Collinite 845 and DP Poli-Coat Sealant Questions

[sportscarhiatus]

I received the two aforementioned products from an AG purchase about a week ago. I had to get the DP sealant when it was on BOGO . Anyways, I decided to try both over the weekend... but I ran into some issues, noted below. Please chime in if you can.

845
I applied this to the HOOD only on the wife's Odyssey. Surface is clayed and well prepped, of course. I applied PB Black Hole Glaze (out of direct sunlight of course) using a PC prior to application of 845. I used a damp foam applicator pad to apply what I thought was a "thin" layer of 845. I've been detailing for years, so I believe I know what thin is... never had any issue with any other LSP. Anyways, I let it sit for about 10 minutes, then proceeded to buff off using a clean MF. I found the removal process to be quite difficult. A lot of elbow grease, and the 845 didn't really seem to "wipe off". It just seemed to "smear". Hard to explain... the stuff just seemed to REMAIN on the paint. Weird. Has anyone else seen this? What am I doing wrong? I have several theories. I will have to try again. I love the stuff as it still produced a nice warm glow.

1) I used a "damp" applicator pad. I use ONR in quick detailer form for all my damp appplicator LSP's and have had NO issue. Perhaps I should have done it dry?
2) Does 845 have an issue with PB Black Hole?
3) I didn't let it dry long enough? Usually Nuba's haze up pretty quick. This was no different. It hazed up good after 10 minutes, hence I attempted to remove it.
4) It's pretty humid where I'm at.... about 90's and 80% humidity if not more. Could this be an issue?

DP Poli-Coat
Simple question really... again, surfaces properly prepped with an existing LSP (UPGP, about 3 weeks old) I applied this on the wife's Civic using a PC, with a finishing pad (gray LC CCS). I used speed 2.5 with no arm weight... just the weight of the PC itself. I let it sit for 30 minutes then removed it. It applied AND removed very easy (obviously not like 845 above...lol). The issue was after I brought it out to the sunlight, it looked great, but upon further inspection, I saw what appeared to be holograms or slight marring showing the traces of the PC where I applied the DP in the first place. I wish I took a picture (it's raining out now)... but you guys know what I mean right? In other words, there were traces of how it looked like after applying the DP before removal...except that it won't buff off... like it's in the clear coat. I hope don't have to polish it now just to get rid of it. Any one seen this issue?

1) Did I use too high of a PC speed?
2) Did I use the wrong pad? I didn't think gray finishing pads from LC had any cut.
3) Did I let the PC apply the DP too long? meaning I just kept going around too long on one area?
4) Is it because DP has "cleaners" almost like an AIO? Not sure if this is relevant, but you know, I'm stretching

HELP, fellow geeks...

 

[ScottB]

Dp Poli-coat

It only has the lightest of cleaners, more of a prep to adhere to surface completely. It should leave no traces. I am more inclined to thing it was the pad, grey pads are finishing pads but I personally believe they still have a light bite. I would prefer a red pad "if" using a PC to apply/remove sealant but in this case (and most others) hand application is preferred and buffing is personal choice completely.

I think your speed was likely fine, doubt it was the time either unless really damp and humid. With sealants usually more time for curing is ok. I would rewash car and see if you can see any markings now.

 

[sportscarhiatus]

Dp Poli-coat

It only has the lightest of cleaners, more of a prep to adhere to surface completely. It should leave no traces. I am more inclined to thing it was the pad, grey pads are finishing pads but I personally believe they still have a light bite. I would prefer a red pad "if" using a PC to apply/remove sealant but in this case (and most others) hand application is preferred and buffing is personal choice completely.

I think your speed was likely fine, doubt it was the time either unless really damp and humid. With sealants usually more time for curing is ok. I would rewash car and see if you can see any markings now.

I do have a couple of red LC pads... I will try to use that next time. I also might try to slow down to speed 2 or less... after all, I am merely applying and not doing any correction. I will also try to wash the car once the weather clears up and see if that "marring" is still there from the DP.

