Cloudy/hazy paint; would like some advice/opinions

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kodobuff3

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Hey guys,

I'm still relatively new here so please bear with me :) (thank you!)

This might turn out to be a longer question so I just want everyone to know that I really appreciate any knowledge you can share. So here goes.

I drive a 2014 Mazda 3 Sport GS (Canadian trim level). Rewind about 6 months... my brand new car goes into the body shop (under full manufacturer warranty) in order to get an entirely new hood shipped from Japan and installed; then painted by the shop. At the time, I had no idea you're not supposed to seal up the paint with wax or synthetic sealant until at least 30 days. Sometimes longer.

So anyway, not knowing this knowledge I did after about 1 week upon retrieving the car from the shop. When I picked it up, it was after hours so no one had the chance to fill me in on this vital info. Fast forward to today...

I got a dent/rock chip on the hood which isn't part of the problem. Upon inspecting the dent, I noticed the paint to be sort of blurry almost, cloudy compared to other areas of the car. I will try to submit some photographs for you to inspect.

Upon viewing this information, would you say that I caused the blurryness in the paint by sealing to soon after the repaint? And my most important question... would you say get it redone or could I buff this hood back up to a show-car shine?

Compared with the roof, for example, as you can ascertain from the pics, the hood is just marry/cloudy/hazy/dull and blurry looking in my opinion.

Thank you all for your comments/recommendations.
 
In my entire life in this industry I've NEVER seen a brand new paint job fail (in any way), because someone waxed it too soon and sealed the paint surface.


Waxing or applying a synthetic paint sealant or a paint coating = Sealing the paint.
(whether it's fresh or cured)


I've written half a dozen articles on the topic of NOT doing this because I don't know of a single PAINT MANUFACTURER that officially recommends sealing fresh paint before 30 days. So I'm not going to go against the official recommendation of a company for their paint, especially for the cost of most paint jobs.

Lots of people on detailing discussion forums say it's safe and personally recommend this to other forum members but I don't know any of them that are also Reps or employees or even chemists for the dozen or so paint manufacturers in the world. So that just makes it their opinion and their recommendation for someone else's fresh paint.


Back to the issue...

How many days passed from the time the car came out of the paint booth to the time that you sealed it?

What did you use to seal the paint?


:)
 
It's hard to tell anything from those pictures, but if the (refinished) hood doesn't look as good as the rest of the car, I highly doubt it's from anything you did, but simply the quality of the refinish is not as good as the factory panels.

As Mike likes to say, painters know a lot about painting, but frequently not about detailing (or something like that). I'm sure Mike will be able to walk you through shining that hood up or find you someone who can.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
It's hard to tell anything from those pictures, but if the (refinished) hood doesn't look as good as the rest of the car, I highly doubt it's from anything you did, but simply the quality of the refinish is not as good as the factory panels.

As Mike likes to say, painters know a lot about painting, but frequently not about detailing (or something like that). I'm sure Mike will be able to walk you through shining that hood up or find you someone who can.
Click to expand...

Thanks to you and Mike for the prompt replies. Also, since I've now a dent/chip, I'm debating whether to just get paintless dent repair done, and buff out the hood myself, or just go through my insurance to have the hood repainted.

It's a tough choice!

Thanks again.
 
Would you kind folks, in your expert-opinions, say that this is a problem that buffing could restore?
 
kodobuff3 said:
Thanks to you and Mike for the prompt replies. Also, since I've now a dent/chip, I'm debating whether to just get paintless dent repair done, and buff out the hood myself, or just go through my insurance to have the hood repainted.

It's a tough choice!

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

As for your initial problem - any cloudiness or haziness that won't polish out is in the paint and is not a result of your waxing/sealing to soon.

Now going farther back to the initial problem that required hood replacement... In retrospect here's what you should have done. When they offered to replace the hood under warranty you should have specified that a factory replacement part that gets painted in their shop (or any shop) is not an acceptable remedy. The only acceptable remedy is to replace the hood with another "factory finish" hood off of another vehicle. There are many reasons for this. Matching factory paint in all respects, i.e., color, texture, finish, hardness, chip resistance, durability, etc., is impossible to do. You can match some of these characteristics but not all. Durability is the killer - There is no aftermarket finish that comes close to the factory applied finish.

