Clear coat repair

I appreciate all you help Don. I am a total novice to this whole detailing hobby. I have always kept my cars in very nice shape. Wash, wax, keep it away from other cars in parking lot, and garaged. So I have a 1990 Supra that shines like a new car. This is without claying or using a buffer. Just frequent washings, keeping it out of the sun, and using a good polish and a very good wax. I read this website and I am overwhelmed. All these different products. Too many choices! Not healthy. I heard of claying but if the car is clean, and washing with soap there really is nothing left to clay. Only thing on the car is wax. That is the problem with this clear coat project. I don't want to wetsand the headlight or nose. Just would like to get the wax off to get adherence. Like you said I would have to leave the clear on for about a week, if not wetsanding. Just wondering why do so many guys clay before they even start working on scratches. I guess it lubricates the surface and helps.
I have never used a paint sealant either. I mean...you could make this into a 2 year graduate program with all the info and products! Do you think I should clay to deal with these minor defects. Or just get off the wax. The car has no contaminants. It is garaged 95% of the time. A good soapy washing/dry and the surface feels very smooth. I did buy a mother's clay bar, but returned to Pep boys. I just thought it was a little over the top. And of course....it's not going to fix my defect. Curious what your thoughts are on this.
Again, thanks Don...I really appreciate all your help.
 
Clay bars do not fix defects. They work kind of like the tape pet hair rollers. You wipe the clay over the surface and it picks up stuff that washing will not. Not a necessary thing to do but it gets all of the contaminants off of the paint. As far as wet sanding clearcoat. I never use anything coarser than 1500 grit. Use the 2000 that you have. Place the paper in a bucket of warm soapy water for about 15-30 minutes before sanding. This will assure that the paper is completely saturated. Fold or tear the paper in small sections like 4" x4". something easy to control. Wet the clearcoat that you will sand and keep it wet. I usually run a garden hose while I sand. You don't need a ton of water you just need it wet. As you are lightly gliding the paper across the clearcoat you will notice the water getting milky colored. That is the clearcoat that you are removing. Sand in two different directions so all of the scratches aren't going in one direction. After sanding for a short time, I usually go by feel, stop sanding and dry the area. The shiny areas that remain are low spots that the paper didn't hit. I usually "knock down" the orange peel, not remove it completely. You will have to decide for yourself how far you want to go. Once you have it how you want it it is time to buff it out. You will need an aggressive compound to remove the scratches. For the small headlight cover I would recommend doing it by hand. Once it starts to shine you can polish out the rest of the scratches usually and then wax it. Sounds difficult but it really isn't. I strongly recommend you buy some cheap clearcoat and practice this on something. Anything that has auto paint on it that isn't part of your vehicle. Go to a junkyard if you have no parts laying around and pick up anything small that has halfway decent paint on it. Just pick up something that is cheap cheap cheap. Get the feel of it and then get to work. As far as the bumper I am not sure. Hard to figure that one out without seeing it

Don
 
RedXray said:
wut :confused:
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I agree. I was told wet sanding would help the clear coat to adhere. Dadillac is talking about what to do after applying clear coat over a defect. I basically have a few etch spots each about the size of half a dime on the headlight of my car. You really can't see it unless you are on top of it. I though I could take it out from wetsanding with 2000 grit, and megs compound and polish. The wetsanding did not take the etching out, although it is a little less obvious. I was upset when the wetsanding and polish did not work, because it did not look like it went thru the clear. I had a bit of very hot engine coolant spray on the headlight from a busted hose. I should have kept my hood shut, but I saw coolant pouring out of the bottom of my car.
Dadillac, wants me a total novice, to get the wax off the headlight with soap and alcohol and then spray a few light coats of clear and then a medium coat. Then he said wait about a week for adherence, and polish out the orange peel. He has been very helpful and has given exact instructions. I agree you don't wetsand and then apply clear. I would like to practice. But I am concerned I could make a cloudy mess. He told me the where to order the clear from. I actually ordered some touch pt from this place. The defects are in the back of the headlight. I drive with the headlights up so you only see a little bit. There is some black engine coolant that did burn thru the clear down to the paint. So I really don't know whether it is better to have the area cleared, or do a repaint and clear. It is a lot of work for a little bit of barely noticeable damage. I also don't think a body shop could get a good color match. I am afraid I would have two different colored headlights. I am leaning towards a re clear to fix minor defects, and drive around with headlights up like I have been doing. But the body shop wants to put down new base coat. He said, " you just can't put on new clear, you have to add base coat if you are sanding the clear down." I don't know... I haven't showed it to him but when he see the whole headlight, that is a little bent in the back and the black coolant, he is going to want to paint and clear. With the headlights up most of this stuff is under the hood. It doesn't really bother me. It is a 90 Supra, darkl blue pearl paint and not easy to match. Curious what would you do in my situation? Pick your poison. Oh by the way.....the damage you can see with headlights up is some minor etching of clear. About 3 spots the size of half a dime each. I went over it with my finger nail and did not feel anything so I thought I could wet sand it out. Didn't happen. I was told it's thru the clear, even though it's doesn't catch your finger nail. But the etching area does feel rough to the touch.
 