By the way, I just recently started applying LSP's via PC, because it's SO easy. I can get a nice even coat everytime, all the time. It helps apply "thin". In the event that I do apply too much on the pad, I just spread it around and keep going.

 

[2kredbb6]

Only used the DP the 845 should be on it's way YES!!
When I applied the DP poli sealant I used a black pad using a PC7424 at a speed of 3, no issues or problems at all. I usually apply it to the whole car an wait 10 min before I remove car is black Audi A8L (huge) it spreads so thin an evenly that go over the same area more then 2x might be a bit much..
Hope that helps a bit in your dilemma..

 

[sportscarhiatus]

Only used the DP the 845 should be on it's way YES!!
When I applied the DP poli sealant I used a black pad using a PC7424 at a speed of 3, no issues or problems at all. I usually apply it to the whole car an wait 10 min before I remove car is black Audi A8L (huge) it spreads so thin an evenly that go over the same area more then 2x might be a bit much..
Hope that helps a bit in your dilemma..

I appreciate the response, but it sounds like you did almost the same thing I did. You did, however, use a faster speed. You also let it sit for a short amount of time. By the way, you should let that sit longer to allow proper bonding to occur.

Needless to say, I am still puzzled why I have had that "marring" issue and not you. Interesting.

 

[Emile]

The Poli-Coat has its own bonding agent, this means it will clean up any existing protection on the surface and then leave its sealant behind. You probably got some hazing on the paint because directions state that when applying by machine, Poli-Seal should be worked in 2x2 sections until it hazes up. By not working the product in, it seems to have caused the machine to install some marring/holograms in the paintwork. A very light polish is probably needed to correct these new imperfections in the paintwork. You probably experienced the light marring because the Audi's clear-coat may be harder than your Honda's clear-coat. Honda tends to use soft paint whereas the Germans are relying on the new ceramic scratch-resistant clears.

845 is a great wax but can turn into the devil if not applied correctly. You have to shake the living daylights out of it until it is very thin and runny. Apply a VERY small amount of product and apply it VERY thin. You may want to apply this product by machine for a thinner, more even application. And the way you apply 845 thin is so unbelievably thin you can barely see it on the paintwork. It makes other thinly-applied products look bad. Only takes a few minutes for 845 to haze up and it should be easy as butter to remove...I would say not to let it sit on the paintwork more than 10 minutes because then it just gets harder and harder to buff off.

Stay away from dampening the applicator with ONR unless you're trying to use Klasse AIO or something. 845 needs no dampening, or maybe just a light spritz of distilled water.

 

[ScottB]

I really dont feel the speed or time for curing is the issue. It really appears pad might be culprit, or possibly the removing pad/towel/bonnet. DP is very forgiving even with overapplication.

 

[BobbyG]

When I apply Collinite 845 I use either a blue or red Lake Country pad.

For starters since Collinite 845 does not come with a applicator top so I pour the contents into a nice AutoGeek squeeze bottle. This makes controlling the amount needed very easy.

Starting with a clean pad, I squeeze 4 dine sized dots about 3/4" in from the edge of the pad. The speed on my PC polisher is set on 3 and the pad placed on the surface then spread it across the panel as usual. Like you I don't use pressure and just let the machine and pad do the work.

The key to successfully applying Collinite 845 is THIN and work the wax during its application. What I mean by that is initially the wax coats nice and evenly, you can see an even trail of product. As you're working it in, the product begins to disappear and is thin enough to dry. Normally I let the wax sit for 15 to 20 minutes, depending on temp and hunidity, then do the finger swipe test to see if it feels done.

Buff with a clean Microfiber towel.

 

[sportscarhiatus]

By not working the product in, it seems to have caused the machine to install some marring/holograms in the paintwork.

Can you please explain why not working the product in would cause marring? If I would have applied this by hand, I wouldn't necessarily be "working it in", right? It'd be a simple application of an LSP. I would like to understand your thoughts behind this statement.

