Clay bar

[chief]

If you detail a vehicle with WG 3.0 paint sealant and then carnauba wax, after a while the carnauba will wear off before the paint sealant. Say in about a month and a half you decide to apply a new, additional layer of carnauba over the paint sealant to prolong the life of the paint sealant before you have to detail the car from scratch. Prior to putting a fresh layer of carnauba wax, it would be a good idea to remove any contaminants from the paint surface to prevent swirl marks and scratches.

If you clay the vehicle, is it going to take old remains of carnauba off? Also, will the paint sealant be affected by claying?

 

[Shade Tree]

If you detail a vehicle with WG 3.0 paint sealant and then carnauba wax, after a while the carnauba will wear off before the paint sealant. Say in about a month and a half you decide to apply a new, additional layer of carnauba over the paint sealant to prolong the life of the paint sealant before you have to detail the car from scratch. Prior to putting a fresh layer of carnauba wax, it would be a good idea to remove any contaminants from the paint surface to prevent swirl marks and scratches.

If you clay the vehicle, is it going to take old remains of carnauba off? Also, will the paint sealant be affected by claying?

It depends on the grade of clay you're using as to whether you'll remove the sealant in the process. As a rule of thumb it is always best to reapply sealant or wax after a clay bar treatment.

In short yes, the carnauba will most likely be removed as it isn't meant as a long lasting treatment for paint. The sealant may have some remnants, but plan on some being removed as well.

 

[chief]

What would be the correct way to apply a new layer of wax over a still good paint sealant (month 1/2 old) without scratching the paint with micro particles.

 

[Shade Tree]

What would be the correct way to apply a new layer of wax over a still good paint sealant (month 1/2 old) without scratching the paint with micro particles.

A proper 2 bucket wash method, dry and reapply the wax. If you ever want to strip the sealant off & start fresh then using Dawn dish soap works as a great paint cleanser to do so.

If you're applying wax over a coat a month and a half old then most likely there isn't that much of the carnauba left anyway. That would be true if you're using a mediocre wax rather than a high quality.

 

[chief]

Thanks for your help,
Will Klasse AIO strip all the paint sealant as well?

What about "quick detailer" sealant such as WG spritz detailer sealant or DP final gloss. Can either of these products be applied over a layer of Carnauba wax?

 

[Shade Tree]

Thanks for your help,
Will Klasse AIO strip all the paint sealant as well?

What about "quick detailer" sealant such as WG spritz detailer sealant or DP final gloss. Can either of these products be applied over a layer of Carnauba wax?

No worries .......

Yes, Klasse AIO is a cleaner/prewax and contains mild abrasives and woulld remove any protection the paint currently has.

The products you mention may be used over the carnauba, however with each application the carnauba will begin to weaken. These QD products are meant as a temporary cleaner/gloss enhancer and have very little protection qualities. In other words, after a wash ...... go for it. Otherwise, apply a carnauba once a month to keep things fresh.

I typically wax my BMW 2-3 times per week & polish once per month ...... OCD sucks. rops:

 

[ScottB]

most clays will remove all of most 'nuba waxes and some/all of a sealant. They are abrasive .. well most, but you can get a lighter clay like Pinnacles Ultra (green).

 

[Shade Tree]

most clays will remove all of most 'nuba waxes and some/all of a sealant. They are abrasive .. well most, but you can get a lighter clay like Pinnacles Ultra (green).

Didn't I just say that?? :iagree:

 

[Kurt_s]

I agree with Shade Tree.

Wash your car and apply another layer of wax if the wax is only 2 weeks old. You don't have to clay every time you wax. I don't normally need to clay my car more than 2x-3x per year, but my cars are garaged DDs and washed 1x per week. Plus we don't see a lot of rain.

Try the baggie test to see if you need to clay before adding another layer of wax. If you put your hand into a plastic baggie and gently move your hand across the paint, it should feel glass smooth even after a couple months if you keep it clean. The sealants and waxes are there to protect your paint and help keep fallout from sticking with proper car washing.

