Can you wax too much?

Hoytman said:
Mike,
I've heard "older folks" (no offense Bob...LOL) mention wax build-up...

...not on cars(not heard of that), but on furniture. I've actually witnessed this on furniture and on floors, and even old recurves and longbows. I'm not saying there was any truth to folks talking about wax build-up on cars. However, I would like to know (and not sure anyone here would know) about the differnces between waxes for furniture, floors, and cars? I recall that Johnsons used to make a car wax. Don't know if they still do or not, but I'm fairly certain they still produce waxes for furniture and flooring. Are there more actual wax in these formulas vs. petroleum carriers in autowax? (Keeping in mind that pure wax is just that...no man made fillers until it's combined with other ingredients for the products we use.)

Okay Bob...you can chime in now. I expect you'll have some good input on this.
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-Excuse my late input (should be expected from "oldsters". LOL)

-Here's a couple of three current SC Johnson car care products:




Examples of SC Johnson Furniture and Floor "Waxes" and their MSDS's:
scjohnsonpastewax.jpg
scjohnsononestepnobuffwax.jpg


Paste Wax:
3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Hazardous chemicals present at or above reportable levels as defined by OSHA 29 CFR 1910.1200 or
the Canadian Controlled Products Regulations are listed in this table:


Chemical Name; CAS-No.; Weight percent
-Stoddard solvent; 8052-41-3; 60.00-100.00
-Paraffin and
Hydrocarbon waxes; 8002-74-2; 10.00-30.00
-Carnauba wax; 8015-86-9; 5.00-10.00
-1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene; 95-63-6; 1.00-5.00

^^^Carnuba %^^^ about the same as some car waxes!
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
One Step No Buiff (Spray) Wax:
3. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Hazardous chemicals present at or above reportable levels as defined by OSHA 29 CFR 1910.1200 or
the Canadian Controlled Products Regulations are listed in this table:

Chemical Name; CAS No.; Weight percent
-Solvent naphtha,
petroleum,
medium aliphatic; 64742-88-7; 30.00-60.00
-Stoddard solvent; 8052-41-3; 30.00-60.00
-Aromatic petroleum solvent; 64742-95-6; 1.00-5.00
-Xylene (YIKES!!); 1330-20-7 1.00-5.00
-Trimethyl benzene; 25551-13-7; 1.00-5.00

^^^Not much carnuba here!^^^
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Looks like there's plenty of petroleum carriers/solvents (?)...to go around, though!

:)

Bob
 
I knew you'd come through Bob.

I wonder what this build up is that we see on older furniture, flooring, and other wooden items that have some age? I always assumed it was the wax building up, or at least reacting with the stain or varnishes used on the wood.

In fact, this past weekend I helped a friend strip some late 1800 era solid maple chairs (8), and on old solid cherry dresser that had this build up on it (along with the inside drawers being painted 1940's green...yuck). It sure seemed like wax build up as I could scratch it off with my finger nail. It had a dull transparent look to it and in some places where the wood had been handled a lot the wax finish was worn away. I'll say one thing, with the chemicals we used on that furniture the wood was bare in less than 5 minutes, lightly powerwashed off, and dried...10 minutes max. I liked to choked to death using that stuff, and it would burn skin on contact, so precaution were taken in that regard.

I have a nice custom Black Widow Recurve bow from the early 1980's. I sent the bow back to Black Widow and had it refinished at the factory. They sent me a nasty smelling paste wax to wax it with should I desire to wax the bow. By the way, the solvents in the wax melted the plasitc container the wax came it and distorted the container terribly. The directions were to simply wipe on lightly and forget about it...no buffing, no hazing to buff off.

Back to the wax build up on cars.

I've never seen this build up on cars, so I don't know if could actually happen, but I've heard about it. We here lots of things that tend not to be true. I tend to believe that it isn't possible on a car, but I have no proof.