A very light polish is probably needed to correct these new imperfections in the paintwork. You probably experienced the light marring because the Audi's clear-coat may be harder than your Honda's clear-coat. Honda tends to use soft paint whereas the Germans are relying on the new ceramic scratch-resistant clears.

That would royally SUCK if this were indeed the case... meaning, I have to (lightly - via gray pad and PO85rd or something) polish the ENTIRE car again to remove that marring. Like killr mentioned earlier, I hope it disappears after a wash. Perhaps my MF didn't remove all the residue. But I really tried to buff it off (hard) many times, and it does appear to still be there.

845 is a great wax but can turn into the devil if not applied correctly. You have to shake the living daylights out of it until it is very thin and runny. Apply a VERY small amount of product and apply it VERY thin. You may want to apply this product by machine for a thinner, more even application. And the way you apply 845 thin is so unbelievably thin you can barely see it on the paintwork. It makes other thinly-applied products look bad. Only takes a few minutes for 845 to haze up and it should be easy as butter to remove...I would say not to let it sit on the paintwork more than 10 minutes because then it just gets harder and harder to buff off.

Perhaps you are on to something there... I may have applied it too thick. I thought it was thin already, but perhaps I have to go thinner. After applying, I did see traces of where it was applied. I also saw a good haze when it did haze. So does that mean I did apply too much? dang.... that's some sensitive stuff. I've even applied OCW and Opti-seal and KSG with NO issue... and those products are supposed to be thin also. Oh another thing, I applied Collinite 476 to the mirrors and bumper to try it out, using the same application technique and it removed EASIER than 845... came off pretty quick. So what gives??? 476 was supposed to be TOUGHER to remove.

Stay away from dampening the applicator with ONR unless you're trying to use Klasse AIO or something. 845 needs no dampening, or maybe just a light spritz of distilled water.

I need to get some distilled water.

 

[sportscarhiatus]

When I apply Collinite 845 I use either a blue or red Lake Country pad.

For starters since Collinite 845 does not come with a applicator top so I pour the contents into a nice AutoGeek squeeze bottle. This makes controlling the amount needed very easy.

Starting with a clean pad, I squeeze 4 dine sized dots about 3/4" in from the edge of the pad. The speed on my PC polisher is set on 3 and the pad placed on the surface then spread it across the panel as usual. Like you I don't use pressure and just let the machine and pad do the work.

The key to successfully applying Collinite 845 is THIN and work the wax during its application. What I mean by that is initially the wax coats nice and evenly, you can see an even trail of product. As you're working it in, the product begins to disappear and is thin enough to dry. Normally I let the wax sit for 15 to 20 minutes, depending on temp and hunidity, then do the finger swipe test to see if it feels done.

Buff with a clean Microfiber towel.

Thanks for the reply, Bobby... I think perhaps I have applied it still too thick I can't believe this stuff might be harder to work with than KSG or 476 for that matter... lol. I will also use a red LC pad the next time I use it. I definitely "want" to like 845... I just wish it were easy to use. I know I will use 845 and 476 in tandem right before winter. I need to prep my arm for a good buffing come that time... oh joy.

EDIT: 845 does have a nice glow to it... warmer than a sealant. It's no Souveran or MaxWax by any means... but close.

 

[Emile]

Can you please explain why not working the product in would cause marring? If I would have applied this by hand, I wouldn't necessarily be "working it in", right? It'd be a simple application of an LSP. I would like to understand your thoughts behind this statement.



That would royally SUCK if this were indeed the case... meaning, I have to (lightly - via gray pad and PO85rd or something) polish the ENTIRE car again to remove that marring. Like killr mentioned earlier, I hope it disappears after a wash. Perhaps my MF didn't remove all the residue. But I really tried to buff it off (hard) many times, and it does appear to still be there.



Perhaps you are on to something there... I may have applied it too thick. I thought it was thin already, but perhaps I have to go thinner. After applying, I did see traces of where it was applied. I also saw a good haze when it did haze. So does that mean I did apply too much? dang.... that's some sensitive stuff. I've even applied OCW and Opti-seal and KSG with NO issue... and those products are supposed to be thin also. Oh another thing, I applied Collinite 476 to the mirrors and bumper to try it out, using the same application technique and it removed EASIER than 845... came off pretty quick. So what gives??? 476 was supposed to be TOUGHER to remove.