I used a carnauba paste wax for many years (still use it occasionally) where the owners told me to wait 48 hours between layers. One week between coats was fine as it allowed the wax to fully cure. A little trick that I was taught to minimize swirls with paste wax. I was told to apply the first coat linearly from front to back (no circles). The second coat should be applied perpendicular to the first coat (again no circles)

 

[chief]

Ok, another clay bar question.

I used WG 3.0 paint sealant with a coat of carnauba wax on top about a month ago. Today, I decided to put a new coat of carnauba wax on this car.

This car is a daily driver and is never garaged. It is always exposed to the road and weather elements. After washing the car, the paint was smooth, but not super smooth as one would expect. I decided to clay a little area and see how it turned out. My white clay bar was all yellow!!! So, I clayed the rest of the vehicle and put a new layer of 'nuba wax.

I've heard people say you shouldn't use clay more than 3-4 times a year. Is using clay bad for the paint or clear coat? what about paint sealant?

If the car gets so contaminated after a month on the road, would it be better to clay it every time before applying new layer of carnauba wax or should I just forget applying carnauba wax and wait 3-4 months before claying, polishing and reapplying paint sealant?

 

[artofdetailing]

Heres a trick for everybody... after washing the car (while it is still wet spray either a quick detailer or clay lube) run the pinnacle poly clay over the entire car. It is not an aggressive clay and can be used often. Then rinse the car off and dry with the guzzler...

 

[Dubbin1]

most clays will remove all of most 'nuba waxes and some/all of a sealant. They are abrasive .. well most, but you can get a lighter clay like Pinnacles Ultra (green).

Plus the Pinnacle clay is BOGO now

 

[toxygene]

No worries .......

Yes, Klasse AIO is a cleaner/prewax and contains mild abrasives and woulld remove any protection the paint currently has.

The products you mention may be used over the carnauba, however with each application the carnauba will begin to weaken. These QD products are meant as a temporary cleaner/gloss enhancer and have very little protection qualities. In other words, after a wash ...... go for it. Otherwise, apply a carnauba once a month to keep things fresh.

I typically wax my BMW 2-3 times per week & polish once per month ...... OCD sucks. rops:

According to the description on AG, KAIO contains no abrasives, but it is supposed to remove old wax. I assume it must do so chemically.

And you really polish your car once per month? Is that a good idea?

 

[artofdetailing]

you can polish your car once a month for sure but you have to use a final polish like nano...
and i use the nano with a green pad...

 

[Dubbin1]

According to the description on AG, KAIO contains no abrasives, but it is supposed to remove old wax. I assume it must do so chemically.

Klasse All In One Polish will remove oxidation, minor swirls, old wax, and other surface blemishes

It must have some kind of abrasives in it to do what they claim above As a matter of fact I just tested some the other day and it did remove minor swirls.

 

[artofdetailing]

Klasse All In One Polish will remove oxidation, minor swirls, old wax, and other surface blemishes

It must have some kind of abrasives in it to do what they claim above As a matter of fact I just tested some the other day and it did remove minor swirls.

It does it chemically not through abrasives...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

This car is a daily driver and is never garaged. It is always exposed to the road and weather elements. After washing the car, the paint was smooth, but not super smooth as one would expect. I decided to clay a little area and see how it turned out. My white clay bar was all yellow!!!

Whatever is in the air where your car is parked will be what lands on the paint and to some level bonds to the paint. It's all about what's in the air around your car. In other words, air-borne contaminants.

I've heard people say you shouldn't use clay more than 3-4 times a year. Is using clay bad for the paint or clear coat? what about paint sealant?

It's not a matter of "time" that determines how often you clay your car's paint, it's about "what's" in the air that determines how often you clay your car's paint.

Don't make claying into rocket science.

If you feel contaminants on your car's paint you need to remove them in order to restore gloss and shine and so your choice of wax or paint sealant can bond properly and thus last a long time and thus protect a long time.

If you don't use clay... what else can you use that's safer to remove above surface bonded contaminants?

If the car gets so contaminated after a month on the road, would it be better to clay it every time before applying new layer of carnauba wax or should I just forget applying carnauba wax and wait 3-4 months before claying, polishing and reapplying paint sealant?