I understand that the general populace is not aware of these "repaint" concerns. Most folks just simply believe that a new replacement hood with new paint from the shop is as good as new. That's just not the case. Repainted parts can look as good as new, even better (smoother, shinier, etc.), but there is more to the story. The durability will never equal the factory finish.

Have you ever seen a car with some panels that appear faded more than other panels. Or clear-coat failure on only selected panels. That is typically a dead give away that those panels were repaired and repainted at some point in time.


I'm going through this same process with a door on my new truck. I ordered a truck, waited 10 weeks for it to come in, and found some defects (dents and general waviness) in one of the doors before I took delivery. I was frustrated to the max. On one hand I could have simply said I'm not taking the truck and you'll need to order me another one, but I had waited 10 weeks already and didn't want to wait 10 more. I worked out a deal with them to replace my defective door with a factory finished door off of another brand new vehicle. I was explicit in stating that a new factory replacement door that gets painted in the shop was unacceptable and only a factory finished door off of another brand new vehicle would meet my expectations. With that agreement in writing I took delivery. The new donor truck is on order and is about 3-4 weeks away.

And for your final question, paintless dent repair or conventional repair/repaint. I'd probably go with the conventional repair/repaint since the hood has already been repainted. You won't be sacrificing the factory finish as that has already been done.

I know this post is a little too late to really help you now, but hopefully it can be useful for others down the road.
 
2black1s said:
As for your initial problem - any cloudiness or haziness that won't polish out is in the paint and is not a result of your waxing/sealing to soon.

Now going farther back to the initial problem that required hood replacement... In retrospect here's what you should have done. When they offered to replace the hood under warranty you should have specified that a factory replacement part that gets painted in their shop (or any shop) is not an acceptable remedy. The only acceptable remedy is to replace the hood with another "factory finish" hood off of another vehicle. There are many reasons for this. Matching factory paint in all respects, i.e., color, texture, finish, hardness, chip resistance, durability, etc., is impossible to do. You can match some of these characteristics but not all. Durability is the killer - There is no aftermarket finish that comes close to the factory applied finish.

I understand that the general populace is not aware of these "repaint" concerns. Most folks just simply believe that a new replacement hood with new paint from the shop is as good as new. That's just not the case. Repainted parts can look as good as new, even better (smoother, shinier, etc.), but there is more to the story. The durability will never equal the factory finish.

Have you ever seen a car with some panels that appear faded more than other panels. Or clear-coat failure on only selected panels. That is typically a dead give away that those panels were repaired and repainted at some point in time.


I'm going through this same process with a door on my new truck. I ordered a truck, waited 10 weeks for it to come in, and found some defects (dents and general waviness) in one of the doors before I took delivery. I was frustrated to the max. On one hand I could have simply said I'm not taking the truck and you'll need to order me another one, but I had waited 10 weeks already and didn't want to wait 10 more. I worked out a deal with them to replace my defective door with a factory finished door off of another brand new vehicle. I was explicit in stating that a new factory replacement door that gets painted in the shop was unacceptable and only a factory finished door off of another brand new vehicle would meet my expectations. With that agreement in writing I took delivery. The new donor truck is on order and is about 3-4 weeks away.

And for your final question, paintless dent repair or conventional repair/repaint. I'd probably go with the conventional repair/repaint since the hood has already been repainted. You won't be sacrificing the factory finish as that has already been done.

I know this post is a little too late to really help you now, but hopefully it can be useful for others down the road.
Click to expand...

This makes me very sad. It's a helpful post, but I'm most certainly pretty pissed off at this point. I suppose there is nothing I can do now. :(

Thank you for the information. I hope other people that read this catch it in time.
 
Well, I've contacted Guelph City Mazda (the dealership I purchase the car from in Guelph, Ontario) and I've contacted Mazda head office to bi*** about this experience and how I got taken advantage of because of my ignorance surrounding the issue.

