cannot get rid of holograms/buffer trails

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ride5150

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i had a weird thing happen to me today. i was polishing a panel and sprayed it with IPA 71% to help with getting the dust off. i wiped the panel with a MF towel, and theres holograms all over. funny thing is, theres holograms in places on the panel that i didnt even touch with the polisher. i take some m205, put it on a mf, and rub the area to see if they come out. i wipe up the residue, and now theres holograms EVERWHERE that i touched with the MF towel and m205.

i thought that maybe the MF is coarse or theres some contaminants in it that are doing the damge. so i get a LC green polishing pad (the one thats softer than the white LC pad), spray it with quick detailer, put some m205 on it and work the area by hand with the green pad. i wipe the area with a MF, 85% of the holograms are gone but theres still some left. i get the polisher back out, keep in mind that im using a DA, put on the green pad, spray it with QD, and use some m205. i work it at speed 3, moving the polisher relatively quick and with light pressure. i spray the panel with quick detailer, wipe up the residue, and theres still holograms.

i dont get it. m205 is a finishing polish, why am i getting holograms? how do i get rid of them?

this is the first time ive inflicted holograms into the paint, i think its the m205. or maybe that im spraying the pad with quick detailer first? before ive used ultimate compound on a white pad, and poliseal on a white pad and ive never gotten holograms before.

help?
 
what car are you working on? it could be one that has soft paint and the white pad might be too aggressive. You might want to try stepping down to an even finer polish to remove the holograms.
 
rider9195 said:
what car are you working on? it could be one that has soft paint and the white pad might be too aggressive. You might want to try stepping down to an even finer polish to remove the holograms.
Click to expand...

its a 99 black honda civic. finer than m205? ive actually used ultimate compound(which is suppose to be pretty aggressive) with a white pad on it before and have had no holograms.
 
ride5150 said:
its a 99 black honda civic. finer than m205? ive actually used ultimate compound(which is suppose to be pretty aggressive) with a white pad on it before and have had no holograms.
Click to expand...

From my understanding Honda paints are very soft. Now if you are removing the defects with M205 w/ White LC and you can remove the holograms withe M205 w/ Green LC, go for it. It would be best to use a finer polish such as PO106FA or PO85RD with the Green pad.

Also Ultimate Compound finishes down to almost LSP ready and M205 might not finish down as good as UC.
 
rider9195 said:
From my understanding Honda paints are very soft. Now if you are removing the defects with M205 w/ White LC and you can remove the holograms withe M205 w/ Green LC, go for it. It would be best to use a finer polish such as PO106FA or PO85RD with the Green pad.

Also Ultimate Compound finishes down to almost LSP ready and M205 might not finish down as good as UC.
Click to expand...

interesting...i might go back with UC and a white pad and see if that takes care of them. the m205 and a green LC still leaves holograms for some reason even though green is pretty soft.

now that i remember, i used m105 on an orange pad followed by m205 on white yesterday on a different panel with no holograms whatsoever. im starting to think that maybe this panel was repainted with some really soft paint, i really dont understand why this is happening.

isnt UC a smat product? i thought it doesnt finish down at all and the abrasives stay the same size.

this is from the link below:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...anted-know-about-meguiar-s-smat-products.html

"SMAT - Super Micro Abrasives Technology
Super Micro Abrasives are as the name states microscopic in size and do not break down like diminishing abrasives. While they may not breakdown like a diminishing abrasive, there does come a point where there effectiveness falls off in performance, my guess is that this is a cumulative effect of the base formula they are embodied in dissipates while particles of removed paint build up in the residue adulterating or diluting their effectiveness. "

im confused:P
 
Last edited:
ride5150 said:
i had a weird thing happen to me today. i was polishing a panel and sprayed it with IPA 71% to help with getting the dust off. i wiped the panel with a MF towel, and theres holograms all over. funny thing is, theres holograms in places on the panel that i didnt even touch with the polisher. i take some m205, put it on a mf, and rub the area to see if they come out. i wipe up the residue, and now theres holograms EVERWHERE that i touched with the MF towel and m205.