Hope you are having a good weekend Don. As far as clearing I read the pro shops use the two stage clear coat. The one with the hardener. This creates a durable long lasting clear coat surface. I have seen online that one stage clear does not last as long.
I really wish I had a good spray gun, and all the equipment needed to do my own repair work. The shops around my area are ridiculously expensive and some do good work and some don't. And they generally are not pleasant people to deal with. I don't have any dents or any major body work. Just really a few spots with some clear coat problems.
As far as the end of the nose I will try to send you a pic. You really can't see it on a cloudy day. Again, like a lot of these things you have to be looking straight on in the sunlight. The whole nose was repainted. They did an excellent job. Mirror smooth. But someone when they wet sanded the clear on the very tip of the nose in the middle, went a little too far or they just burned thru the clear when buffing it out. I know you need a pic. Again, it's a tiny spot on the tip of the nose of the plastic bumper. If you step back in the sunlight you see a little bit of light blue. It could also use a little clear on it.
Again, it's a tough situation because it is so tiny and barely noticeable. Probably best to leave it alone. But I am just wondering if you have ever heard of people spraying new clear over old and blending it? Is that possible? I have read it is hard to do. You will see a line where the new clear ends and the new begins. I will keep you posted on my exterior defect follies. Again thanks, Paul
 
Under normal circumstances you always wetsand the clear before applying more clear. But since you have already wetsanded the area, if you wetsand it again, you may burn through the clear that is on there now. That is why I say do not wetsand the area before adding more. If you burn through you are likely doing a complete repaint. And as far as spray cans being as good as properly sprayed paint. The spray can paint will always be lagging behind. It just isn't the same. But if you get good quality paint the gap isn't that wide.

Don
 
As far as blending clear. I feel it is much easier than blending color. When blending clear you do not spray it to a tape line. You spray the area to cover. Each coat gets sprayed a little further out. Then you wetsand the entire area to knock down the overspray that will be around the edges. I would much rather spray and blend clear than a color/clear area. Just my preference

Don
 
Oh and lastly. Right now you have an issue that may need a repaint. Trying this fix will cost minimal $ and may save you the time and cost of the paint job. Most places by me will not paint anything for less than $250. No matter the size. So if you try the clearcoat and it doesn't come out as you would like you really aren't in any worse shape than before. Only you can decide if you want to try and repair the area. If you can live with it then leave well enough alone. If it will bother you always then give it a shot. If it bothers you that much you probably will get the headlight cover repainted anyway. So nothing to lose really and a lot to gain