Basically, I'm hoping they will rectify this issue by replacing my hood again, this time with factory OEM paint... *Hopefully* is the key word...

Probably not 'gonna happen though.

I'll update again later. For now, if there are any more thoughts to share, please don't hesitate to continue adding your opinions! Thanks a bunch everyone :)
 
If the body shop just did a crummy buffing job, it shouldn't be a problem to polish it to the same clarity as the rest of the car.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
If the body shop just did a crummy buffing job, it shouldn't be a problem to polish it to the same clarity as the rest of the car.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm having a frustrating time deciding what the heck to do about this. I'm thinking I'll just go to the best Auto Body Paint shop around and have my insurance handle the dent/chip and repaint the clear while they're at it.
 
kodobuff3 said:
Yeah, I'm having a frustrating time deciding what the heck to do about this. I'm thinking I'll just go to the best Auto Body Paint shop around and have my insurance handle the dent/chip and repaint the clear while they're at it.
Click to expand...

Another piece of advice should you go this route... I'd request that the hood be completely stripped to bare metal, or at least to the factory primer, during the repair process. Repairs and repainting over previously repainted stuff is a recipe for mediocrity. As the paint film thickness increases, the quality of most of the paint's characteristics decrease. Since your hood has already been repainted once, repainting over it again will result in excessive film thickness in my opinion. For the best finish and reliability of the new paint, the old paint should be removed.

There are usually no problems when repainting over a factory finish but that is not always the case with repaints. Many flaws in and below the surface of the existing paint will find there way into the new finish regardless of the preparations performed. These types of flaws are nearly non-existent in factory finishes but quite prevalent in repaints.
 
Dont say a word about sealing it; just take it back and say it looks cloudy. (Take better pics as proof)

While you are waiting to hear back I wouldnt polish, wax or touch it otherwise they will blame you.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
If the body shop just did a crummy buffing job, it shouldn't be a problem to polish it to the same clarity as the rest of the car.
Click to expand...


I agree.

Paint defects are either topical, (right on the surface), or in the paint, (below the surface). In your case it could just be a matter of a lousy final polishing job.

It's real easy to find out too... just get any dual action polisher like the Porter Cable and a high quality polish and foam pad and buff just a section on the hood. This will clear up the paint in the section you buffed and then compare it to the rest of the hood.

If it looks better then the problem was/is probably the body shop polishing work. If the cloudiness or splotchiness remains then the problem is likely a lousy re-spray.

One thing for sure is in order to know for sure the clearcoat needs to be actually be clear and that starts with a quality machine polishing.

If the same shop re-sprays the hood and the same guy at the shop sands and buffs the paint and if the problem truly is the polishing work not the paint work then you'll be back to the same problem.

When a clearcoat finish is properly machine polished it makes the clear top coat like a piece of glass so you can see exactly what's going on with the clear layer and the basecoat.

Diagnosing starts with doing what I call troubleshooting and the way you troubleshoot a paint problem like this is to buff a section of the hood using a high quality polish, a foam pad and DA polisher.


:)
 
Mike and everyone else; I sincerely appreciate all of the opinions. I've learned tons from this place thus far.

With that knowledge, I've now gone out and purchased a Porter Cable 7424XP and am going to either get a sample (32oz.) bottle of Meg's M205 Ultra Finishing Polish, or the consumer equivalent, the Meg's Ultimate Polish.

There is an excellent detailing product supplier in Guelph, ON where I live. Huttons Professional Car Detailing Products and they have their own proprietary stuff as well. Might I add... only highest grade stuff. So I'll try the 205/UP along with their orange pad (ultra polishing pad) called "Aquashine" by Huttons. I would assume that this pad resembles Lake Country/Chemical Guys/Megs pretty closely in quality.

Oh, also, to get back to 2black1s original reply to me; I've gotten in contact with my dealership and they're fully willing to stand behind the shoddy work and work with me to resolve the problem! Mohson, the sales manager even said he could pull some strings to get the dent/chip repaired as well at no additional cost to me. Classic case of you don't know 'till you try.

