swanicyouth
New member
- Mar 3, 2011
- 9,388
- 0
I just picked up a CR Spotless system. I've been going back and forth for about 6 months or so trying to decide if I wanted one and if it was going to make a major difference in washing for me. First off, I didn't get it here at AG. I wanted to, but it turns out AG doesn't carry the model I decided on (DI-120). So, I bought it directly from CR.
I know AG doesn't like you posting reviews on items they don't carry. But, in reality, all the CR Spotless systems are pretty similar. The differences in the systems are:
1.The Configuration: some mount on the wall, some have wheels, some are stationary in what looks like a "quad pod".
2. The Output: CR says they conservatively rate their systems DI water output (amount of water you get before the resin is "used up") based on YOUR water being 200 ppm TDS (total dissolved solids). Their systems are either medium output (100 gallons) or high output (300 gallons).
All the materials on the various systems are basically the same. While I can't comment on the wall mounting or the wheels (I got a stationary system), I feel the systems are close enough that this can help someone who is interested in one of the systems - and it appears AG sells all the systems but the one I wanted.
So, I ended up with the DI-120 medium output system. It looks like this:
It comes pretty much assembled in a large box (how I pulled it out of the box):
Here is the unattached items it comes with:
It comes with a hose nozzle. This is to regulate the water flow, as the water can't pass through the system at a glow rate greater that 2 gpm (gallons per minute) to make DI water with zero solids. So, they give you a regular hose nozzle that has regular hose patterns on it. Certain patterns are under 2 gpm for water flow, so the nozzle can be used to regulate the flow.
They so give you a wrench. That fits around the big blue cylinder to unscrew it when it's time to change the resin. I'm pretty glad this system came assembled, because I really didn't feel like screwing all the stuff together.
They also give you a braided leader hose, which you can use to connect to your hose outlet, so you won't have to buy one. You get directions - and that's it - all you need.
Right away when I got this thing it was bigger and heavier than I expected. I would have to guess its at least 25lbs dry. The whole thing (minus the quad pod frame) seems to be a bunch of readily available parts assembled by CR (not sure about the filter). Its put together well and the frame is very sturdy with a blue speckled finish. The whole systems seems pretty solid, like it would last a long time.
All their systems come with an inline battery operated TDS meter. The meter is hooked up to give you the dissolved solids of the water output in real time. To save batteries, the meter runs in 7 minute intervals, then shuts itself off.
Using the system involves just hooking a water supply hose up to one side (marked "inlet") and and your regular house to the other side. That's it. It came with standard size thick plastic hose threads on both sides. Right away I knew I wasn't going to go screwing and unscrewing hoses each time, so I bought some quick disconnects for a few dollars.
CR also says their systems are fine to use with a pressure washer. However, the pressure washer must not exceed the 2 gpm flow rate the system needs to function correctly. This was the main way I planned on using the system; with a pressure washer. The setup is wall hose to inlet of CR and CR output to pressure washer input. I used the supplied braided hose to got between the CR output and the pressure washer input.
Everything was put together with plastic quick connectors and Teflon tape around the threads. Since I'm only using the system to rinse off the tap water, it had to be easy to quickly place the CR between the pressure washer and the water supply when it was time to rinse. Resin is too expensive (~ $45 for 100 gallons worth of resin based on 200 ppm TDS tap water) to use throughout the whole wash.
The setup:
So, enough people have posted about CR's system that it's now well know to work. Basically, you hook everything up, push a button to turn the meter on, start your pressure washer, pull the trigger on the wand, and the meter reads 000 TDS. How long that meter continues to read zero and how much DI water you get is a basic mathematical equation based on the quantity of ions (particles) in your water and the amount of resin the system holds. In my use of the system, it never fluctuated from zero. Coincidently, I did some water testing to see where my water is at from the tap, and its at about 190 ppm. So, that's right where CR Spotless is at in the rating if their systems.
I'm more interested in reviewing the idea of using DI water in the wash process and how well it works. Theoretically, you wash the car and rinse it without letting anything dry. Then you knock all the tap water off your car with DI water. No ions or particulates in the water - no spots - no drying required. Right?
