(DA) 8mm standard throw vs. 12/15/21mm larger throw

VISITOR

VISITOR

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does anyone else think that a bigger stroke isn't always better. for example, if you had a little scratch/scuff on your paint and rubbed it out by hand with a foam applicator and polish/compound with quick 2-3 inch strokes as opposed to 4+ inch strokes the defects would probably come out quicker because you're using small/quicker isolated strokes to remove the defects..

you would think the new megs mt300 and torq10fx DA's would be offered with a larger size throw but still use the standard 8mm throw like most other (traditional) DA's and still do an excellent job even though we all know pads, liquids, and technique play major roles as well...

just thinking out loud hear and would like to hear and welcome everyone's thoughts/opinions on this....
 
I think the new machines are 8mm throw because it prolly takes mega $$$ invested to make a large throw machine that is smooth and balanced like the Rupes and doesn't shake itself apart.

CGs & Megs don't make tools. They are contracting this job out. Rupes has been making tools forever. So they have the knowledge, testing facilities, and tooling to design a tool like this completely from the ground up.

The rest are just a smoother PC with a copy cat Rupes body IMHO.
 
In your example:
What are the differences, if any, between the
"scratch patterns" that are left from the: by-hand-technique's 2"-strokes vs. 4"-strokes...when using a compound/polish on a _?_" foam pad?

Going with the results from there...
In your opinion:
Would castling the above bias/approach into using:
by-Polisher-techniques with Polishers having 8mm stroke vs. those having 12-15-21mm strokes, on the same sized (_?_ ") foam pads, be of any consequence for comparison?


Bob
 
Pig Tails left by a Rupes are more flowing and beautiful than those left by the Brutish Flex 3401
 
Whether polishing a single defect or. Anentire panel, what's most important is knowing what your doing and what your working with. I regularly polish granite countertops in people's houses, who have a hairline scratch running through their natural stone tops. In this instance, limiting the amount of material you touch with your first step is absolutely critical to not only how long you will work to remove the defect but also to how effectively you can consistently polish the area to match the surrounding surface.

As far as paint goes, blending a worked area with a properly polished panel should be cake. For my day job, a 3" rotary diamond pad is what I'll start with when doing onsite repairs. For paint, the thought of using a machine or pad that uses an inch or even 13mm less than what I would usually use to polish an entire panel instead of focusing on a single defect is absolutely irrelevant IME.
 
Sharing relative experience, Kyle. Thanks for the cohesive and concise input!
 
swanicyouth said:
I think the new machines are 8mm throw because it prolly takes mega $$$ invested to make a large throw machine that is smooth and balanced like the Rupes and doesn't shake itself apart.

CGs & Megs don't make tools. They are contracting this job out. Rupes has been making tools forever. So they have the knowledge, testing facilities, and tooling to design a tool like this completely from the ground up.

The rest are just a smoother PC with a copy cat Rupes body IMHO.
Click to expand...

flex would of jumped on the larger throw bandwagon if they felt it was necessary, yet they still have the 3401 with the 8mm throw. having the interchangeable backing plate with use of smaller 4" pads and still be smooth as it is, i'm wondering if a few mm's more would make that big of a difference where using smaller pads would effect it's performance. also, megs if i'm not mistaken built/designed their new DA from the ground up with the assistance of the tool company producing them. it lists for around $300 and i'm sure if they felt the need to go a bit bigger in throw, they would have. who knows... thanks for the replies thus far everyone...
 
Belphegor said:
Sharing relative experience, Kyle. Thanks for the cohesive and concise input!
Click to expand...

Was it your interpretation that the OP is polishing an 8-21mm area?

I couldn't sync up your response with the OP's question
 
swanicyouth said:
I think the new machines are 8mm throw because it prolly takes mega $$$ invested to make a large throw machine that is smooth and balanced like the Rupes and doesn't shake itself apart.

CGs & Megs don't make tools. They are contracting this job out. Rupes has been making tools forever. So they have the knowledge, testing facilities, and tooling to design a tool like this completely from the ground up.

The rest are just a smoother PC with a copy cat Rupes body IMHO.
Click to expand...

The following is all speculation on my part:

Porter Cable has been around awhile and is much larger than Rupes and they have chosen not to launch bigger throw

I don't think Rupes is bigger than FLEX. Certainly FLEX has similar resources and technical expertise

The Chinese can reverse engineer almost anything and could certainly knock off any machine within 10% of the original tool

I believe it is an issue of primacy & market share

Porter Cable was 1st, they maintain the largest market share of DA polisher/sanders

Rupes was 1st with a widely marketed, successful long-throw DA. No one, so far, has rushed in to compete in this segment. It isn't a patent issue or the inventor of the Tilt-a-Whirl would be suing...they have a much larger throw...like 15 feet

No other manufacturer has tried to compete head-to-head with PC. They don't have the total sales or the lower manufacturing coat that comes with it. Maybe they can't compete at a profit, so they go lower in price like the Harbor Freight or higher in power & price like the Griot's or somewhere in the middle like the Meguiar's machines

Just thoughts
 
Belphegor online, Cam in person.


In demonology, Belphegor is a demon, and one of the seven princes of Hell, who helps people make discoveries.

That...I did not know

If I had known you were one of the 7 Princes of Hell, here to help us make discoveries; I would have been much more reverent
 
VISITOR said:
does anyone else think that a bigger stroke isn't always better. for example, if you had a little scratch/scuff on your paint and rubbed it out by hand with a foam applicator and polish/compound with quick 2-3 inch strokes as opposed to 4+ inch strokes the defects would probably come out quicker because you're using small/quicker isolated strokes to remove the defects..

you would think the new megs mt300 and torq10fx DA's would be offered with a larger size throw but still use the standard 8mm throw like most other (traditional) DA's and still do an excellent job even though we all know pads, liquids, and technique play major roles as well...

just thinking out loud hear and would like to hear and welcome everyone's thoughts/opinions on this....
Click to expand...