Don
 
Again thanks. I guess clear does not atomize as well from a can as it does from a spray gun. Just ain't gonna happen whether it is clear or color. That's why I prefer a pro with a spray gun to get a better result.
Like you said, I do have nothing to lose. I could order that two stage clear(with hardener) and do the 2 light coats and then one medium. I would try to first take the painted headlight cover off. It requires a few screws. The black from the engine coolant will always be there unless a repaint is done. But that is concealed under the hood just like the tiny dent. I will see what the body guy says. This guy is a bit of a scumbag. He would get impounded cars from the cops, when people were arrested for DWI's towed to his place. He would then switch a good battery and put in a lousy one. The body shop guys in my area are not great people, and I generally try to avoid them. That's why I am careful with my car. AND WISH I HAD THE EQUIPMENT TO DO THIS MYSELF AS I ENJOY IT AS A HOBBY!
Anyway...it is so minor the average person would live with it. But if I can clear it I might try it. Would have to be careful not to get a tapeline around the side of the headlight, as that area is NOT CLEARED. Only the top is cleared. Picture a pop up headlight that is dark blue on top, and on the sides it has an unfinished light blue look. It's the same on both sides....just came out of the factory that way. I would have to tape the sides, and most likely take the thing off or I would have to tape the fender, nose and sides to avoid over spray.
I understand what you are saying about the nose. I could feather it out and do three coats. I guess with no tape line it will blend. Of course wet sanding I find to be a bit scary. I am afraid I could over do it. I am a strong guy and don't realize my strength and could wetsand too much clear off. Have to be careful. Also I don't have a lot of patience so I want to see a result fast. That's not how it works.
But I will order that two stage clear, take off the headlight and do as you eloquently instructed. I guess when you say alcohol you mean the kind you use for cleaning a wound(lol). That would avoid using solvent. The only thing on the headlight is wax. Not going to wetsand anymore.
I have a guy I know who does his own body work. I met him on Supramania when I sold him an old interior panel. He is out in the Midwest, on a big farm about 250 miles away from anywhere. He is in Northern Minnesota. Nice old guy who is into Supra's and has the equipment. I am tempted to bubble pack and sent out the two headlights to him so he can see the color. He is already painting a dark blue pearl Supra so he has the color. I have talked to him at length and he seems like a legit guy. He had to trust me when he sent me money, I am tempted to send the headlights out to him. Just may never get them back. He told me he would do a factory level job. I am going to talk to him tomorrow. I just alienated one body shop, and they won't work with me. They did inferior work and did not want to redo it.
Curious what area you are from? Sounds like an upper class suburb like mine. $250 to paint 7x7 inches? That's probably what this guy would charge me. And the color might not even come out right. But this guy has been in business for 25 years, but he is unpleasant and switched a battery on me. Not someone I want to give my money to.
Also I guess that "lag" you talk about is not as severe with clear coat. I guess the difference in spray gun and can is greater with basecoat. With clear if you do is skillfully it could come out pretty good from a can, because you can always wetsand and polish. Painting base is different. If you put down rough or uneven base, no sanding or polishing is going to help. Might make it a little better, but still will not look factory. Just my two cents worth. Also wondering if you have ever checked out the Junkman video's. AA guy who does all of his work out of garage. He has two hours of video's up about everything from painting to defect removal. But he know his stuff and has the equipment. I don't even know which grit to use for each step. I wetsanded the clear with 2000. Done with that. As far as what to use for paint, or bondo I wouldn't have a clue.
I really wish I could do this stuff myself. But my garage is not big enough and I don't have the equipment. Sounds like my buddy out on his farm, doesn't have much to do. He is a car guy, worked for Chrysler and has a lot of technical knowledge. Maybe sending the lights bubble packed out to him might be the way to go. No risk....no reward.
 
What did you get on your Supra's headlight cover and what does it look like? Oh yeah, can you put up a picture? Did you say it was blue?
 
