Carpro Dlux OVER Opti-Guard

WRXINXS said:
Also, WOW I feel like I opened a can of worms by posting this thread!
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No not at all Drew most fun I've had in awhile on here. Spirited conversation is alway fun and can be educational.

See Sec I knew you would be back!!! :D
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, well...certainly there are many types of plastics used on the exterior of modern automobiles, thermoplastics, TPE's, vinyls. Although I have seen some weird rubbery wiper cowlings on GM products, I still would argue that the materials we are taking about for hard trim don't have volatile components like that. I've never seen a wiper cowling shrink like I have the vinyl window trim.

If you're talking PVC, vinyl, etc., then yes perhaps these have plasticizers that will offgas over time, temperature and UV, I just don't think a wiper cowling or similar hard plastic has that volatile content.
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IMHO:
It would be very difficult to find any automotive plastic trim such as: cowls, front air diffusers, and the like...
That doesn't contain phthalates, the plasticizers that makes "plastics": flexible, durable, etc.

:)

Bob
 
FUNX725 said:
IMHO:
It would be very difficult to find any automotive plastic trim such as: cowls, front air diffusers, and the like...
That doesn't contain phthalates, the plasticizers that makes "plastics": flexible, durable, etc.
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Ok, what is the percentage of those additives, and what is a typical weight loss over thermal cycling, UV exposure, etc? Is the loss of those additives linear over time? Is it only from the outer layer?
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Ok, what is the percentage of those additives, and what is a typical weight loss over thermal cycling, UV exposure, etc? Is the loss of those additives linear over time? Is it only from the outer layer?
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Well yea...As you know...
Each and every manufacturer of "plastics" have their own formulations...
(I'm no longer privy to any...perhaps you are, though)...

SO:
You are going to have to be a little more specific.
Are you talking about any of the following plasticizers?:

-Di 2-ethylhexyl phthalate: (DEHP)
-Diisononyl phthalate: (DINP)
-Diisodecyl phthalate: (DIDP)
-Butyl benzyl phthalate: (BBP)
-Di-n-octyl phthalate: (DOP)
-Di-n-hexyl phthalate: (DHP)


Irregardless...

Getting back to the OP's (Drew's) thread-starter proposition:
Can Opti-Guard be effectively layered using CQ DLux?

My answer will be to now just simply reiterate:
-Since I will never use any Opti-Coatings on any types of "plastic trim"...
In my case, then: This point is moot.

-Also: Just one "trim dressing" at a time.

:)

Bob
 
On nom nom nom <-- me eating popcorn as I follow this very interesting thread, thanks everyone for posting!
 
ihaveacamaro said:
colbertPCorn.gif
On nom nom nom <-- me eating popcorn as I follow this very interesting thread, thanks everyone for posting!
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Fixed it for you.:D

I'm waiting for Mr. Megane to chime in.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
where is Mr. Megane when you need him?
Chris's FX4 said:
I'm waiting for Mr. Megane to chime in.
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Here's one of Mr. Megane's posts in this thread...(w/my-highlighting)...
Wherein...(To me):

Sounds like he's interested in some of the same "characteristics" of
Opti-Coatings...Just as others, (including myself), have been pondering.

Mr Megane said:
I must say my first thought was to question the bonding of the Optimum product to the trim. Has anyone got an MSDS for it - I could more accurately comment with that in hand?

Generally, the most advanced coatings out there are very surface specific. In order to form covalent or iono-covalent bonds, one needs the correct coupling agents. Look at the various surfaces one might encounter - glass (inorganic - silicates), metals, trims (misc plastics), clearcoat (organics such as urethanes, hybrid organic/inorganic, etc, etc). The chances are that if a product adheres to all of them that it may well compromise the ultimate strength of said bond. More than that, if a product is optimised to bond to any one (inorganics for instance), it will often not be optimal on others. Consider, for instance, paints (general). Many paints are great until you would try to apply to glass or bare metals. They will cover but they will not last.

We really need Optimum to comment on this and maybe tell us what tests
they have done which lead them to believe there is bonding to plastics
and how they have measured that it remains 'stuck' with time.
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:)

Bob
 
From my experience:

Opti Coat will effectively coat and prevent fading on plastics with the characteristics of the diffuser.

When the OP washed with Power Clean follower by Eraser and still got beading we can know that Opti Coat is still there.

I have coated door handles, grilles, diffusers and the mother of plastic cladding: Chevy Avalanches.

What I noticed was that while OCP (Opti-Coat Pro) darkened while wet, it seemed to lighten again as it flashed. I could make it stay darkened to my liking after about 3 thin coats, but this is much more than I use for paint, so I talked with Dr. G about it. He explained how much harder paint is and how much more porous trim is and how the carrier solvent was very thin, etc.

Cliffs notes: Plastic takes more OCP to saturate the numerous pores...but the amount of coating on the surface is plenty to protect from fading and environmental factors.

Guesswork: I think the installer made a single pass like he did on the paint, but it wasn't enough to seal off the pore. Or DLUX sticks longer than I assumed, but by the OP's admission has already faded.

I think it's good news that he was able to use DLUX to darken the piece to his liking, but you can rest assured that is did NOT permeate OCP. If it had that capability it would be dangerous along the lines of a paint stripper.
 
2old2change said:
Thanks for clearing that up Chris.

At least Chris did for you.
Not totally cleared-up for me though
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Hi Chris...