Well, that's the theory of it. We all know theory doesn't always pan out in reality. This is why I waffled on purchasing the system for so long. Basically, I imagined a lot of things could go wrong in the process to leave you with spots.
These are some of the possibilities I thought of that could go wrong:
1. Since I was only using the system during the "final rinse" spots could form on the surface before that point while still using tap water.
2. The DI water may not "knock off" the tap water completely or effectively from the surface
3. Tap water may drip out of areas of the car after the final rinse and cause spots.
4. Dust or dirt in the air may land on the surface and cause spots.
5. Some other unknown reason like contaminates from the hose could cause spots.
Mainly I was concerned with reasons numbers 1 and 5. The way a like to wash a most of the times is to:
1. Clean wheels conventionally.
2. Foam car
3. Pressure rinse off foam and knock off as much dirt as possibly prior to touching the paint
4. Do a GDWM style rinseless wash.
While it may not make sense to some to foam / pressure rinse the car prior to doing a rinseless wash, or to do a rinseless wash if you have hose access - this method works well for me because:
1. Its faster than a 2BM because their isn't the constant rinsing of the car or the wash media.
2. Its easier to drag a bucket with 2 gallons of DI water around the car than 2 full 5 gallon buckets. This is huge for me, because even though I made a dolly, I still hate pushing those buckets around. I'm generally lazy when it comes to pushing / lifting / moving anything heavy.
3. I like the slickness and shine a good rinseless wash, like Pinnacle, leaves behind.
4. I think your LSP lasts longer if you wash with a polymer based soap (rinseless "soap") compare to a surfactant based ( conventional soap), because the with the rinseless product any protection the product leaves behind isn't rinsed away.
5. You don't have to deal with the (pressure washer) hose going around the car and getting caught under the tires after the initial foam and rinse.
6. I think using Pinnacle Rinseless and Pinnacle Waterless (both with carnauba) together is a great combo.
Anyway, that's how I like to do it. The issue has always been, after you foam the car, the car is wet in the summer sun, but your not using a hose to rinse it off during the rinseless wash. My idea was to foam / rinse with tap water. Then, do a second quick rinse with DI water. After that, do a GDWM style rinseless wash using DI water in the bucket and using waterless wash made from DI water in the process as well.
Theoretically, once I know all the tap water is off the car, I'm working strictly with DI water - and DI water is sitting on the car - so I SHOULD be able to do a rinseless wash in the blazing hot sun and take my sweet time while the DI rinse water sits on the surface or evaporates.
Well that's the concept. The day after I got the CR was the perfect day to test it out. The sun was out all day bright as could be - not a cloud in the sky. Temps were high 80s to low 90s. Paint was hot to the touch. Would it pan out?
First, I foamed using DP Xtreme Foam. Then I rinsed with tap water. Then I quickly undid the hose, and hooked up the CR Spotless in front of the pressure washer as directed. Then I sprayed the vehicle down with the DI water. The meter read 000, so that was a good sign.
I had a bucket prepared with seven x 700 gsm waterless wash towels soaking in 2 gallons of Pinnacle Rinseless in DI water, a sprayer with Pinnacle Waterless made from DI water, and a little bottle of of Poor Boys Spray and Gloss to use as a drying aid, and some waffle weave towels.
After the DI rinse, it was getting hot. It was high noon. Much of the DI post foam rinse water was evaporating off the car and the paint was warm to the touch. I'm thinking to myself "there is just no way this is going to work well, I'll just go through the motions and fix it when I'm done...hopefully the spots won't be too hard to get off".
My SUV has a lot of glass, all of it has a factory black tint on it. It spots fast and easy. So, I started there instead of the roof. Right away I noticed an amazing difference. The glass was drying from the rinse all around me and there were no spots at all. The hood was drying and there were no spots. The difference was amazing and not what I was used to seeing. I'm used to having to deal with at least some water spots on the glass, and that's while doing a conventional 2BM wash and doing my best to keep them wet 100% of the time. The only way I could previously do a rinseless after foaming was to wait until the sun went down or get up at the crack of dawn and hurry.