Hazcat said:
What did you get on your Supra's headlight cover and what does it look like? Oh yeah, can you put up a picture? Did you say it was blue?
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I haven't taken a pic because the car has been garaged for over a week. I got very hot engine coolant on the driver's side pop up headlight of a 90 dark blue pearl color code 8G5 metallic Toyota Supra. I went over some rough roads. I parked the car on a hill. And then I looked back and saw green engine coolant pouring out of the bottom of the car. I popped open the hood to see what happened. The hose from the engine coolant somehow had torn open. Don't asked me how it happened. The mechanic thought it was rot. I never saw any rot, I think it was going over some rough roads and the engine moved around. Anyway....when I opened the hood this hot engine coolant spurted onto the headlight. It burned down thru the clear and left one tiny dark spot, and three half dime sized etchings. I tried to wetsand it out with 2000, it did not come out. Made it look a bit better. You don't see it if you don't know about it. These are tiny defects that can only be seen if you know where it is, and looking at in from the right angle. But it bothers me because there is not a mark on the rest of the car. I have taken very good care of it and it looks showroom. No defects, sratches, nothing....maybe a minor ding. Think of tiny bird poop etchings each about 3mm in diameter in three locations. Obviously it is deep because the wetsand did not take it out. It's down thru the clear. So I was told to clean the wax off the area and re clear it using a two stage clear with hardener. There is no damage to the paint. I drive with the headlights up, so the black spot is under the hood and I can live with it. I don't want to repaint as it is a tough color to match. A dark metallic blue for a 90? I don't think the two headlight covers are going to match. A good professional re clear would take care of the etchings and I could live with the rest.
I am thinking about sending it out to my buddy because he has done this for years and is working on a Supra with the same color. I could send both headlights to help him match it. A local body shop is going to want to repaint from primer. It's going to be expensive, and not really necessary for such small damage. Most people would just live with this. But if you are on this site, you are not like most people when it comes to your car. Matter of picking your poison. Thanks for your response.
 
Actually I have a few pics of the damage I have been talking about. Not the greatest.
 
Here is one shot. Basically some holes that went down thru clear, a few lines in the clear, and some roughness. I wetsanded and this stuff did not come out. The engine coolant went down thru the clear. I know it needs to be recleared. Also was wondering about the solvents they use to blend clear. When are they used? just after clear is sprayed? I am obviously talking about another part of my car. This requires the entire headlight to be recleared. And if anyone knows how to take the top off of a 90 supra, let me know. I know a guy who want to do a repaint. But would have to take the top off. It does not look easy.
 
Dadillac said:
Oh and lastly. Right now you have an issue that may need a repaint. Trying this fix will cost minimal $ and may save you the time and cost of the paint job. Most places by me will not paint anything for less than $250. No matter the size. So if you try the clearcoat and it doesn't come out as you would like you really aren't in any worse shape than before. Only you can decide if you want to try and repair the area. If you can live with it then leave well enough alone. If it will bother you always then give it a shot. If it bothers you that much you probably will get the headlight cover repainted anyway. So nothing to lose really and a lot to gain

Don
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Hey Don, just wanted to update you on what's going on. Took my car to a body shop and he would want to do a repaint because of the tiny black spots at the bottom. I can live with those because you can't see them unless you are right on top of them. He would want $100. What is bothering me is the etching in the clear. I did the water test and you don't see the etching. I don't want to do a repaint, and the body guy doesn't want to get involved because he can't guarantee a color match. It is a dark blue pearl for a 90 Supra color code 8G5. Not an easy color to match. You can get the color right, but then the amount of metallic isn't the same.
I have also seen they have some clear coat blenders. It is essentially a spray that you spray around the edges to get the new clear to blend with the old. The headlight is about 7" long and about 6" wide. I was thinking of hitting the back third 2x6 inches and then blending it. Dupont has a site that sells 2k clear(24 hour shelf life), acrylic clear, and a blending spray. I know you want me to spray the whole headlight, but basically the front 3/4 is very nice and shiny and would rather not play with that. You have to understand I am a novice at this. I am concerned that I would just make a cloudy mess. There is a lot of wax, that I guess I could take off with alcohol.
Just wondering what your thoughts are. The body shop guys know I am meticulous with my car and don't want to touch it. So I am kinda on my own. Curious what you thought of the Dupont products. Just wondering whether it is better to buy the standard clear shown in your link or the 2k which is supposedly better but has a short shelf life. I have also heard Rustoleum makes a very good clear. Take a look at my pics and tell me what you think.
 
T3 AutoDetails said:
Do you have any pics of the damage?
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I have some pics of the damage. I know these are long over due. It's in the back third of a pop up headlight of a 90 Supra. Color is dark blue pearl color code 8G5. A lot of body shops don't want to touch it because it would be hard to get the amount of metallic to match. Headlight is about 7"x6". Been giving advice about which is the best clear coat spray to use. I have also heard that Dupont sells a clear coat blending agent. Essentially you spray the edge of the new clear when it is still wet to get it to blend. I know the idea is to feather it out, and have less new clear as you go away from the original spot. I don't want to do a repaint. First the color probably will not match, and two the damage is so minimal it is not worth it. However, I would like to get rid of the etching and holes in the clear. It won't be perfect, but at least it will be an improvement. Again we are talking about a small area hear. I have three different areas of damage that is spread out over a 2"x6" area.
I tried wetsanding with 2000 grit and the etching did not come out. So it is thru most of the clear if not all of it. Some good clear that levels well would fill in most of the damage. A few lights coats and then a medium coat would probably cover most of the damage up. But I am really a novice and am afraid that I would make the thing look worse.
 
