Ceramic Coating Experiment! Am I just wasting time and money?

DMiglio

DMiglio

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Ok so here goes, mainly did this as a test to find out the least amount of prep required for a ceramic coating application. I was honestly looking for something to do and who here doesn’t enjoy messing around detailing their rides!?

I was inspired by two things, firstly, a retail shoppers mindset on detailing and paint protection and secondly, Mike Phillips article where he coated a vehicle in record time! With that in mind I wanted to give something a shot.

Here’s that article:
https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...der-15-minutes-using-pbl-surface-coating.html

For my first inspiration, I was thinking how a retail shopper might, they want to clean shine and protect their car for the coming months. They’ve read about coatings and knowing nothing other than that they’re “invincible” and last “forever!” Looking over the shelves they see a bottle of McKee’s 37 Paint Coating, there it is, that word, COATING! They’ve also read it needs a squeaky clean surface, so grabs some prep spray.

Second inspiration was Mike’s article on coating a vehicle in 15 minutes. I knew I couldn’t do it that quickly, but wanted to challenge myself and again thinking like a regular Joe Schmoe, spray it on let it sit and wipe it off.

Just some other details to get out of the way about the vehicle. It is a 2010 Mini Cooper S, outside 24/7, and has just under 100k miles so paint isn’t perfect by any means, just your average daily! I’ve decon’d in the past but that was beginning of summer so there is iron and other fallout on the paint now. Living in an apartment I’ve not been able to polish the paint either unfortunately, but this maybe plays into the retail shopper experience(your neighbor who likes to wash and wax their car but knows nothing about a clay bar, iron decon products and won’t polish bc it takes too long and doesn’t own a machine to do it!)

My process was as follows and believe me, it’s quite unbecoming to any of us here!
1)Waterless washed using a pump sprayer and ONR, dilution around 1:32 or so.
2)Heavily sprayed down with Gyeon Paint Prep(probably used 12 Oz on my little car).
3)Final wipedown lightly misting the prep on a towel to insure cleanliness.
4)Intalled the coating.

Thats it!

From start to finish took me less than 2 hours to wash, prep, apply and wrap everything up. I’ll do my best to keep the thread updated and get pictures as well!

Products used:
ONR
Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine: clay lubricant, optimum rinseless wash, no rinse car wash, optimum detailing products
Gyeon Paint Prep
GYEON Q2M Prep - 500 ml
Mckee’s 37 Paint Coating
Paint Coating, nano paint sealant, ceramic paint coating, nano paint coating
 
As long as you are having fun with it, there is no waste of time or money, IMO.

In fact, I think this idea is refreshing. I love the approach of the "Joe Shmo" guy at Walmart. Brilliant!
 
Thanks for the encouragement guys! I’m not too sure what to expect but I’ll keep it updated.

My biggest concern now is any premature failure due to morning dew since where I’m at(Illinois) the weather has been pleasantly warm during the day but nights can be low 60’s. Today was cooler 74* and tonight low is expected to be mid 50’s*. Any thoughts?

As far as maintenance goes, I usually get 1 or 2 rinseless or waterless washes in a week where I used a detail spray or spray wax as a drying aid and quick top up to my base LSP. Once a month I’ll take it to a self service wash bay and I just did that last weekend.

This time around dealing with a coating, I’ll use n914 for rinseless/waterless washes and Mckees Si02 soap at the wash bay. As far as drying aid I could do n914 as a detail spray/drying aid. I was also thinking of topping up with Hydro Blue right before winter fully sets in(maybe end of November) and using Merlin’s Elixer instead of n914.

Thoughts here guys? Anything specific you’d like to see? Toppers/soaps with nothing left behind or something that reinforces the coating? I do really want to do Hydro Blue for my own sanity during winter haha.

Assuming this all isn’t a total failure I’m hoping this provides some info to all of us!
 
No thoughts from me as I am not a coating user.

I do however, read just about 99% of everything on this forum.

And I like this experiment, as I said.
 
