(DA) 8mm standard throw vs. 12/15/21mm larger throw

VISITOR said:
does anyone else think that a bigger stroke isn't always better. for example, if you had a little scratch/scuff on your paint and rubbed it out by hand with a foam applicator and polish/compound with quick 2-3 inch strokes as opposed to 4+ inch strokes the defects would probably come out quicker because you're using small/quicker isolated strokes to remove the defects..

you would think the new megs mt300 and torq10fx DA's would be offered with a larger size throw but still use the standard 8mm throw like most other (traditional) DA's and still do an excellent job even though we all know pads, liquids, and technique play major roles as well...

just thinking out loud hear and would like to hear and welcome everyone's thoughts/opinions on this....
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A good read if you haven't already seen/read it. ;)

http://www.buffdaddy.com/files/1519...Affects Sanding and Polishing Performance.pdf
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Shoot, and I thought it was Todd Helme who did the pencils in the backing plate...am I not remembering right, did they do it together, or did Todd borrow Kevin's pictures?
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I'm almost positive that was Kevin's doing. I think I recall the article of Todd's your referring to though. :props:
 
They are all tools, so it varies on the operator and what is being done. Big throw DA's has a residue issue to be recognized and adjusted for during the buffing process.
 
VISITOR said:
the main thing i'm talking about is the physical appearance of the machine when you get them. marred/scratched body, nick in the cord, messy/greasy backing plate. yes i know that appearance doesn't play a role in how the machine works, but for a $400 machine it should arrive dayum near spotless. not to mention when they first came out and maybe still now, there wasn't a repair facility like there is with flex in the USA. the build quality of the flex is easily a notch up above rupes IMO...

renny has his first flex from almost 10 years ago and has detailed 100's if not 1000's of cars with it (he details more cars in a few months then we will probably ever encounter in a lifetime) and it just goes to show you the build quality of a flex tool. there's no wrong or right choice but if there were two equivalent polishers between the two, i would pick a flex tool over a rupes anyday of the week. just my opinion, everyone has their's...

[video=youtube_share;CdXhKZbftig"]Rupes 21 polisher vs Flex 3401 polisher - YouTube[/video]
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I'm sorry, but I still disagree. If a few machines come with smudges, a scratch, or whatever - I do t see that as "quality" - which to most of us means the useful life of the tool without break down. These are tools - not display pieces. Someone complaining because their Rupes arrives with grease on the BP. Lol! It's supposed to be there.

Now a nick in the cord is a quality issue - but I haven't seen anyone complain of this, although I'm sure the search function would reveal someone who claims their machine came with a nick in the cord.

On the other hand, I've seen posts about the 3401 where the switch went bad, the cord went bad, various BPs blew up, etc... I'm not saying it's a poor machine - there are likely to be more "issues" since its been around longer... I'm sure it's a great, high quality machine. I can only recall one post where someone's Rupes went bad - although I'm sure there are more (but not many)..

I'm just saying the 3401 hasn't necessarily proven more reliable than Rupes machines yet.

As for the FIAT crowd (Fix It Again Tony), who thinks Italy can't make reliable tools simple because they are "Italy" - I don't buy that either. Rupes ain't no PC and it ain't no Griot's - we have seen numerous failures of those machines for various reasons and machines that don't work out of the box. I just don't see people posting "my Rupes broke".
 
VISITOR said:
chad.. i've seen that already, thanks for the heads up... :props:
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My opinion to your original post based on my experience with most of the currently available tools (Flex, 8mm DA and the 12/15/21) is that larger throw tools ARE better in terms of correction speed and finishing, but they are not always the best tool, which is why I have so many. :D

99.9% of the cars I do are done with at least 2 tools, but typically 3. Rupes 21 is almost always used for the main body, Rupes mini or G110v2 is used for the bumper covers and tight areas, and the TA50 or a rotary is used for really tight areas and precision work.