I need to get some distilled water.

Okay, let me see if I can explain this clearly, it's hard to put into words:
1.) Applying Poli-Coat by hand wouldn't cause any marring because the human arm doesn't move nearly fast or hard enough to cause any type of resurfacing issues. In this case, you would just apply the product evenly over the car, and the Poli-Coat will take its time cleaning up any existing paint protection and then laying down the sealant, all this going on while the product is "hazing up" on its own. Once the process is complete and the product has fully hazed over, then you buff it off.

2.) You received marring because Poli-Coat seems to have its own "bonding agent" which I think means that it has some chemical cleaners in there. When applying Poli-Coat (with its chemical cleaners) by Porter Cable with a gray pad to a car with a soft clear-coat, this combination is aggressive enough to cause some marring in your paint. If you had worked it in 2x2 sections as per the directions and let the Poli-Coat fully break down, it would have provided you with no marring and possibly even a hint of paint correction. As killrwheels stated, the gray pad may have been a part of the problem, but with your car's soft paint, I don't think a blue or red pad would have given you a swirl-free finish. The product has been designed to be applied by hand so that it will do most of the work by itself after you've applied it to the paint, or to be applied by machine so that you can work in 2x2 sections until it is broken down. Applying by machine dramatically accelerates its working time as it will clean the paint and lay down the sealant in about a minute or two of polishing time.

3.) You will probably need a gray finishing pad and PO85rd or some other light polish to clear up the damage that has been done. I cannot stress enough how important it is to carefully follow directions when using cleaner waxes (with or without abrasives). These things happen and I feel for you and I have been there before, so just take it as a learning experience and try to move on with minimal frustration.

4.) As for Collinite 845, I think you definitely applied it too thick. If you are applying by hand, you have to spread the product sooo far out so that you can barely see it on the paint, similar to the application of Klasse SG. Once this thin application hazes over after a couple of minutes, you will easily see that you applied more than enough product. Again, a couple of minutes is usually all that is needed for 845 to fully setup. I know this is a bit tricky for just a liquid wax, but once you learn to work with 845, it will soon become your best friend on your detailing shelf, especially during the harsh winters.

 

[Dubbin1]

DP Poli-Coat
Simple question really... again, surfaces properly prepped with an existing LSP (UPGP, about 3 weeks old) I applied this on the wife's Civic using a PC, with a finishing pad (gray LC CCS). I used speed 2.5 with no arm weight... just the weight of the PC itself. I let it sit for 30 minutes then removed it. It applied AND removed very easy (obviously not like 845 above...lol). The issue was after I brought it out to the sunlight, it looked great, but upon further inspection, I saw what appeared to be holograms or slight marring showing the traces of the PC where I applied the DP in the first place. I wish I took a picture (it's raining out now)... but you guys know what I mean right? In other words, there were traces of how it looked like after applying the DP before removal...except that it won't buff off... like it's in the clear coat. I hope don't have to polish it now just to get rid of it. Any one seen this issue?

1) Did I use too high of a PC speed?
2) Did I use the wrong pad? I didn't think gray finishing pads from LC had any cut.
3) Did I let the PC apply the DP too long? meaning I just kept going around too long on one area?
4) Is it because DP has "cleaners" almost like an AIO? Not sure if this is relevant, but you know, I'm stretching

HELP, fellow geeks...

Not really an answer but this is one of the reasons why I apply sealants and waxes by hand.

 

[sportscarhiatus]

Not really an answer but this is one of the reasons why I apply sealants and waxes by hand.

I think I may have to go back to hand applying LSP's. I thought I found a hidden gem with applying LSP's by PC to save on time and elbow grease... but it might not be worth the headache it leaves behind.