For testing purpose I would go with the N-914 and SiO2 Wash. If going with EcH2O I would use that and don't ad the extra Reload or other SiO2 sealant. I can understand the wanting to go with the Hydro Blue too. But if you normaly gets warmer temperature above the freezing point during the winter where you live. I would get the Hydro Blue but wait to apply it until the coating fails during the winter or shows signs of it. The spray on rinse off products I have used have worked great as it's just not is freezing. And all in the name of the testing purpose LOL. If you have road salt on the roads where you live. Get you a small bottle of Carpro Reset car soap as it's crazy good to get the coating perfectly clean. The coating is prone to be clogged as any LSP in the harsher winter environment. I even help the SiO2 sealants with a tar remover a couple of times during the winter months on the lower side panels and the back of the car. To not clogg so easy and get a cleaner paint to apply a spray on rinse off product after such a wash. With a coating you don't useally needs to be topping it up after this.

Awesome testing and I think that we will be surprised in the longevity from it even with the not so thorough prep work as a polishing step would be doing. Will be interesting to follow your experience with this.

/ Tony
 
Hey Tony, thanks so much for chiming in! I appreciate your comments and thoughts on the direction I should go as far as maintaining and boosting the coating. You’re knowledge and experience in this area is held in high regard by me and I’m sure many others as your threads are testament to what a thorough wash and decon can do to revive a coating.

I’ll be taking it all into consideration when coming up with a plan to maintain and boost the coating! Thanks again.

I work early mornings so when I got in my car around 4:30am the morning dew was quite heavy, enough so that when I drove you could see water streaking across the windows and painted surfaces. I’m worried this may cause issues as I wrapped things up only 12 hours before around 4:30 pm Monday evening. Anybody with experience on coatings and morning dew within the 24 hour cure time?

On a positive note though the fact the dew was able to actually break the surface tension and move across the vehicle while driving has me pleasently surprised!
 
Thanks for the nice words!

I go often too long before topping or reapply the LSP. As I'm so interested to see how long it lasts before it's totaly fails LOL. With coatings you often have a longer window from when it's degrades so you call it necessary to be topped to get a higher performance back. Than until it gets totaly failed. Then some like to top coatings right away and it's sometimes necessary to be done. As in your case with the morning dew. If you applyied a topper like you would do on say CQUK 3.0 with Reload after the recommended wait in between them. You would reduce the risk of the dew makeing any impact on the coating the first 24h and up to a week. If the dew where to dry on the paint that is. Now you drove the car and got it to sheet off. Or you would be drying the dew off before it dries. It's not often it has impact on the coating. But it can mess with the hydrophobic top layer of the coating if you are unlucky. And even leave water spots on it in rare cases. Think that you got enough time for it to cure before the dew came in. That can be a higher risk that you have pulled out the car directly after the application and the dew came in. Coatings use the air to cure as it should or bonds to the paint. With water on it too soon you can get a different kind of chemical reaction when it cures/bonds. This can happens with high humidity too. And it's not only the coatings that can have problems with this. I have had failed application with the older version of Ultima Paint Guard Plus just with the evening dew came in short after application. And a much shorter longevity from Turtle Wax ICE Seal N Shine when it started to rain directly after the SNS was applyied. It shorted the longevity to 6 weeks to total failure from SNS. Applyied it again in better weather conditions and it's still going really strong which it didn't the first time. The same with coatings that some are more sensitive than others from getting water on them too early. And you notice it both in the performance and longevity. But not easy to notice in the beginning of the coating life. As it's even on a lower performance has a great water behavior from it. But you should have awesome behavior from it and it should hold up a long time before you see a degrade in the behavior from it. That's one thing that can happen with a lesser prep work. But if you have a clean paint it's useally that you lock in the marring if you have any. Also it's behavior can be affected if you have too much of wash marring. As the coating is not able to be bonded on a smooth surface that's what is getting it to have an extreme water behavior and self cleaning ability from it. Protection wise it's there and do it's thing and can last longer even when the hydrophobic top layer is degraded. And then it's where you have the toppers coming in to rescue LOL.

Either way you go it's going to be interesting to hear how you experience this test. This is something that's not been tested hardly. I could even see a value with the McKees 37 Ceramic Coating which you get a lot of product in the bottle from it. That when you see it degrades enough to you feel it's time to top it up. Why don't just do a thorough decon wash with Reset and if needed a tar remover and iron remover and a panel prep wipe product. Then put on a new layer of the coating over it. Instead of getting cured in the bottle you use it as a topper on it self. If you get more than 5-6 months extra longevity from it. It would be great. As long as the paint is clean and not too much of bonded contaminants. I would try it and maybe split it with a more dedicated topper and see if it's a value in useing it up.