My $.02

Rasky
 
RaskyR1 said:
My opinion to your original post based on my experience with most of the currently available tools (Flex, 8mm DA and the 12/15/21) is that larger throw tools ARE better in terms of correction speed and finishing, but they are not always the best tool, which is why I have so many. :D

99.9% of the cars I do are done with at least 2 tools, but typically 3. Rupes 21 is almost always used for the main body, Rupes mini or G110v2 is used for the bumper covers and tight areas, and the TA50 or a rotary is used for really tight areas and precision work.


My $.02

Rasky
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the main two polishers i use and have been very happy with is both the GG6 and flex 3401. love them both... :dblthumb2:
 
swanicyouth said:
I'm sorry, but I still disagree. If a few machines come with smudges, a scratch, or whatever - I do t see that as "quality" - which to most of us means the useful life of the tool without break down. These are tools - not display pieces. Someone complaining because their Rupes arrives with grease on the BP. Lol! It's supposed to be there.

Now a nick in the cord is a quality issue - but I haven't seen anyone complain of this, although I'm sure the search function would reveal someone who claims their machine came with a nick in the cord.

On the other hand, I've seen posts about the 3401 where the switch went bad, the cord went bad, various BPs blew up, etc... I'm not saying it's a poor machine - there are likely to be more "issues" since its been around longer... I'm sure it's a great, high quality machine. I can only recall one post where someone's Rupes went bad - although I'm sure there are more (but not many)..

I'm just saying the 3401 hasn't necessarily proven more reliable than Rupes machines yet.

As for the FIAT crowd (Fix It Again Tony), who thinks Italy can't make reliable tools simple because they are "Italy" - I don't buy that either. Rupes ain't no PC and it ain't no Griot's - we have seen numerous failures of those machines for various reasons and machines that don't work out of the box. I just don't see people posting "my Rupes broke".
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that's like buying a TV that's suppose to be brand new out of the box as opposed to buying a floor model that has scratches/nicks on it for the same price. sure it will perform the same (most likely) but QC should be top notch for a power tool that costs as much as it does when it's sold new. i have both the flex and rupes and i reach for the flex most of the time (more versatile) and it's been a proven warrior with hundreds/thousands of detail enthusiasts/pro's and if there's a problem, it's reassuring to know they have the powerhouse repair facility (in nebraska) to take care of it. at the time when they first arrived, would you want to send your rupes to italy to have them repair it if there was a problem? no thanks. one thing i noticed is bob (flex) eichelburg seems to have a good presence (here in the states and here on AG) with the company/flex (just an e-mail away) and seem to stand by their products 100% which is another reason why i would choose a flex as well. not here to argue, you have your opinion and i have mine. happy thanksgiving buddy...
 
Garyhw48 said:
Please don't take this the wrong way, no insult intended. I have been wet sanding all morning with Meguiars Unigrit 1500 Foam Finishing Disks with a 12,000 OPM DA sander, to level out orange peel on a clear coat finish. I then followed up with my Flex PE14 using Menzerna FG400. I also buffed out a large section with my Flex 3401. I didn't get any pig tails because the only time you get pigtails is sanding or buffing with trash under the pads or disks. By keeping everything clean pig tails are not an issue. The PE14 left a mirror finish with no imperfections. The 3401 also left a perfectly clear flawless finish that looked just as clear. Each machine will correct any defect very quickly.

I have an advanced case of arthritis and the smoother the machine, I have less fatigue and pain in my joints. That's why I use the PE14 as much as I can. It is the smoothest running polisher I have ever used. I do not own a Rupes yet but I don't see any way that a free floating DA can correct like the forced rotation of the 3401. The pad never stops rotating no matter what situation you put the machine in. So correction is going to happen in every case, no exceptions. If the Rupes is as smooth as I have heard then I can see a benefit having less vibration. The question is can it correct as well on curved panels and places where more pressure is applied.

One thing I can assure everyone the Flex machines do not stop under any circumstance. They work 100% of the time until you turn off the power.
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No insult taken

I am a 3401 devotee

I was referring to the general perception that Itailans are known for beautiful design and Germans are known for get it done engineering


The pigtails from a Rupes do look very different than those from an 8mm machine
 
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