Being an ex owner of 3401 and 7424xp and current owner of DAS pro (similar to griot), shinemate ero 600 and rupes 21, the machine I reach out the most is actually a 8mm DA. 8mm is just more versatile imo. I still prefer 21mm for paint correction on flatter panels but other than that, its 8mm DA for me.
 
dschia said:
Being an ex owner of 3401 and 7424xp and current owner of DAS pro (similar to griot), shinemate ero 600 and rupes 21, the machine I reach out the most is actually a 8mm DA. 8mm is just more versatile imo. I still prefer 21mm for paint correction on flatter panels but other than that, its 8mm DA for me.
Click to expand...

that's what i was thinking as well. to adapt to different backing plates and pads this seems to be a universal size throw to accomodate different situations while being versatile...
 
allenk4 said:
I don't think Rupes is bigger than FLEX. Certainly FLEX has similar resources and technical expertise
Click to expand...

if flex had the same throw machine as the rupes i would of opt easily for the flex instead. rupes QC isn't all that great/consistent IMO...
 
VISITOR said:
if flex had the same throw machine as the rupes i would of opt easily for the flex instead. rupes QC isn't all that great/consistent IMO...
Click to expand...

Just to be clear when I said "bigger" I was referring to the size of the company, not the throw of the machine

Italian QC rarely exceeds ZeeGermans....the "Good" Germans, not the ones like Rommel
 
VISITOR said:
if flex had the same throw machine as the rupes i would of opt easily for the flex instead. rupes QC isn't all that great/consistent IMO...
Click to expand...


I haven't seen a lot of posts saying "my Rupes broke" or even "my Rupes didn't work out of the the box"...In fact, I can't even recall one (I'm sure there is one somewhere). However, I can recall posts saying my Flex broke. Maybe because Flex has been in the US detailing market longer? Not sure.

But a lot of pros are using Rupes and they seem to be holding up.
 
allenk4 said:
Was it your interpretation that the OP is polishing an 8-21mm area?

I couldn't sync up your response with the OP's question
Click to expand...

No, it was my understanding that he was bringing up for discussion the idea that a bigger throw could be detrimental because of the larger footprint. IMO, the bigger throw would not make much of a difference on most paint, especially if the cutting action is the same as when using the same sized pad with smaller throw.

allenk4 said:
Belphegor online, Cam in person.


In demonology, Belphegor is a demon, and one of the seven princes of Hell, who helps people make discoveries.

That...I did not know

If I had known you were one of the 7 Princes of Hell, here to help us make discoveries; I would have been much more reverent
Click to expand...

You're about the fifth person to tell me what my online name means, and the definition you've found is the fifth unique definition I've heard.

What the name means to me: it's the name of an Austrian black metal band I've really enjoyed listening to over the years :xyxthumbs:
 
swanicyouth said:
I haven't seen a lot of posts saying "my Rupes broke" or even "my Rupes didn't work out of the the box"...In fact, I can't even recall one (I'm sure there is one somewhere). However, I can recall posts saying my Flex broke. Maybe because Flex has been in the US detailing market longer? Not sure.

But a lot of pros are using Rupes and they seem to be holding up.
Click to expand...

the main thing i'm talking about is the physical appearance of the machine when you get them. marred/scratched body, nick in the cord, messy/greasy backing plate. yes i know that appearance doesn't play a role in how the machine works, but for a $400 machine it should arrive dayum near spotless. not to mention when they first came out and maybe still now, there wasn't a repair facility like there is with flex in the USA. the build quality of the flex is easily a notch up above rupes IMO...

renny has his first flex from almost 10 years ago and has detailed 100's if not 1000's of cars with it (he details more cars in a few months then we will probably ever encounter in a lifetime) and it just goes to show you the build quality of a flex tool. there's no wrong or right choice but if there were two equivalent polishers between the two, i would pick a flex tool over a rupes anyday of the week. just my opinion, everyone has their's...

[video=youtube_share;CdXhKZbftig"]Rupes 21 polisher vs Flex 3401 polisher - YouTube[/video]
 
allenk4 said:
Pig Tails left by a Rupes are more flowing and beautiful than those left by the Brutish Flex 3401
Click to expand...

Please don't take this the wrong way, no insult intended. I have been wet sanding all morning with Meguiars Unigrit 1500 Foam Finishing Disks with a 12,000 OPM DA sander, to level out orange peel on a clear coat finish. I then followed up with my Flex PE14 using Menzerna FG400. I also buffed out a large section with my Flex 3401. I didn't get any pig tails because the only time you get pigtails is sanding or buffing with trash under the pads or disks. By keeping everything clean pig tails are not an issue. The PE14 left a mirror finish with no imperfections. The 3401 also left a perfectly clear flawless finish that looked just as clear. Each machine will correct any defect very quickly.

I have an advanced case of arthritis and the smoother the machine, I have less fatigue and pain in my joints. That's why I use the PE14 as much as I can. It is the smoothest running polisher I have ever used. I do not own a Rupes yet but I don't see any way that a free floating DA can correct like the forced rotation of the 3401. The pad never stops rotating no matter what situation you put the machine in. So correction is going to happen in every case, no exceptions. If the Rupes is as smooth as I have heard then I can see a benefit having less vibration. The question is can it correct as well on curved panels and places where more pressure is applied.

One thing I can assure everyone the Flex machines do not stop under any circumstance. They work 100% of the time until you turn off the power.
 
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