.5" Hybrid pad.

Results

Question: Does the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

Answer: Yes.



My comments...
Would I use it to sand down a car? Not as long as I had a PC type DA Polisher available or a air powered orbital sander. Just too aggressive feeling for my risk taking level.


Great question, glad you asked.

 

[FUNX650]

Thanks for this article Mike. rops:

Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand? ~ weecho


Question: Does the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

Answer: Yes.



My comments...
Would I use it to sand down a car? Not as long as I had a PC type DA Polisher available or a air powered orbital sander. Just too aggressive feeling for my risk taking level.

Question:

Except for, as you say:

...custom applications.

Would you still not ever "wet-sand" a factory baked-on BC/CC paint system...
No matter the available "type of polisher"?

Thanks.



Bob

 

[RLucky82]

Thanks for this article Mike. rops:


Question:

Except for, as you say:


Would you still not ever "wet-sand" a factory baked-on BC/CC paint system...
No matter the available "type of polisher"?

Thanks.



Bob

I'm betting he would use a paint thickness gauge before he makes considerations to which tool and/or if any tool can be used for sanding on any given paint system.

 

[FUNX650]

I'm betting he would use a paint thickness gauge before he makes considerations to which tool and/or if any tool can be used for sanding on any given paint system.

I'm betting that:

Irregardless of the: EPTG-readings, on any (all) given factory-paint-kitchen: applied & cured BC/CC paint-system...
Mr. Phillips will say (and I'll paraphrase):

'NO...I'll leave that wet-sanding task to someone else'!


Here's hoping Mike will chime in!




Bob

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for this article Mike. rops:


Question:

Except for, as you say:


Would you still not ever "wet-sand" a factory baked-on BC/CC paint system...
No matter the available "type of polisher"?

Thanks.



Bob

If I read you're question right the answer is "no".

A factory finish is too thin to use what in my opinion would be too aggressive of a sander. I'm not even comfortable sanding factory finishes with less aggressive tools. Besides the risk involved you want as much clear on your car as possible to hold up over the service life of the car.

As for custom applications... that would be like the Cutlass I sanded down last weekend where they sprayed plenty of clear to start with and then I sanded it to flatten the initial paint down in preparation for more paint. That's the custom application I was talking about.

Even still, I would prefer to use a less aggressive tool.

 

[rmagnus]

Interesting. I don't think I would have ever considered wet sanding with a 3401. At low speed it appeared to do a very good job. Somebody is thinking outside the box.

Thanks for the demonstration Mike.

 

[FUNX650]

If I read you're question right the answer is "no".

A factory finish is too thin to use what in my opinion would be too aggressive of a sander. I'm not even comfortable sanding factory finishes with less aggressive tools. Besides the risk involved you want as much clear on your car as possible to hold up over the service life of the car.

As for custom applications... that would be like the Cutlass I sanded down last weekend where they sprayed plenty of clear to start with and then I sanded it to flatten the initial paint down in preparation for more paint. That's the custom application I was talking about.

Even still, I would prefer to use a less aggressive tool.

Thanks, Mike, for your response...

I can honestly say that I am more than pleased
with what I have read in your above post!



Bob

 

[zckid]

Thanks for the review Mike :xyxthumbs:

I have one question though.

I have a friend having a Land Rover Challenger. He had it resprayed in December last and it's full of orange peel, dust nibs, dips and runs. He wanted to have the paint corrected on his truck.

I asked him to wait 3 - 4 months. Now i'm in school holidays for 2 weeks. I want to correct it before school resumes.

I'd like to know whether on resprayed panels, dampsanding with the Flex will be less riskier?

I've heard that here in Mauritius Abralon pads are available. if I proceed, it will be 2000, (then 3000 if needed ) and 4000 grit on speed 1.

What would be your thoughts on this?

(To add, I have Carpro denim and velvet pads in my order, just waiting for some friends who will add their products detailing-wise to save on shipping)

many thanks

Zaid

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'd like to know whether on resprayed panels, dampsanding with the Flex will be less riskier?

I've heard that here in Mauritius Abralon pads are available. if I proceed, it will be 2000, (then 3000 if needed ) and 4000 grit on speed 1.

What would be your thoughts on this?


many thanks

Zaid

My thoughts are the same as I posted above for Trizact or Meguiar's Unigrit discs and that is,

Will the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

"yes"


Would I do it? Not if I can get my hands on any other type of DA Polisher, electric or air powered.

The forced rotation, 8mm stroke scallops the paint like I show in the pictures above. This means it's taking paint off un-evenly.

If you know for a fact that the painter is going to put on extra paint so you have PLENTY OF FILM BUILD to work with then go for it.

If I were in your shoes and I knew for a fact I had a lot of film build I'd much rather prefer to machine sand than hand sand. The #3000 and #4000 Abralon will be pretty safe for sure. It's the lower grit discs with thin paint I would be cautious with...

And keep in mind...

• Sanding, multiple times, removes paint.
• Compounding remove paint
• Polishing remove paint

What you don't want to do is encounter a whoops! at anytime time during any of the above steps...


Good luck and start a new/dedicated thread with your results and some pictures.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[zckid]

My thoughts are the same as I posted above for Trizact or Meguiar's Unigrit discs and that is,

Will the Flex 3401 work to machine wetsand?