So many choices LOL
 
DMiglio said:
My process was as follows and believe me, it’s quite unbecoming to any of us here!

1)Waterless washed using a pump sprayer and ONR, dilution around 1:32 or so.

2)Heavily sprayed down with Gyeon Paint Prep(probably used 12 Oz on my little car).

3)Final wipedown lightly misting the prep on a towel to insure cleanliness.

4)Intalled the coating.



Thats it!

From start to finish took me less than 2 hours to wash, prep, apply and wrap everything up. I’ll do my best to keep the thread updated and get pictures as well!
Click to expand...


I think this is a GREAT experiment and I'm looking forward to seeing how well the coating hold up without doing any of the normal paint correction work.


I'm writing copy for something similar for Dr. Beasley's Formula 1201 Ceramic Paint Coating for My Classic Car which reaches the masses.


:)
 
Tony, as you’ve noted, water or moisture can effect bonding of sealants in their cure time, and seems coatings can be a bit more vulnerable than them during this time, so that has me a bit worried. Based on what I saw with water behavior from the dew this morning and how clean the car still looks has me hoping all is well so far though!

That was partly the reason I tried the Mckees coating, there’s a lot of product there and quite economical at its price point. If it fails way short of the mark I wouldn’t blame the product one bit and would gladly reapply it again! I tried taking a picture of what I used, being a black bottle wasn’t able to really capture it, but it almost looks like a new bottle to be honest.

I’m excited to see where the test goes and fingers crossed the coating bonded well enough to fail the first day of Spring and not middle of winter ;)
 
Mike Phillips said:
I think this is a GREAT experiment and I'm looking forward to seeing how well the coating hold up without doing any of the normal paint correction work.


I'm writing copy for something similar for Dr. Beasley's Formula 1201 Ceramic Paint Coating for My Classic Car which reaches the masses.


:)
Click to expand...


Same here Mike, really hoping it can hold up well enough through winter, which at that point I might call it a success and polish the vehicle.

I’d be interested to hear about that 1201, that’s the one that applies to a wet vehicle, correct?
 
Ok, thread update!!

I took some pictures yesterday about an hour after we received some rain. The car had gotten light drizzles of rain a day or two prior and having dew on it every morning allowed for some accumulation of dust to settle and dry to the surface. I haven’t touched the car since Monday evening.

These first two are from the rear roof area
View attachment 68007
View attachment 68008

These two are from the hood
View attachment 68009
View attachment 68010

As you can see less than stellar beading from a coating, the beads are quite large and don’t have similar shape either. After driving the car later in the day though, the water did clear itself nicely leaving the car pretty dry overall. Later on in the day we had some heavy rains come through and the beading did look much better than what I had seen earlier in the day, maybe from “self-cleaning” effect. Had the rain removed the dust from days prior due to dew and light drizzle allowing for a cleaner surface promoting better beads?
 
Further updates(hope double posting isn’t a problem?)!

This morning I went out quite early so the pics are dark, I did enhance them and brightened them though.

Later afternoon yesterday and overnight we received storms and a lot of rain!! I was excited to see the car this morning after that so grabbed pics first thing! The beading looks much better, similar to what I saw late afternoon after driving through the storms yesterday.

These are from the hood
View attachment 68011
View attachment 68012

These are from the roof
View attachment 68013
View attachment 68014

Improved beading but still not great, certainly not what I’d expect from a coating.

Idk if the application process didn’t work well due to the prep(or lack of without a thorough decon or polishing step) which was a waterless wash and heavy wipe down with paint prep product or if it’s due to the amount of moisture and dew that came through overnight(this was my biggest concern and what I think is to blame).

I will continue to update, planning to do n914 rinseless/waterless today inbetween the storms we’ve had just to really clean things up. Really tempted to start adding toppers though as the beading is less than stellar and something like Gyeon Cure or Carpro Reload or Merlin’s Elixer would knock these blobby beads out of the park!!
 
Been about a week since I last updated, I will try to grab pictures at some point. So I haven’t washed the car in almost 2 weeks since coating was applied. We’ve been getting storms almost daily in Illinois so I’ve been able to monitor the sheeting and beading at least. It always seems a little underwhelming at first but after a drive it all comes back, tighter and more symmetrical beads that just run the moment the car moves. It also seems to be cleaner than normal especially with all the rain we’ve had lately. I’m remaining optimistic that it’s bonded well enough and with proper maintenance it’ll hold up through winter.
 