You could do either, depends upon how great you want your paint to look.

You could also use a cleaner/wax if the car is a daily driver, parked outside all the time. Clay and then cleaner/wax.

I find that anytime a car's paint needs to be clayed, it also needs to be cleaned, either with a dedicated paint cleaner or with a cleaner/wax.

Heres a trick for everybody... after washing the car (while it is still wet spray either a quick detailer or clay lube) run the pinnacle poly clay over the entire car.
It is not an aggressive clay and can be used often. Then rinse the car off and dry with the guzzler...

And here's something I posted about this today already... FWIW

ONR and Claying?

excerpts...

Hey all,

I know that ONR can be used as a clay lube, but my question is, could you clay the car as you wash it with ONR, or should it be washed, dried, then clayed?

This question comes up a lot on all forums and the short answer is, some detailers will wash the car and rinse it to remove all the loosened dirt and abrasive particles and then while the paint is still wet use their soapy wash water as the lubricant and quickly clay the paint and then rinse and dry.

This saves drying the car only to get it wet again during the claying process with your clay lube.

The problem is if you don't get all the dirt particles thoroughly rinsed off the car then picking up just one abrasive particle into the clay could mean scratches throughout all the panels clayed.

I've seen horror stories from people that have tried this and not been successful and I've watched production detail shops do this as a standard procedure.

 

[toxygene]

Klasse All In One Polish will remove oxidation, minor swirls, old wax, and other surface blemishes

It must have some kind of abrasives in it to do what they claim above As a matter of fact I just tested some the other day and it did remove minor swirls.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here. The way I understood it, it does not remove swirls, it just makes them less noticeable by filling them in. Eventually it should wear off and you will see them return. It's a good option then, say, if your customer doesn't want to pay for a full correction. You can at least mask the appearance of the swirls, then top with another sealant.

Can't say I've tried KAIO on my paint yet, but it works great for cleaning up the chrome trim, beak, and emblems on my TL.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here. The way I understood it, it does not remove swirls, it just makes them less noticeable by filling them in.

As I understand it, Klasse AIO is a non-abrasive product.

Removing any "Below Surface Defects", like swirls, scratches or Type II Water Spots requires the surface to be abraded in an effort to level the highest point of the surface with the lowest depths of the defects you're trying to remove.

Generally speaking, modern clear coats are harder than traditional single stage paints and in order to remove below surface defects you'll need to abrade the surface to some level.


The thing most people leave out of the equation when dissecting topics like this are,

• Application material
• Application process

Factors that affect how aggressive or non-aggressive a product is...


Klasse AIO may not be abrasive but if you applied it with a wool cutting pad on a rotary buffer you could indeed remove paint but the Klasse AIO would be basically acting as a lubricant and the fibers of the wool pad cutting the paint.

Since paints differ in polishabilty, it could be possible to remove swirls using Klasse AIO and a cutting or polishing pad on a DA Polisher for the same reasons mentioned above.

But in and of itself, according to the information here,

Klasse ALL-IN-ONE Polish

Klasse All-In-One contains no abrasives


So that would mean it relies on chemical cleaning agents for it's cleaning ability.


One thing for sure, if I'm working on a car that needs the swirls removed I wouldn't choose Klasse AIO I would use a product specifically recommended and formulated for removing swirls.

 

[chief]

It's not a matter of "time" that determines how often you clay your car's paint, it's about "what's" in the air that determines how often you clay your car's paint.

Don't make claying into rocket science.

If you feel contaminants on your car's paint you need to remove them in order to restore gloss and shine and so your choice of wax or paint sealant can bond properly and thus last a long time and thus protect a long time.

If you don't use clay... what else can you use that's safer to remove above surface bonded contaminants?

Seems to me the clay is the best for the job, what I am afraid of if I don't clay prior to applying new coat of wax in between full detail jobs, I will scratch the paint with contaminants during waxing process.

You could also use a cleaner/wax if the car is a daily driver, parked outside all the time. Clay and then cleaner/wax.

This will strip the paint sealant correct?



Thanks