The differences I've seen have me thinking that certain waxes contain more wax (or something that builds up), at least that is what appears to be. It may not be true at all. If it isn't true, I'd like to know why on occasion with furniture we get the build up. I wish I knew more about wax, wood finishes, and car finishes.
 
Black Car said:
Guilty as charged. I knew when I saw the title of this thread Jason was going to have something to say about this. I've been a proud member of LSP anonymous for a few years now.

My name is Mike and it's been 4 days since I've put a layer of Supernatural Hybrid on my car
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Think it's about time for an intervention! :nomore:
 
Hoytman said:
I wonder what this build up is that we see on older furniture, flooring, and other wooden items that have some age? I always assumed it was the wax building up, or at least reacting with the stain or varnishes used on the wood.

....It sure seemed like wax build up as I could scratch it off with my finger nail. It had a dull transparent look to it and in some places where the wood had been handled a lot the wax finish was worn away.

I'd like to know why on occasion with furniture we get the build up.
Click to expand...

{Disclaimer: The following is in regards to wooden furniture only. }


-Boy do I remember having to wax Mom's furniture with a paste wax, although it was only every other year or so! Very time consuming, though...Hour upon hour upon hour.

-However, in these "Rush-Rush-Nowadays", we have all of these different sprays, polishes, oils, cleaners to 'speed-up' the 'furniture-polishing-sessions'. Besides furniture refinishers/restorers, the use of furniture waxes seems to have waned.

So I beg this question: Do you want your furniture to have a 'shine' and/or 'shine and protection' also? (In the similar vein of thought as vehicle paint care products, perhaps?)

I. Made from wood, wooden furniture...(Unfinished/finished)
A. Wooden furniture is manufactured from dead wood
1.) If wooden furniture is unfinished; and, also keeping in mind, that it's dead-wood: It doesn't need to breathe, be fed, or be nourished. (Correlation between this, and vehicles' leather surfaces come to mind!)
2.) Finished wood:
a.) A "finish" is designed to seal wood and protect it from humidity/moisture, spills, stains, scuffs/abrasions, and the enhancement of the wood grain. [If wood is sealed (finished), ain't no way any furniture waxes/polishes should penetrate it.]

II. Types of furniture waxes/polishes
A. Petroleum distillate:
1.) Usually a form of slow evaporating mineral oil
2.) Adds 'shine' until all evaporation has occurred
3.) Good for removing grease/wax/dust...Not so good on removing most spills, food residues.
4. Inexpensive, easy to apply, and produces a 'quick shine'...(usually has a fragrance added to hide/conceal the "petroleum aroma")

B. Water-based:
1.) Water is the universal-cleaner that's added to many polishes
2.) Is usually combined with a petroleum distillate to form an milky-white emulsion.
3.) Such water/petroleum distillate emulsion polishes are good at cleaning a wider spectrum of dirt/grease
4.) Usually marketed/labeled as one-step clean and polish. (AIO's, anyone?)

C. Silicone:
1.) Imparts gloss/depth
2.) Long-lasting
3.) Inert compound...Not harmful to wood or wood finishes (sealers) if use is infrequent.
4.) Your furniture polish has silicone in it:
a. "Dragging a Finger Across the Polished Wood Surface Test"
b. Picking-up a placemat to discover a dull appearance (placemat absorbed some 'oils')
5. Just as in the automotive refinishing/restoration and body shops...A bane, as well, to wood furniture refinishers/restorers!
6. IMO...Great product for disposable furniture...Never on anything one would value!!!

D. Paste Wax
1.) Has been around for centuries...Time-proven, and effective as either a finish (sealer), or a protectant.
2.) Doesn't evaporate from the wood surfaces
3.) No necessity for frequent applications (possible exception: "high wear areas")
4. Considered the most 'permanent' furniture protection product.
5.) Difficult to apply/excess-removal
6.) Best paste waxes have no silicones...Good news for refinishers/restorers
7.) Paste waxes dry to a: Thin, hard, durable, and clear, protective coating
8.) Have less dust attraction...Provides for easier furniture-cleaning-sessions...Wipe with a soft, damp lint-free cloth
9.) Imbues a more desirable glow/sheen (similar to what is deemed desirable for car waxes?)