So with that said... if the buffing out with the DA doesn't seem to work, I'll be going the dealership warranty route. Thanks everyone for helping an extremely OCD but avid car lover get things right!

Many special thanks, especially to Mike, especially for taking the time to talk to me on the telephone there last Wednesday or whatever it was. You guys are the bomb!

Peace! :)
 
2black1s said:
As for your initial problem - any cloudiness or haziness that won't polish out is in the paint and is not a result of your waxing/sealing to soon.

Now going farther back to the initial problem that required hood replacement... In retrospect here's what you should have done. When they offered to replace the hood under warranty you should have specified that a factory replacement part that gets painted in their shop (or any shop) is not an acceptable remedy. The only acceptable remedy is to replace the hood with another "factory finish" hood off of another vehicle. There are many reasons for this. Matching factory paint in all respects, i.e., color, texture, finish, hardness, chip resistance, durability, etc., is impossible to do. You can match some of these characteristics but not all. Durability is the killer - There is no aftermarket finish that comes close to the factory applied finish.

I understand that the general populace is not aware of these "repaint" concerns. Most folks just simply believe that a new replacement hood with new paint from the shop is as good as new. That's just not the case. Repainted parts can look as good as new, even better (smoother, shinier, etc.), but there is more to the story. The durability will never equal the factory finish.

Have you ever seen a car with some panels that appear faded more than other panels. Or clear-coat failure on only selected panels. That is typically a dead give away that those panels were repaired and repainted at some point in time.


I'm going through this same process with a door on my new truck. I ordered a truck, waited 10 weeks for it to come in, and found some defects (dents and general waviness) in one of the doors before I took delivery. I was frustrated to the max. On one hand I could have simply said I'm not taking the truck and you'll need to order me another one, but I had waited 10 weeks already and didn't want to wait 10 more. I worked out a deal with them to replace my defective door with a factory finished door off of another brand new vehicle. I was explicit in stating that a new factory replacement door that gets painted in the shop was unacceptable and only a factory finished door off of another brand new vehicle would meet my expectations. With that agreement in writing I took delivery. The new donor truck is on order and is about 3-4 weeks away.

And for your final question, paintless dent repair or conventional repair/repaint. I'd probably go with the conventional repair/repaint since the hood has already been repainted. You won't be sacrificing the factory finish as that has already been done.

I know this post is a little too late to really help you now, but hopefully it can be useful for others down the road.
Click to expand...

Special thanks to this guy for nudging me to call my dealership. Without this comment I would have gone insurance and paid out of pocket!!

:)
 
kodobuff3 said:
Special thanks to this guy for nudging me to call my dealership. Without this comment I would have gone insurance and paid out of pocket!!

:)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words and best of luck to you in getting your problem solved.

Typically when I respond to threads such as this one, it's only if I have some experience, knowledge, and expertise in the matter... And I believe what I'm sharing can be useful.

I'm glad my post(s) were useful to you.
 
2black1s said:
Thanks for the kind words and best of luck to you in getting your problem solved.

Typically when I respond to threads such as this one, it's only if I have some experience, knowledge, and expertise in the matter... And I believe what I'm sharing can be useful.

I'm glad my post(s) were useful to you.
Click to expand...

They absolutely were, so I hope that you use that expertise to keep helping others because if they're anything like me, they will appreciate it. So thanks!

I'll be contacting the service manager, Ryan, on Monday to set up an appointment to take a look at the problem(s).

I'll keep the thread updated so if anyone else ever reads this, hopefully it'll help them as well.

Peace!
 
kodobuff3 said:
Mike and everyone else; I sincerely appreciate all of the opinions. I've learned tons from this place thus far.

With that knowledge, I've now gone out and purchased a Porter Cable 7424XP
Click to expand...

That's kind of the effect this forum has... causes people to increase their detailing supplies and tools.



kodobuff3 said:
Many special thanks, especially to Mike, especially for taking the time to talk to me on the telephone there last Wednesday or whatever it was. You guys are the bomb!

Peace! :)
Click to expand...


No problemo....

Keep us updated with your project.


:dblthumb2:
 
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