Correcting Hard Clearcoat

leif20

leif20

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Been in to detailing for a couple years now. Have a dozen or so hours experience with a machine, a few dozen hours with various types of washing, and even more time spent researching and reading especially on AGO. I love that this forum exists and how professionals come together here to debate and progress the craft. Safe to say I’m hooked.

I have a 2006 BMW 330i in Monaco Blue, and the clear is quite hard on this car. The benefit is that it’s pretty hard to scratch the paint, but the drawback is that correcting it seems to be quite a challenge. I got started with the Torq 10FX DA but snagged a great deal on a Makita PO5000C and picked that up. Other gear is Hex Logic orange, white, black pads, along with the Meguiars Ultimate line.

I’m looking to clean up the swirls and random scratches in my paint. This past weekend I took the Makita and the orange pad, set it to forced rotation, and went to work with Ultimate compound. To my surprise, it took quite a lot of effort to get all the swirls and spider webbing out of the paint. I think it took 3 or 4 passes over about a square foot area before all the defects were removed to my satisfaction. The first picture shows what only two passes with this combo looks like. You can still see a few scratches and spiderwebs.

qSKqwGBl.png


The second picture is where I got the paint to after 4 passes.

17LlQrel.png


My question is what to do with the whole car. Will the whole thing need 4 passes with this compound? Should I step up to a more aggressive compound, or pad? What are recommendations for both? Increase speed on the polisher (I think I had it at about 3.5-4 on the dial)?

Also, what's the best way to clean out these pads so they don't get gummed up? I have two orange pads and two white pads.

Afterwards I'll go have ultimate polish and then Ultimate liquid wax because it really makes the blue pop.

Pic of car after doing this combo two years ago:

J9GDRxkl.png


 
It might be time to invest in a heavier cutting compound such as Sonax Cut Max or 3D ACA. Meguiar's D300 on a microfiber cutting pad might be another option. It worked well for me on my 02 Camaro with hard paint.

I am not familiar with those tools as I have not used them. You may want to consider looking into a microfiber cutting pad to use with the DA. Mike has a write up on the Makita and I am sure he refers to what pads work well with it.
 
leif20 said:
I think it took 3 or 4 passes over about a square foot area before all the defects were removed to my satisfaction.
Click to expand...


When you say 3 or 4 passes, do you mean

3-4 Section Passes this means you went over a section 3 or 4 times.

Or you did 8 section passes to a section 3-4 times.

I just covered this in a live video on Facebook.


:_
 
More,

The Definition of a Section Pass by Mike Phillips



The definition of a pass
 There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine.


Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the polisher from one side of the section you're buffing to the other side of the section you're buffing. That's a single pass.


Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the polisher back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.


How many section passes to make to one area of paint
In most cases if you're removing any substantial below surface defects you're going to make 6-8 section passes to the section you’re working before you either feel comfortable you've removed the defects or you're at the end of the buffing cycle for the product you're using.


Years ago, when trying to figure out how to teach a person how to buff out a car using a keyboard I came up with the term Section Pass or Section Passes.

A section pass or passes is the way you move a polisher to buff out a section of paint. Doing section passes is doing a crosshatch pattern over a section of paint.


Polish first going left to right. This would be ONE SECTION PASS - you went over the section one time.

onepass.jpg




Make a second pass over the working area using overlapping “up to down, down to up” strokes. This would be 2 section passes, you have went over the section twice.


twopass.jpg




If you repeated the above two section passes 3 more times, that would be a total of 8 section passes.


You normally need to do around 8 section passes to give the tool, pad, abrasives, arm speed and downward pressure enough time to abrade enough paint to level it.


Make sense?





:)
 
Sonax or Menzerna will do a much better and faster job compared to Megs UC (MUC). There are others of course that can do better than MUC; as this is a medium-cut polish. Based on what I have in my inventory, I'd go with a 2-step using Menzerna's FG400 (compount), followed with SF-3500 / SF-3800 (polish). But, a test spot is always advised so you can lock in a 1 or 2-step to your liking.
 
To clarify. In my original post, I assumed a pass would be the whole process of applying product, going back and forth horizontally over the area, and then back and forth vertically over the area, resulting in the depiction above with red AND black arrows. Each pass would have been 2 section passes.

So in this sense I would say I did 4 section passes in the first picture, and then the results I am looking for came from doing 8 or so section passes. I was just surprised that I would need to do 8 section passes to clear out all the defects, and shudder to think of how long it will take to do the whole car :\

I was thinking that there must be a product that would be able to level and correct in 4 section passes, or is this just a dream?
 