If you don't mind ...
There's a couple of things that I still need addressed

1.) The following is what I've been driving at:

-How, then, did CQ DLux actually darken the below mentioned piece of plastic (trim),
if CQ DLux did not permeate the OCP?

-Does that mean that CQ DLux, somehow or the other, darkened the existing OCP? Or what?
Chris@Optimum said:
I think it's good news that he was able to use DLUX to darken the piece to his liking,
but you can rest assured that is did NOT permeate OCP.
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2.) For instance...Without something like CQ DLux's MSDS...

-How does one know that it does/doesn't have ingredients/chemicals that are in paint strippers?

-If there would be any of these paint stripper ingredients/chemicals in CQ DLux, couldn't that be
a step in the direction toward explaining how the plastic piece, mentioned above, became darkened?
Chris@Optimum said:
If it had that capability it would be dangerous along the lines of a paint stripper.
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Thanks for any further information you are able to provide.

:)

Bob
 
Chis, I appreciate your help on this matter!

Bob, I think it may have been able to darken the trim because as Chris said, one pass of OC Pro will not fill in all the pores. The Dlux might have filled in these pores in the plastic and darkened it. Just a though. I may be totally off basis though.

Drew
 
WRXINXS said:
Bob, I think it may have been able to darken the trim because as Chris said, one pass of OC Pro will not
fill in all the pores. The Dlux might have filled in these pores in the plastic and darkened it.
Just a though. I may be totally off basis though.

Drew
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Hi Drew...

I'm conjuring-up images that, the above, would/will result in a...
(more or less): "splotchey-appearance"...Kind of an: Appaloosa-style?

appaloosa-horse1.jpg



And speaking of horses...
I apologize if it seems like I'm:
beatdeadhorse5.gif


It's just my nature to be so daggone curious!!



Once again Drew: Thanks for your thought-provoking-thread!!


:)

Bob
 
You may be right Bob I guess it might look blotchy if that were the case. The search for the answer continues lol!
 
Sorry to those who were expecting me to chime in - somehow I have missed this thread after my initial comment.

To be totally honest, without knowing more about the Optimum product, it is very hard to do more than hypothesise. The MSDS I have found are US type and do not provide the level of compositional information that is required in the EU, so if someone has an EU MSDS (they must be out there, they are required for products sold in the EU, and Optimum products are sold here), let me know.

I can only give a few thoughts as before. Chris has not alluded to any scientific tests confirming the bonding to trim, if I read correctly it was in his experience. I know that OC presence is confirmed on paint with a PTG (I'd still love to see some proper microscopy...) but I suspect that this would be a highly questionable approach on a rough surface like trim. As Chris says, the structure of the trim may mean that the coating has simply been inadequate to fully cover the surface. That said, one would have to wonder thus why the d-lux manages it without any issue.

I think that the unavoidable conclusion one must reach is that this optimum coating is really not great on plastic trims. Optimum have themselves noted that coverage is an issue on textured/porous surfaces so I must conclude to work with one of the products which does not have this problem (dlux being clearly demonstrated here).
 
Mr. Megane, I was kind of hoping you'd address the "plasticizer" issue as to whether plastic trim has "oil" in it and whether in automotive application these materials exude plasticizer which would make the adherence of a coating impossible over the medium or long term.
 
Had to post a quote made by Kevin Brown concerning bonding to trim. This was discussing road paint but the principals are the same as far as coating bonding to trim.

Hmmm seems he has the same thoughts as I do and he is much smarter.

"If the paint is stuck to non-painted plastic (textured or smooth), it'll eventually loosen up due to expansion/contraction, oxidation, or out-gassing of the plastic. In other words, it'll eventually come off. Sometimes, use of a pressure washer will help things along. Applied liberally, M40 Vinyl/Rubber Cleaner & Conditioner will help to weaken the bond."
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Mr. Megane, I was kind of hoping you'd address the "plasticizer" issue as to whether plastic trim has "oil" in it and whether in automotive application these materials exude plasticizer which would make the adherence of a coating impossible over the medium or long term.
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I'll be quite truthful that you are at the very limit of my expertise. What I do know for sure is that automotive plastics do out-gas to an extent. In itself this will present no issue for some products because they are quite vapor permeable (this will be familiar to anyone used to breathable waterproof fabrics). I should suggest that, as long as the coating is permeable, the exuded matter will be gaseous and will disappear without issue. If, however, the coating is not vapour permeable, then one must ask where the gas goes? I would guess that there then is the potential for it to accumulate, perhaps putting stress on any bonds between substrate and coating or perhaps agglomerating into something of a more liquid, oil-like, state. In either instance, I can see the potential for compromising the bonding.
 
Mr Megane said:
I'll be quite truthful that you are at the very limit of my expertise. What I do know for sure is that automotive plastics do out-gas to an extent. In itself this will present no issue for some products because they are quite vapor permeable (this will be familiar to anyone used to breathable waterproof fabrics). I should suggest that, as long as the coating is permeable, the exuded matter will be gaseous and will disappear without issue. If, however, the coating is not vapour permeable, then one must ask where the gas goes? I would guess that there then is the potential for it to accumulate, perhaps putting stress on any bonds between substrate and coating or perhaps agglomerating into something of a more liquid, oil-like, state. In either instance, I can see the potential for compromising the bonding.
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Hmmmm sounds familiar. Thank you.
 
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