DA or Rotary?!?!

[Bates Detailing]

Ok - Ive been using a rotary for MANY years now. After turning an RV - I am exhausted! My guys are great with the cyclo, but can't handle a rotary with a wool pad, or even a lite cutting pad. This poses an issue because I basically did the first 4 steps on this 38ft RV alone, final step was done with the cyclo by my guys. There is NO WAY I can cut into paint, fiberglass, whatever every single day alone.... Can a Flex or any other DA with a large radius cut as well as a rotary?!?!?

 

[Rix6]

How about with megs or optimum's microfiber pads? It seems like folks get lots of cut with those on a DA.

 

[Bates Detailing]

How about with megs or optimum's microfiber pads? It seems like folks get lots of cut with those on a DA.

Good idea, never tried them or researched them (read a thread or two about them). They are used to correct?!?!?! Easy to control?!?!?

 

[Vegas Transplant]

Ok - but can't handle a rotary with a wool pad, or even a lite cutting pad.

B&B , this is not an answer to your question. However the rv would have been the perfect opportunity for them to get their hands dirty, so to speak.
They have got to learn some sooner rather than later. I might not be making sense so i'll close and let you get back to the business at hand.

 

[Bates Detailing]

B&B , this is not an answer to your question. However the rv would have been the perfect opportunity for them to get their hands dirty, so to speak.
They have got to learn some sooner rather than later. I might not be making sense so i'll close and let you get back to the business at hand.

Yeah - I did my best to train there.... one of my guys did "ok" with a black foam waffle pad and a finishing polish. Two of them tried the first step with a wool pad and a heavy cut compound and got man handled by the Makita. I can tell them how to do it, but I must say that I am no teacher. I get frustrated very quick and just want to grab the Makita and finish the job. The DA is so simple and easy to use that I would like to find a solution to both problems (my bad teaching skills and their inability to "feel" the direction of the rotary).

 

[Vegas Transplant]

I can't comment on either the flex or mf cutting/pol pads as i've no dealings with them.849 is my deal.As I said I'll get out your way. Stay blessed.

 

[Bates Detailing]

I can't comment on either the flex or mf cutting/pol pads as i've no dealings with them.849 is my deal.As I said I'll get out your way. Stay blessed.

No worries man lol - whats the .849?!?! I am an expert in what I have used over the years and that only (makita, cyclo, wool pads, black waffle, white finishing, cyclo pads, etc.) I am trying to broaden my horizons and get these guys the ability to perform in an easier manner.

 

[Rix6]

Yeah - I did my best to train there.... one of my guys did "ok" with a black foam waffle pad and a finishing polish. Two of them tried the first step with a wool pad and a heavy cut compound and got man handled by the Makita. I can tell them how to do it, but I must say that I am no teacher. I get frustrated very quick and just want to grab the Makita and finish the job. The DA is so simple and easy to use that I would like to find a solution to both problems (my bad teaching skills and their inability to "feel" the direction of the rotary).

Send them down to autogeek and let Mike train 'em! But you might have to start paying them more or end up watching them opening up shop next door.

As to the MF pads, I'm not the one to ask, but there are lots here who have used 'em. It seems like meguiars intended for them to be more or less bubba proof.

 

[Bates Detailing]

Send them down to autogeek and let Mike train 'em! But you might have to start paying them more or end up watching them opening up shop next door.

Very true - and a concern I do worry about.... with that said though, I plan on paying them very good so that I don't have to destroy the little health that I have in my bones lol. Between years of training Muay Tai, and years of polishing, my body is done at 28 (29 this week )

 

[aerogt01]

There can be a lot of plain old material removal when it comes to gelcoats. This thread reminds me of tuscarora (sp?) dave's thread on an aluminum trailer. One thing he said that sticks in my head is if he had 2 3401's, he would have saved at least half a day of labor between 2-3 guys.

Short answer - Nothing on a DA will cut like you are used to on a rotary. However, from what I have read I would highly recommend considering a 3401 with a 6.5" PFW pad and other less aggressive options.

While Meg's and Optimum MF pads do cut well on automotive paint, I would doubt they have the necessary cleaning action to get off that oxidized gelcoat, but I may be wrong. If you want to try it they both make 6-6.5" options what will fit on a 3401.

 

[Rix6]

- whats the .849?!?!

DeWalt 849 rotary?

 

[Bates Detailing]

There can be a lot of plain old material removal when it comes to gelcoats. This thread reminds me of tuscarora (sp?) dave's thread on an aluminum trailer. One thing he said that sticks in my head is if he had 2 3401's, he would have saved at least half a day of labor between 2-3 guys.