I then went around and completed the wash. It was astounding how well it worked. The car was wet, its was baking in the sun, but there were no spots! The sun was not a factor at all. Everything was working like it was inside on a cool day. I was really impressed.
The next day I wanted to wash my black BMW. It wasn't too sunny or too hot. But, I wanted to try it anyway and the car is black. This time I was going to do a regular 2BM wash, keep the car wet, rinse with DI water when I was done, and just air dry the car with an AirForce Blaster. Same result. Pretty amazing. I was able to blow dry the car, take my time, and no spots at all. Didn't use a single drying towel. The process works and it works well.
While using the water from this thing I tried to keep count of how long I was spraying it for. If I know how long I was spraying, I could figure out how much volume I was using, since it was going through a pressure washer at gallons per minute. I counted about 150 seconds, or about 2.5 minutes. Using my pressure washer that's rated at 1.25 gpm, that means I used about 3 & 1/8 gallons of DI water to rinse the whole vehicle.
Rounding that up to 3.5 gallons, that should mean I'll get over 25 uses out of it before I need to replace or recharge the resin. Since new resin is $45 or so, each wash is costing me about $2.00 in DI water usage - not including the original investment in the system. Not too bad.
The one thing is, its another step. So, washing is now more complicated. Its something else to drag out, hook up, and put away. Its not 100% necessary, there are ways around it, but they are inconvenient. But, I think foaming prior to a rinseless (or at least pressure washing) knocks off 90% of the dirt, and this is the only way I can do that without getting spots all over, especially on the glass, in the summer. One improvement that could be made to the unit is a way leave it hooked up during the whole wash, and a built in bypass switch, so you could turn the DI water off and on without undoing the hoses.
Watching the car basically dry itself clean and spot free was pretty cool. So, my verdict here is, the theory does pan out into reality. I would recommend this (any CR Spotless unit) to anyone on the fence about picking one of these things up who is concerned with the efficacy like I was. AG sells almost all of them, and pricing is the same pretty much everywhere, so you may as well get it here if they have the model you want.
I know AG doesn't like you posting reviews on items they don't carry. But, in reality, all the CR Spotless systems are pretty similar. The differences in the systems are:
1.The Configuration: some mount on the wall, some have wheels, some are stationary in what looks like a "quad pod".
2. The Output: CR says they conservatively rate their systems DI water output (amount of water you get before the resin is "used up") based on YOUR water being 200 ppm TDS (total dissolved solids). Their systems are either medium output (100 gallons) or high output (300 gallons).
All the materials on the various systems are basically the same. While I can't comment on the wall mounting or the wheels (I got a stationary system), I feel the systems are close enough that this can help someone who is interested in one of the systems - and it appears AG sells all the systems but the one I wanted.
So, I ended up with the DI-120 medium output system. It looks like this:
It comes pretty much assembled in a large box (how I pulled it out of the box):
Here is the unattached items it comes with:
It comes with a hose nozzle. This is to regulate the water flow, as the water can't pass through the system at a glow rate greater that 2 gpm (gallons per minute) to make DI water with zero solids. So, they give you a regular hose nozzle that has regular hose patterns on it. Certain patterns are under 2 gpm for water flow, so the nozzle can be used to regulate the flow.
They so give you a wrench. That fits around the big blue cylinder to unscrew it when it's time to change the resin. I'm pretty glad this system came assembled, because I really didn't feel like screwing all the stuff together.
They also give you a braided leader hose, which you can use to connect to your hose outlet, so you won't have to buy one. You get directions - and that's it - all you need.
Right away when I got this thing it was bigger and heavier than I expected. I would have to guess its at least 25lbs dry. The whole thing (minus the quad pod frame) seems to be a bunch of readily available parts assembled by CR (not sure about the filter). Its put together well and the frame is very sturdy with a blue speckled finish. The whole systems seems pretty solid, like it would last a long time.