If we talk about Lake Country CCS foam pads it will be good to cut with orange, polish with green and lsp with black?

Or is better to use white for polishing?

Again, assuming LC CCS foam pads

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
leif20 said:
I was just surprised that I would need to do 8 section passes to clear out all the defects, and shudder to think of how long it will take to do the whole car :\

I was thinking that there must be a product that would be able to level and correct in 4 section passes, or is this just a dream?
Click to expand...


Yes that would be a dream.

It simply takes some time for all the actions taking place at the surface level to GENTLY abrade and level the paint.

You can go faster with more powerful tools, pads and products, BUT even then, you're going to be at an average of 8 section passes and sometimes more.


Read through this, check to see each factor I list and how you're doing everything.

DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


:)
 
Just wanted to add a bit of an update to this post, as I have ghosted myself. Work became quite busy and with pollen season happening I chose to take a bit of time off of detailing.

I did do the whole car with UC, UP, and then ULW. I have been boosting with D156 about once a month. The slickness of the waxes are gone, and so has some of the depth of shine. However, the water beading is still pretty tight, but I think that is moreso due to the clean and uncontaminated surface.

I did about 6-8 section passes as Mike outlined above and in the articles. This took out all of the swirls, but left some random isolated scratches all over the paint (I attribute this to being a DD that sits outside year-round, and has snow wiped off of it 15+ times per year). The RIDS are not particularly annoying and only show up in really bright light. Of course, the reason we detail is so that the car looks stunning especially in bright light, so I may have to attack these with a slightly more aggressive setup (right now only have ultimate compound with hex logic orange pads).

Here is where the paint sits today:
Hood - all swirls gone, RIDS remain. Picture did not capture rids effectively, but it is obviously free of serious defects:
9hsmCZe.jpg


Front Quarter - same as hood, but it is easier to see the RIDS:
uaVAMAm.jpg


Passenger Rear Door - Swirling is noticeable here but I think it is due to my washing process. Was not careful with Rinseless wash, and I think the car may have been too dirty for rinseless the most recent wash I did.
zzoDQH9.jpg


Passenger Rear Quarter - swirling and RIDS visible.
FxAe5Q7.jpg


My questions now:
1. To get out the RIDS what would be the best combo to use. I feel like UC along with an orange pad should do the trick, or do I need to step it up?
2. For the defects in the last two pics (swirls installed as part of washing), will meg's ultimate polish with hex logic orange or white take them out?

Thanks for all the tips!
 
leif20 said:
Just wanted to add a bit of an update to this post, as I have ghosted myself.
Click to expand...

Thanks for updating. I always appreciate a follow-up. :props:


leif20 said:
I did about 6-8 section passes as Mike outlined above and in the articles. This took out all of the swirls,
Click to expand...

Sometimes all it takes is to tweak your technique just a tick. :buffing:



leif20 said:
but left some random isolated scratches all over the paint
Click to expand...

This is normal. When you buff out neglected paint the first thing you do is remove all the SHALLOW paint defects and then all the DEEPER defects show up like a Sore Thumb.

My article on this topic,

RIDS - The Definition of RIDS and the story behind the term...



leif20 said:
My questions now:

1. To get out the RIDS what would be the best combo to use. I feel like UC along with an orange pad should do the trick, or do I need to step it up?
Click to expand...

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound is a quality product. If the orange foam pad don't get it you can SLOW down your arm speed and make more passes or get a microfiber pad. MF pads don't normally "feel" smooth or good on gear-driven orbitals but you can fight through it.


Be sure to read these two articles too and if this is a DAILY DRIVER - not a SHOW CAR - tread carefully versus going to far...

Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


When to stop buffing - Or - How far should you go to remove swirls and scratches?





leif20 said:
2. For the defects in the last two pics (swirls installed as part of washing), will meg's ultimate polish with hex logic orange or white take them out?

Thanks for all the tips!
Click to expand...

I'd jump right to the UC.


Again, thanks for the follow-up.


:)
 
Where abouts are you in Toronto? I'm in Toronto as well. Ultimate Compound isn't that aggressive, specially not on a BMW paint.
 
I am in Richmond Hill. How about you?

Thanks for the suggestions. I will do another treatment with UC some time in the next month or two, when I have the time. Of course I'll be keeping in mind that clearcoats are thin!
 
I'm in Vaughan. BMW clearcoat is relatively hard so that maybe the issue.
 
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