"yes"


Would I do it? Not if I can get my hands on any other type of DA Polisher, electric or air powered.

The forced rotation, 8mm stroke scallops the paint like I show in the pictures above. This means it's taking paint off un-evenly.

If you know for a fact that the painter is going to put on extra paint so you have PLENTY OF FILM BUILD to work with then go for it.

If I were in your shoes and I knew for a fact I had a lot of film build I'd much rather prefer to machine sand than hand sand. The #3000 and #4000 Abralon will be pretty safe for sure. It's the lower grit discs with thin paint I would be cautious with...

And keep in mind...

• Sanding, multiple times, removes paint.
• Compounding remove paint
• Polishing remove paint

What you don't want to do is encounter a whoops! at anytime time during any of the above steps...


Good luck and start a new/dedicated thread with your results and some pictures.


:xyxthumbs:

thanks a lot for your kind reply and detailed explanation Mike :dblthumb2:

I've used the Carpro denim pads, not really as Todd's mazda. Still trying to get myself comfortable with these pads (steep learning curve):buffing:

but what i did is to wetsand by hand, use the carpro pads to remove the sanding marks, ensure that no tracers are left.

will get a DA soon, God willing. and go the Abralon route

Here are a few shots:

thanks again Mike

cheers rops:
Zaid

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Zaid.... that looks GREAT!


Nice work!


Thank you for the follow-up...



:dblthumb2:

 

[Garyhw48]

Mike, Somehow I missed your excellent post on sanding with the 3401.

Around the first of November I tried the Trizact 3000 grit system on the Flex and also tried Meguiars Unigrit 1500 grit system with a spray bottle of water and a few drops of soap added.

I found as you that it seemed a little too aggressive for my taste. It worked but not as good as the results I get with an electric random orbit da sander that I have.

It runs at 12,000 OPM but the throw is very small.

I got excellent correction and gloss using my PE14 and 3401, first with LC purple foam wool and then with a fairly worn orange LC CCS pad with Menzerna FG400. Correction was full with both pads and machines with the foam taking a little longer but with just as full of a correction and gloss as with the wool. I think one of my Hybrid pads would have worked better but I was just playing around and didn't want to mess up a new Hybrid pad.

I wouldn't hesitate to sand with the Flex in a pinch but prefer the DA sander over all.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Mike, Somehow I missed your excellent post on sanding with the 3401.

Around the first of November I tried the Trizact 3000 grit system on the Flex and also tried Meguiars Unigrit 1500 grit system with a spray bottle of water and a few drops of soap added.

I found as you that it seemed a little too aggressive for my taste. It worked but not as good as the results I get with an electric random orbit da sander that I have.

Yep... the Flex 3401 will work as a machine sandier but it's just too aggressive for my tasts...

Maybe for gel-coat boats with heavy oxidation but again... any free spinning DA polisher will also do the job and do it a lot more safely or perhaps better wording would be a dual action polisher with a free rotating spindle assembly will sand material a lot less aggressively which is usually what you want.

I wouldn't hesitate to sand with the Flex in a pinch but prefer the DA sander over all.

Exactly.

I much prefer to work by machine for any process including machine waxing versus hand waxing, like this...

There's lots of confusion over the term wetsanding and specifically when and where the majority of wetsanding is performed and I wrote an article to try to remove that confusion here,

Wetsanding - Fresh Paint vs Factory Paint

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

:updated:


Was just asked about sanding with a FLEX 3401 and shared this article and thought I would share what I wrote in the PM.

Here's what I wrote...




As far as sanding with a FLEX 3401 or ANY gear driven tool - you shouldn't do this on thin factory paint. I wouldn't even do it on thick custom paint.

I TEACH using the FLEX 3401 to machine sand gel-coat boats and aluminum pontoon boats but they are THICK.

 

[Markymapo1]

Has anyone tried the cordless Flex units, the xfe 15-150 or the PE 150 for wet sanding or running wool pads on gel coat ? No electrical outlets available in the lot my boat is stored

 

[IH8SPM]

No experience with it but I've used lots of drills around water without issues.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Has anyone tried the cordless Flex units, the xfe 15-150 or the PE 150 for wet sanding or running wool pads on gel coat ? No electrical outlets available in the lot my boat is stored

In my boat detailing classes I show,

Cordless and Corded FLEX XFE7-150 15 for machine sanding gel-coat with Mirka Abralon Sanding discs.

Cordless and Corded FLEX 3401 to machine sand with Mirka Abralon sanding discs and also polishing gel-coat.

Cordless and Corded FLEX PE14 to remove sanding marks.


They all work great for the above.


Next boat detailing class is February of 2020

Detailing Classes, Florida Detailing Classes, learn how to detail

 

[Markymapo1]

Thanks for the info. I have both the cordless flex from AG (rotary n orbital) n will try them out this weekend

 

[Markymapo1]

Will Try out on a 24ft Cobalt that is level 4 oxid. This weekend (I do have your book Mike on How to detail boats Marine 31)

 

[Dr Oldz]

If you stuck, you can take the gear ring out of the 3401 housing and make it a free spinning DA. That is much more suitable for wet sanding! It pops right out using a screwdriver or small pry bar. The machine wasn’t designed to do so.... proceed at your own risk!