All their systems come with an inline battery operated TDS meter. The meter is hooked up to give you the dissolved solids of the water output in real time. To save batteries, the meter runs in 7 minute intervals, then shuts itself off.
Using the system involves just hooking a water supply hose up to one side (marked "inlet") and and your regular house to the other side. That's it. It came with standard size thick plastic hose threads on both sides. Right away I knew I wasn't going to go screwing and unscrewing hoses each time, so I bought some quick disconnects for a few dollars.
CR also says their systems are fine to use with a pressure washer. However, the pressure washer must not exceed the 2 gpm flow rate the system needs to function correctly. This was the main way I planned on using the system; with a pressure washer. The setup is wall hose to inlet of CR and CR output to pressure washer input. I used the supplied braided hose to got between the CR output and the pressure washer input.
Everything was put together with plastic quick connectors and Teflon tape around the threads. Since I'm only using the system to rinse off the tap water, it had to be easy to quickly place the CR between the pressure washer and the water supply when it was time to rinse. Resin is too expensive (~ $45 for 100 gallons worth of resin based on 200 ppm TDS tap water) to use throughout the whole wash.
The setup:
So, enough people have posted about CR's system that it's now well know to work. Basically, you hook everything up, push a button to turn the meter on, start your pressure washer, pull the trigger on the wand, and the meter reads 000 TDS. How long that meter continues to read zero and how much DI water you get is a basic mathematical equation based on the quantity of ions (particles) in your water and the amount of resin the system holds. In my use of the system, it never fluctuated from zero. Coincidently, I did some water testing to see where my water is at from the tap, and its at about 190 ppm. So, that's right where CR Spotless is at in the rating if their systems.
I'm more interested in reviewing the idea of using DI water in the wash process and how well it works. Theoretically, you wash the car and rinse it without letting anything dry. Then you knock all the tap water off your car with DI water. No ions or particulates in the water - no spots - no drying required. Right?
Well, that's the theory of it. We all know theory doesn't always pan out in reality. This is why I waffled on purchasing the system for so long. Basically, I imagined a lot of things could go wrong in the process to leave you with spots.
These are some of the possibilities I thought of that could go wrong:
1. Since I was only using the system during the "final rinse" spots could form on the surface before that point while still using tap water.
2. The DI water may not "knock off" the tap water completely or effectively from the surface
3. Tap water may drip out of areas of the car after the final rinse and cause spots.
4. Dust or dirt in the air may land on the surface and cause spots.
5. Some other unknown reason like contaminates from the hose could cause spots.
Mainly I was concerned with reasons numbers 1 and 5. The way a like to wash a most of the times is to:
1. Clean wheels conventionally.
2. Foam car
3. Pressure rinse off foam and knock off as much dirt as possibly prior to touching the paint
4. Do a GDWM style rinseless wash.
While it may not make sense to some to foam / pressure rinse the car prior to doing a rinseless wash, or to do a rinseless wash if you have hose access - this method works well for me because:
1. Its faster than a 2BM because their isn't the constant rinsing of the car or the wash media.
2. Its easier to drag a bucket with 2 gallons of DI water around the car than 2 full 5 gallon buckets. This is huge for me, because even though I made a dolly, I still hate pushing those buckets around. I'm generally lazy when it comes to pushing / lifting / moving anything heavy.
3. I like the slickness and shine a good rinseless wash, like Pinnacle, leaves behind.
4. I think your LSP lasts longer if you wash with a polymer based soap (rinseless "soap") compare to a surfactant based ( conventional soap), because the with the rinseless product any protection the product leaves behind isn't rinsed away.
5. You don't have to deal with the (pressure washer) hose going around the car and getting caught under the tires after the initial foam and rinse.
6. I think using Pinnacle Rinseless and Pinnacle Waterless (both with carnauba) together is a great combo.
Anyway, that's how I like to do it. The issue has always been, after you foam the car, the car is wet in the summer sun, but your not using a hose to rinse it off during the rinseless wash. My idea was to foam / rinse with tap water. Then, do a second quick rinse with DI water. After that, do a GDWM style rinseless wash using DI water in the bucket and using waterless wash made from DI water in the process as well.