Blending is only for large panels where you don't want to repaint the entire panel. Or when you do repaint an entire panel and you want to blend the color into the surrounding panels. For such a small piece you will want to clear the whole piece. Even a pro wouldn't try to blend such a small piece. And since you aren't doing the color coat there is no chance of a mismatch. Get the clear from auto touchup, a small can should do, but I usually get a large can so I know I won't run out. Strip off the wax using dish washing liquid. Dry and then do an alcohol rubdown. Mask off everything except the light cover and start spraying. Never start or stop a spray "swipe" while you are over the area you are clearing. Start off the piece and stop once you have gone past the piece. Your small light cover will not take long at all. Give it a week to cure before you do anything to the area. Do not even wash it. After a week you can check how it matches with the surrounding area and wetsand to match the smoothness. Best if you don't wax the area for a month but I have never had an issue with waxing after a couple of weeks.

If you can live with the defect please just leave it as is. Some issues aren't worth the trouble.

Don
 
Oh and it is best to paint when the humidity is very low. I paint in my basement when I can so weather isn't an issue. But direct sunlight and humidity are not good things. Shade the area and do it on a clear low humid day.

Don
 
Great instructions so far. If not previously mentioned take off the headlight cover if it's easy to do so. Not imperative but it will be easier to refinish.

Continue sanding with 2000 to take the etching out as much as possible remember to use a sanding block. Just go down to the base coat not thought it or if the etching holes level out before stop sanding.

While at the automotive paint store get a couple tack cloths and a paint degreaser. You want the part surgically clean before you spray the clear.

Spray a light tack coat first followed by a couple medium coats with flash time inbetween (10-15 minutes should be good between coats)

This is not difficult to do but if you want to practice first pick up a small junk yard panel or similar headlight to practice on.
 
Thanks magnus. Headlight cover ain't coming off. The black plastic part comes off quite easily. But on you take that off, the cover has two screws on each side holding them in. Those are so tight no Philips head or anything is going to take them off. I tried some wd40. You need a socket wrench. I may go to my mechanic to have it removed.
As far as sanding with the 2000 I don't think that would be a good idea at this point. It's NOT going to improve the etching. All it will do is mar the clear coat. So I think it's a matter of degreasing, tack cloth and the right humidity. Practicing will help. I do need to get the feel of the whole thing.
Also I wanted to thank Don(Dadillac). I did order some Dupont 12.5 oz acrylic clear. It's about twice as expensive as the stuff you mentioned from microfinish. Actually I did order some touch up and clear touch up from then. It's from this site paintworld. I just wanted to ask Don whether it makes a difference. I have heard Dupont acrylic clear is pretty good. I didn't want to get the one with the 2k activator because that has a 24 hr pot life and I may want to use it in the future. I think would be fine for my needs. Just wondering if you have heard anything about this stuff or used it before. thanks again
 
Dadillac said:
I will assume the whole headlight cover is smaller than 12" x 12". I would get a can of "real" clearcoat. Since this is a small area spray the entire piece. Buy it online from a place like Automotivetouchup.com Touch Up Paint, Aerosol Spray Paint and Touchup Paint Accessories | AutomotiveTouchup | 888-710-5192. The stuff in auto parts stores isn't bad but I feel it doesn't hold up well. Again if you wet the area and the defect disappears then clearcoat will give the same effect. Two light coats and a medium wet coat should do it. After it dries for a week or so you can wet sand (very lightly) to even out some of the orange peel. If you take your time and reference the surrounding panels you can get a fairly even amount of orange peel on the new clear as what is on the rest of the car.

Don
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Thanx , might be handy one day .
 
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