Based on Emile's post above... stating that the combo of DP with it's chemical cleaners plus a PC plus a gray pad is agressive enough to leave some marring, does this mean that if I do use a gray pad/PC combo with a NUBA lsp or any other sealant with NO cleaners, like say 845 or souveran or 4StarUPP or Powerlock, I should be marr-free?

 

[Da Fats]

I've not seen this issue with using a red LC pad and a PC to apply either of these products. With removal by hand

 

[rwisejr]

845 sounds like it wasn't thin enough. As I always apply it by PC let haze for 10-15 min and it comes off easily. I just did this on Saturday.

 

[BobbyG]

845

1) I used a "damp" applicator pad. I use ONR in quick detailer form for all my damp appplicator LSP's and have had NO issue. Perhaps I should have done it dry?
2) Does 845 have an issue with PB Black Hole?
3) I didn't let it dry long enough? Usually Nuba's haze up pretty quick. This was no different. It hazed up good after 10 minutes, hence I attempted to remove it.
4) It's pretty humid where I'm at.... about 90's and 80% humidity if not more. Could this be an issue?

DP Poli-Coat
Simple question really... again, surfaces properly prepped with an existing LSP (UPGP, about 3 weeks old) I applied this on the wife's Civic using a PC, with a finishing pad (gray LC CCS). I used speed 2.5 with no arm weight... just the weight of the PC itself. I let it sit for 30 minutes then removed it. It applied AND removed very easy (obviously not like 845 above...lol). The issue was after I brought it out to the sunlight, it looked great, but upon further inspection, I saw what appeared to be holograms or slight marring showing the traces of the PC where I applied the DP in the first place. I wish I took a picture (it's raining out now)... but you guys know what I mean right? In other words, there were traces of how it looked like after applying the DP before removal...except that it won't buff off... like it's in the clear coat. I hope don't have to polish it now just to get rid of it. Any one seen this issue?

1) Did I use too high of a PC speed?
2) Did I use the wrong pad? I didn't think gray finishing pads from LC had any cut.
3) Did I let the PC apply the DP too long? meaning I just kept going around too long on one area?
4) Is it because DP has "cleaners" almost like an AIO? Not sure if this is relevant, but you know, I'm stretching

HELP, fellow geeks...

I re-read this I don't know why I didn't pick up on this sooner.

Why did you dampen the pad with Optimum No Rinse car wash prior to applying Collinite 845? Collinite 845 is not a water based product.

For sealants and waxes I use either a blue or red Lake Country pad and a speed of 3 on my Porter Cable 7424. Neither of these pads

Between using a gray pad and dampening it with Optimum No Rinse car wash when applying Collinite 845 I don't think helped at all.

Once I started applying sealants and waxes using a DA polisher and saw how consistent and easy it was I'll never apply them by hand again.

 

[sportscarhiatus]

I've not seen this issue with using a red LC pad and a PC to apply either of these products. With removal by hand

845 sounds like it wasn't thin enough. As I always apply it by PC let haze for 10-15 min and it comes off easily. I just did this on Saturday.

I re-read this I don't know why I didn't pick up on this sooner.

Why did you dampen the pad with Optimum No Rinse car wash prior to applying Collinite 845? Collinite 845 is not a water based product.

For sealants and waxes I use either a blue or red Lake Country pad and a speed of 3 on my Porter Cable 7424. Neither of these pads

Between using a gray pad and dampening it with Optimum No Rinse car wash when applying Collinite 845 I don't think helped at all.

Once I started applying sealants and waxes using a DA polisher and saw how consistent and easy it was I'll never apply them by hand again.

Hi guys... thanks for the responses, but yes, this thread was what I started 2-3 weeks ago. The culprit ended up being (you guys nailed it) a combination of dampening my applicator (by hand) with ONR diluted to QD strength, and applying it too thick. Like you said, since 845 is not water-based, that's where it started getting finicky.

I have since then corrected my method and applied 845 (twice now) using a dry red LC pad, on speed 1.5, then after 2-3 panels, stopping and removing it. It has worked really well for me now. Applying by DA is soooo much easier and can get it nice and thin. In fact I have started threads here on this same section stating how much I love 845.