III. My Observations Per: "Over-the-Ages-Information-Accumalation-Affect"
A. "Time-saving" spray-on polishes/oils
1.) Quick, temporary 'shine' due to them being 'wet'
2.) Little or no 'protection'
3.) Dust magnets
4.) Good job selling these type products by the marketers...Saves time for other things in life for the (gender-free :D) homemaker
5.) Because of petroleum distillates/silicones...harm will occur, over time, to the finish (sealer), and eventually the wood itself. (the finish softens and turns into a gooey mess.)
6.) Sometimes a little amount of wax is added to spray-on and liquid polishes for easier application

B. Paste Wax Build-up on Furniture:
1. A thin application, as well as less frequency, will help reduce build-up...Because
a.) As stated above: Paste wax dries hard, clear, and is more durable
b.) Cleans-up with damp, lint-free cloth...No need to keep 'piling it on' everytime you clean/dust...Sorry Furniture Waxing/Polishing Zealots!!
2.) No wax "build-up" could mean no, or not enough, protection (reiteration: dries hard and clear)
3.) "Old" wax/wax layers can be cleaned/removed...But choose products specifically for wood cleaning/wax-removal
4.) Just like "other waxes" discussed on this and other forums:
a.) All the wax put on furniture doesn't mean it'll remain there forever...It, too, gets: 'buffed', worn off, oxidized, "touched" by a myriad of contaminates.

IV. Summation:
A. Just as:
-An LSP protects the vehicle's top-coat paint film 'finish' (CC); and, the 'CC finish' protects its substrates [BC, e-coat, sheet-metals (ferrous/non-ferrous, for example)]
-A furniture wax/polish protects the wood 'finish' (CC, if you will); and, the 'finish' protects the wood (substrate).
B. As usual for me...A couple more things:
1.) There does seem to be many similarities between car-care/wooden-furniture care products/processes...But I suggest to:
2.) Make sure you use a wax/polish designed for wood furniture. Some shoe and car waxes have been known to cause problems on some wood 'finishes'
3.) Given your druthers...Which furniture-care product would you choose between paste waxes, polishes, or 'oils'? How would this choice affect your selection of car-care products, if any?

Hope this helps some.

:)

Bob
 
I think there was a guy at a table that stood on a duck too? :D

EDIT: must work on contributing better content related to the actual topic ;)

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Yep, that's the traditional place you would hear about a wax build-up...


I think there was a guy in the movie Caddyshack that talked about a wax build-up...


:)
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Why do I get the feeling I'll never be as smart as Bob? LOL!!!

Someone remind me to never get into a fact based arguement with him lol.

To answer your question in IV, 3B...and it may not be the answer you're looking for, or the correct answer...


...but I'd choose a paste wax for furniture. However, I've also used a fair amount of tung oil and boiled linseed oil, via a hand rubbed finish, on some wood items like stocks.
 
Hoytman said:
To answer your question in IV, 3B...and it may not be the answer you're looking for, or the correct answer...


...but I'd choose a paste wax for furniture. However, I've also used a fair amount of tung oil and boiled linseed oil, via a hand rubbed finish, on some wood items like stocks.
Click to expand...

Hi Bill...

Good choices for your stocks. The term I would give to tung oil, boiled linseed oil, and their ilk, would be sealers (finishes). That might be just me, though.

BTW: I've used a 4:1, #2-Diesel/Boiled linseed oil mix
for concrete sealer before.

:)

Bob
 
umi000 said:
It's your car, and you can maintain it whichever way you wish :) Personally though, I'd never use just a QD and a California duster to keep my car clean - there is too much potential for marring.
Click to expand...


is it the duster that causes the marring? because unless it does i dont see how the quick detailer can? the dust would be removed with the duster...
 
I think Cali Dusters are a Godsend during pollen season. If used right, I've never had a problem. Tread lightly, as they say.
 
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