CONFUSED - Induced Holograms With A DA?!?!

I had a similar issue with a black car that was a full repaint and then a front half repaint on top of that. Told the customer didn't have paint gauge and didn't want to take a chance. He insisted, so I did a test spot with Megs 105, D300, D151.......etc. Do the whole car and some panels came out good and others not so good (DA Haze and Swirls that wouldn't budge from improper washing). I wasn't happy, so I switched to a finishing pad and Menzerna SF4000, used speed 5.5 on a PC and then worked it down to speed 4 and 3. I would say 90% correction and haze was gone, so I left it alone. I then come to find out the customer was washing the car with a long handle brush, 1 bucket, no grit guard, drying with bath towels and wiping down the car with QD all the time. I then gave him a long lecture and if I come back next year to the same mess he is getting a clay,glaze,wax instead.......lol
 
Some of the posts about issues with "different" cars, which is a way of saying the term I use often "different paint systems" just goes to show that paint systems are different, they are always changing and thus the value of doing a "Test Spot" before buffing out an entire car and checking the results in different light and even chemically stripping the paint to ensure the results you're seeing are in fact the true and accurate results you're producing.


I'm subscribed to this thread and looking forward to reading about the successful end to this project.


:dblthumb2:
 
Alright guys..... Soooo - worked on this F-650 on Sat. This is the conclusion I came up with...........



1) Prepped paint

2) Alc'd the paint to insure all previous products were removed

3)Did about TEN test spots with products on hand as well as thos provided by other AGIANS (thanks again guys)

Using aggressive cyclo pads (yellow) I was able to come up with a near perfect (swirl and hologram free) paint - BUT there were still holograms. So of course I polished with a less aggressive product and pad - HOLOGRAMS WERE TEN TIMES WORSE!

OK - so compounding performs a 80% + correction..... but holograms appear after polishing. Let me try other polishing products. Included are.... Meguires, 3M, Optimum, Poor Boys, Mothers, and a few others that we use on a reg basis. THEY ALL CREATED HOLOGRAMS - with DA and also BY HAND.... Yes even by hand!!

So I decided to swing a hay maker and rotary each product instead of using cyclo - of course they made things worse! How people say they come up with hologram free finishes with the rotary behooves me lol!.


So - I show our client a panel that has been corrected through compounds and the cyclo (leaving minor holograms) and he is ECSTATIC to see the results :/ While I see a few left over holograms - he sees perfection. So after about 4 hours of panel to panel research - he wants us basically to compound with yellow cyclo pads and top of with collonite.

90% of swirls are gone due to the soft paint - but holograms are still there - but he doesn't care! He just wants the "spider webs" gone. Im still curious about the way to fix this though :/ Any other thoughts?
 
Nooooooo, it seems this car has defeated us :(, never give up I say, never!
 
CM8 6MT said:
Nooooooo, it seems this car has defeated us :(, never give up I say, never!
Click to expand...

LOL - I truly felt sad and defeated lol - cause I really wanted an answer - but I am serioulsy stumped - Ive never compounded a vehicle to near perfect correction only to see that a final polish creates an enormous amount of holograms?!?!?!? Very Very odd to me
 
Well ok then! The gentler you try to be the worse things get...hmmm
 
Take any pics? I was about to say did u try a jeweling polish and pad, but see you tried by hand and it still occurred.

As long as the customer was happy and he saw perfection, don't beat yourself up over it. You can't hit a home run all the time, so be happy with a triple. lol
 
Sounds like a horrible paint system.


A good paint system either at the OEM level, (factory finish), or a repaint should be a paint system the "average person" can work on and get great results. Period.

There's no justification for any type of paint system that the average person with average skills using normal car care products cannot remove defects by hand or machine and restore the paint to original condition.


I would love to see a paint manufacture make the case for anything else.


Check out this thread Anthony, what's worked for me for stupid soft paints is to finish out with a quality cleaner/wax.


Audi Soft Paint - Making Generalizations about Hardness and Softness


2BlueAudiSenstivePaint02.jpg


The car above was a swirled and scratched up mess.


:)
 
B&B Tennessee said:
LOL - I truly felt sad and defeated lol - cause I really wanted an answer - but I am serioulsy stumped - Ive never compounded a vehicle to near perfect correction only to see that a final polish creates an enormous amount of holograms?!?!?!? Very Very odd to me
Click to expand...

I remember reading an article or two on another site published by Todd Cooperider. He discussed a situation similar to this where the compounding stage went fine, but getting the final polishing stage was very tricky like you are describing. Ultimately I believe in both situations the solution to the problem was the Sonax Nano Technology paint cleaner. Apparently it was the only product (at least at the time) that would finish down to satisfactory results. The product has very minor abrasives that when used on a finishing pad work very well on soft and hard to finish paint systems. The product is somewhat oily and does leave some protection behind, so careful removal is necessary and topping with another LSP will most likely be necessary.

This is not my own experience, but that of someone with vast experience, so I figured sharing this maye be helpful if it can solve the problem.

SONAX Paint Cleaner, sonax prewax cleaner, sonax car polish, sonax cleaner polish
 
Audi X2 said:
Ultimately I believe in both situations the solution to the problem was the Sonax Nano Technology paint cleaner. Apparently it was the only product (at least at the time) that would finish down to satisfactory results.

The product has very minor abrasives that when used on a finishing pad work very well on soft and hard to finish paint systems.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing the above Buddy, brainstorming is one of my favorite ways to solve problems and that means all types of input from newbies to seasoned pros.

On the topic of SONAX products, I have not used the paint cleaner you linked to above but I have been incredibly impressed with the new SONAX Nano Polish.

We used it on the Ford Van at this last weekends detailing bootcamp class. We used it on the 1965 Mustang that recently took first place at an all Ford car show. And we used it on a all original 1987 Corvette.

We actually used the Nano Polish and finished out using only a rotary buffer on this Corvette and to date the owner says it still has a flawless, swirl-free finish.

Anthony, if you don't have the SONAX Nano Polish in your arsenal, sometime down the road I would recommend getting some and giving it a try for some of your detailing projects.


1987 Corvette Show Car Makeover - SONAX Showcase




Machine Jewelling
Next we switched over to Lake Country Gold Jewelling Pads and machine applied the SONAX Nano Polish, for this everyone stayed around the 600 to 800 RPM Range and re-polished each square inch using only light pressure while cleaning our pads often.

1987_Corvette_Show_Car_Makeover_0281.jpg




Forrest really liked the results from this step...

1987_Corvette_Show_Car_Makeover_0291.jpg


1987_Corvette_Show_Car_Makeover_0301.jpg




1987_Corvette_Show_Car_Makeover_0471.jpg




:)
 
Also Anthony if you send me a PM with your shipping information I would be more than happy to send you a sample of the Sonax Nano Tech paint cleaner.
 
Thanks guy for the info

Mike - I will definitely look into the Sonax and toss that in the tool box.

Audi - Definitely man, Id love to try this product out.


My guys were finishing the F-650 up today and said after they compounded it looked great - then even applying Collonite by hand induced tons of Holograms :/ About as frustrated as I have been since starting this company :confused:. Id love to say as long as the client is happy I am happy, but not the case this time around lol.

I snapped pics of his trailer we were correcting the same day - but none of the truck. I did grab a short video though now that I think of it. I will play with that tomorrow and see if I can upload it.
 
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