i thought that maybe the MF is coarse or theres some contaminants in it that are doing the damge. so i get a LC green polishing pad (the one thats softer than the white LC pad), spray it with quick detailer, put some m205 on it and work the area by hand with the green pad. i wipe the area with a MF, 85% of the holograms are gone but theres still some left. i get the polisher back out, keep in mind that im using a DA, put on the green pad, spray it with QD, and use some m205. i work it at speed 3, moving the polisher relatively quick and with light pressure. i spray the panel with quick detailer, wipe up the residue, and theres still holograms.

i dont get it. m205 is a finishing polish, why am i getting holograms? how do i get rid of them?

this is the first time ive inflicted holograms into the paint, i think its the m205. or maybe that im spraying the pad with quick detailer first? before ive used ultimate compound on a white pad, and poliseal on a white pad and ive never gotten holograms before.

help?
Click to expand...
Try speeding the machine up to 4.5 and slow down your arm speed considerably. What I have highlighted above is a sure fire way to instil buffer marks. While 205 is a finishing polish, it still has abrasives in it and if dragged across the paint quickly at a low machine speed the abrasives haven't been given sufficient time to do what they are designed to do which is polish the paint to a high gloss.
 
I think Dave's nailed this one...:props:

For some reason many feel running the machine at a slow speed and moving it at a higher rate of speed across the panel is preferable but it's not.

Polishes generally perform best between 5 and 6 give or take a few and the pad should rotate during the process. A slow arm speed will give the pad and product time to work properly removing the surface defects as it was designed. Use a criss-cross pattern and do a 2" X 2" section at a time and you should see significant improvement.

Ensure that the Microfiber towels you're using are clean and soft. Use clean water or mineral spirits to wash the panel or section to evaluate your progress.
 
ride5150 said:
keep in mind that im using a DA,
Click to expand...


Holograms are another term for rotary buffer swirls. It's the 3D effect that makes the "pattern" caused by the direction a rotary buffer is moved over the paint to look like the swirls are floating in the paint.


Like this,


DISO = The Dealership Installed Swirl Option

Mike Phillips said:
DISO = Dealer Installed Swirl Option


Here's a few shots taken in the sun. Note how the swirls in the paint closest to the windshield have an almost floating or 3D effect, this is where the term hologram comes from in the context of talking about swirls instilled by a rotary buffer.
Horrendous001.jpg



Here's a section of the above photo cropped out and in full size...
Often times you'll hear or read about "Holograms" or "Buffer Trails". These are both interchangeable terms for Rotary Buffer Swirls.

If you look at the below swirls they almost seem to have a 3D or floating in the paint affect, this is the appearance characteristic from which we get the word hologram.
Horrendous011.jpg
Click to expand...



You can leave a pattern in paint using a DA Polisher but it's not exactly the same thing as swirls inflicted into the paint by a rotary buffer like you see above.


This topic comes up often enough I wrote an article about it with pictures...


The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring


On soft paints, M205 doesn't always finish down perfectly. Try the finishing polish we used on both of these cars... Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish, it really finishes down nice...


1962CadillacExtremeMakeoverTeam.jpg


1962CadillacExtremeMakeoverTeam04.jpg


GTOPearl06.jpg


GTOPearl18.jpg



GTOPearl19.jpg





:xyxthumbs:
 
Sonax nano technology paint cleaner!! Absolutely amazing for soft paints as a finishing polish!!!! Speed 4 with a finishing pad!!
 
thanks for the replies :dblthumb2:

well it seems like the MF towels that im using are leaving one-directional swirls(since i was wiping in one direction), which is why i thought they were buffer trails/holograms. weird, i dont think theyve left any marring before, at least i didnt notice any. just now i washed them 3 times in the washing machine and put in a little fabric softener to try and save them. ill probably end up buying new ones anyways...awesome :xyxthumbs:
 
I don't think you are suppose to use fabric softener on MF's. I think it makes them worse..
 
yeah ive heard that before, but decided theyre going to be my interior MFs anyways. they got ever-so-slightly softer and smell like downy. :xyxthumbs:
 
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