Missed your updates a week ago. But awesome to hear it works for you. Will be interesting to hear how you experience the coating after the first wash. Maybe it's how the car you have it on and the angles of the panels you took pictures on or if it's dirty. It seems like sheeting is not so good when the car stands still. That useally coatings is very good at when the water accumulates to get the beads to be big enough they roll off more than the looks on the pictures. And when you wash your car and it feels easier to do is also a benefit that would be interesting to hear how you experience that from the first wash.

Great testing and looking forward to see the thoughts and your experience with your testing in the longrun.

/ Tony
 
Tony,

Thanks for your input, we’ve been getting rain pretty regularly here and I’m usually not able to clean the car when the weather clears. I had a chance Monday afternoon, but alas a last minute call from a client came up. I’m looking forward to getting a wash in just to see if it’s any different to clean during the wash and especially afterward. This will most likely be a waterless wash or pre treat waterless and rinseless bucket wash.

I’m less than impressed by the water behavior to be honest. I have used many spray and rinse products in the past(HyrdoBlue, WetCoat, Hydro2) and the beading and sheeting I had experienced with those and their respective toppers(Merlin’s elixer, Cure, Reload) left me quite pleased. I will say the self cleaning aspect does seem to be there from the heavier rains and even while driving where I don’t have a large buildup of water spotting or film. The sheeting effect is quite noticeable then, as the water seems to bead together and roll off.
 
Ok, I know it’s been a while, I’m not the best at these, although I lurk a lot and post somewhat often, I haven’t updated this thread it 2 weeks. So this will be a long rundown of the past 2 weeks and where I’m at now with everything.

On 10/5 I gave the car a waterless wash with ONR(I know not the n914 I had planned, but it was mixed and ready to go and didn’t want to dump it out) and dried with no drying aid just to see how it felt. The ONR seemed to have a slow sheeting look to it like the coating was “rejecting” it. As I went to dry to my surprise it was extremely “tacky” feeling and not slick at all. Idk how to explain it other than how the paint feels when you wash a car that you know hasn’t had any LSP applied in years and is just beat. It wasn’t anywhere near that, but trying to give an example of the tacky feeling, the paint dried fine though unlike a completely dead LSP where the water just seems to stay on the panel as you dry.

Not happy with how it felt I decided to split the car in half, leaving the roof with no topper and using a 50/50 mix of Mckees Trademark Spray Wax and their 10-Minute Sealant as a drying aid over the rest of the car. This was a pleasure to work with and really enhanced the paint. I didn’t want to do it, I know Tony(SWETM) was looking to see how far it could go without any toppers, but I just couldn’t help myself at that point.

From then til today(10/18) we had a couple rain showers and one big one. The roof still was showing that something was still there, but it was looking “lazy” with large non-symmetrical beads through out, sheeting was ok, but seeing the areas that were topped up was like looking at a failing LSP and a fresh one. At that point I decided to call it quits on the experiment. Today I took it over to the coin-op(apartment life), gave it a full decon(APC wash,iron decon and claybar), washed and rinse and then put M37 HydroBlue and dried with Sonax BSD.

Few things I’ll take away from this:
1)because of my very minimal prep, I have no way of knowing if the coating bonded well and the morning dew killed it off prematurely or if it never bonded well to begin with.
2)I wish I could’ve tried to apply the coating with a thorough prep(tar/iron decon, clay and IPA prep spray) but no polish to see if it would take well to that.
3)As somebody who does mobile work, a coating might not be the best thing to give the customer if they too park outside and may be susceptible to dew.
4)More than likely this failed due to my lousy prep first and foremost as it’s totally against Mckees37 Coating instructions and all others that I’m aware of.

Thanks for taking the time to look over this thread and read it. Sorry if I didn’t give much updates but it’s only been a month and in that time I didn’t have much to show or give. From the get go it didn’t seem like it was going to turn out well, but figured I’d give it a go as I was interested(and deep down hoping) in seeing if this could be a viable option to quickly apply a coating. If it was able to bond well enough, even if it failed early, but could give coating protection in the 6 month window of most sealants, I would’ve been pleased! Oh well on to the next!!
 
I really liked this thread. I read every word.

Great experiment and info! :props:
 
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