Theoretically, once I know all the tap water is off the car, I'm working strictly with DI water - and DI water is sitting on the car - so I SHOULD be able to do a rinseless wash in the blazing hot sun and take my sweet time while the DI rinse water sits on the surface or evaporates.
Well that's the concept. The day after I got the CR was the perfect day to test it out. The sun was out all day bright as could be - not a cloud in the sky. Temps were high 80s to low 90s. Paint was hot to the touch. Would it pan out?
First, I foamed using DP Xtreme Foam. Then I rinsed with tap water. Then I quickly undid the hose, and hooked up the CR Spotless in front of the pressure washer as directed. Then I sprayed the vehicle down with the DI water. The meter read 000, so that was a good sign.
I had a bucket prepared with seven x 700 gsm waterless wash towels soaking in 2 gallons of Pinnacle Rinseless in DI water, a sprayer with Pinnacle Waterless made from DI water, and a little bottle of of Poor Boys Spray and Gloss to use as a drying aid, and some waffle weave towels.
After the DI rinse, it was getting hot. It was high noon. Much of the DI post foam rinse water was evaporating off the car and the paint was warm to the touch. I'm thinking to myself "there is just no way this is going to work well, I'll just go through the motions and fix it when I'm done...hopefully the spots won't be too hard to get off".
My SUV has a lot of glass, all of it has a factory black tint on it. It spots fast and easy. So, I started there instead of the roof. Right away I noticed an amazing difference. The glass was drying from the rinse all around me and there were no spots at all. The hood was drying and there were no spots. The difference was amazing and not what I was used to seeing. I'm used to having to deal with at least some water spots on the glass, and that's while doing a conventional 2BM wash and doing my best to keep them wet 100% of the time. The only way I could previously do a rinseless after foaming was to wait until the sun went down or get up at the crack of dawn and hurry.
I then went around and completed the wash. It was astounding how well it worked. The car was wet, its was baking in the sun, but there were no spots! The sun was not a factor at all. Everything was working like it was inside on a cool day. I was really impressed.
The next day I wanted to wash my black BMW. It wasn't too sunny or too hot. But, I wanted to try it anyway and the car is black. This time I was going to do a regular 2BM wash, keep the car wet, rinse with DI water when I was done, and just air dry the car with an AirForce Blaster. Same result. Pretty amazing. I was able to blow dry the car, take my time, and no spots at all. Didn't use a single drying towel. The process works and it works well.
While using the water from this thing I tried to keep count of how long I was spraying it for. If I know how long I was spraying, I could figure out how much volume I was using, since it was going through a pressure washer at gallons per minute. I counted about 150 seconds, or about 2.5 minutes. Using my pressure washer that's rated at 1.25 gpm, that means I used about 3 & 1/8 gallons of DI water to rinse the whole vehicle.
Rounding that up to 3.5 gallons, that should mean I'll get over 25 uses out of it before I need to replace or recharge the resin. Since new resin is $45 or so, each wash is costing me about $2.00 in DI water usage - not including the original investment in the system. Not too bad.
The one thing is, its another step. So, washing is now more complicated. Its something else to drag out, hook up, and put away. Its not 100% necessary, there are ways around it, but they are inconvenient. But, I think foaming prior to a rinseless (or at least pressure washing) knocks off 90% of the dirt, and this is the only way I can do that without getting spots all over, especially on the glass, in the summer. One improvement that could be made to the unit is a way leave it hooked up during the whole wash, and a built in bypass switch, so you could turn the DI water off and on without undoing the hoses.
Watching the car basically dry itself clean and spot free was pretty cool. So, my verdict here is, the theory does pan out into reality. I would recommend this (any CR Spotless unit) to anyone on the fence about picking one of these things up who is concerned with the efficacy like I was. AG sells almost all of them, and pricing is the same pretty much everywhere, so you may as well get it here if they have the model you want.