Short answer - Nothing on a DA will cut like you are used to on a rotary. However, from what I have read I would highly recommend considering a 3401 with a 6.5" PFW pad and other less aggressive options.

While Meg's and Optimum MF pads do cut well on automotive paint, I would doubt they have the necessary cleaning action to get off that oxidized gelcoat, but I may be wrong. If you want to try it they both make 6-6.5" options what will fit on a 3401.

Good info thanx man. One of my guys today said that if we had 2 Makitas the job would have gone much quicker..... only I feel that EVERY step is important and if they jacked up the first step with a Makita that it would have made the time much longer for sure. I'll check into what you are talking about though - thanx man!

 

[tw33k2514]

DA and gel coat do not mix. That said.. For all your other jobs it would not hurt to have a Griots DA on hand for your guys. I think you will be surprised at how much power it has. And when combined with a MF cutting pad it is outstanding.

 

[Rix6]

Very true - and a concern I do worry about.... with that said though, I plan on paying them very good so that I don't have to destroy the little health that I have in my bones lol. Between years of training Muay Tai, and years of polishing, my body is done at 28 (29 this week )

It sounds like you somehow need to figure a vacation into your business plan. I know the logistics of trying to work that into your schedule are rough. But 29 is too young for your body to be done. Rest can heal a lot of wear and tear, much more so at your age than at mine. But you've got to watch out for arthritis. You're really at risk there if you push an injured joint instead of letting it recover.

 

[tuscarora dave]

Yeah - I did my best to train there.... one of my guys did "ok" with a black foam waffle pad and a finishing polish. Two of them tried the first step with a wool pad and a heavy cut compound and got man handled by the Makita. I can tell them how to do it, but I must say that I am no teacher. I get frustrated very quick and just want to grab the Makita and finish the job. The DA is so simple and easy to use that I would like to find a solution to both problems (my bad teaching skills and their inability to "feel" the direction of the rotary).

Doesn't sound like you guys get much slow time but, you might benefit from having a beater around for them to practice on and pay them to practice in the slow times using the rotary only. Practice and experience is the only way to get through the learning curve. If they are "keepers" then it will be a worthy investment of time and money in the long run and relieve some of your responsibility in the end too. Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Hoytman]

Doesn't sound like you guys get much slow time but, you might benefit from having a beater around for them to practice on and pay them to practice in the slow times using the rotary only. Practice and experience is the only way to get through the learning curve. If they are "keepers" then it will be a worthy investment of time and money in the long run and relieve some of your responsibility in the end too. Just my thoughts on it.

:iagree:This is spot on imho. There's only four things I'd add to it.

1. Video yourself teaching. If nothing else you'll learn how not too teach. I always say there's something to learn even if it's what not to do. Then procede to step two.

2. Go spend some time with Mike Phillips yourself. Mike can improve you current skills, but more importantly he's a master at teaching. He can teach you how to teach simply by watching and listening to him during a few sessions. Mastering this will be your greatest skill. Teachers able to change and adapt their message to each student are the best teachers, and they produce the best students.

3. At some point send your guys to learn from Mike as well. Don't be afraid to let them venture out on their own if they chose. It's a good thing that people should want to better themselves. I'd never keep anyone from doing that, but that's just me.

Side note: We have two mechanic business's in town. They actually work together and send business to each other because each one specializes in different things. They both do well in this small town.

4. Dyanbrade attachment for the rotary. Action much like a dual action, but much larger stroke. Chose your pads. It's got power to turn em' all.

 

[Vegas Transplant]

Hoytman, your post is truly insightful. I, myself cannot teach- or seems that I'm not getting my point across. I was self-taught on the use of the rotary and was satisfied with the results for years . I did not master it until I briefly worked at a dealership while in between jobs.
I've got a question: how do I bookmark or save this info. Thank you.

 

[Bates Detailing]

It sounds like you somehow need to figure a vacation into your business plan. I know the logistics of trying to work that into your schedule are rough. But 29 is too young for your body to be done. Rest can heal a lot of wear and tear, much more so at your age than at mine. But you've got to watch out for arthritis. You're really at risk there if you push an injured joint instead of letting it recover.

:iagree:

Doesn't sound like you guys get much slow time but, you might benefit from having a beater around for them to practice on and pay them to practice in the slow times using the rotary only. Practice and experience is the only way to get through the learning curve. If they are "keepers" then it will be a worthy investment of time and money in the long run and relieve some of your responsibility in the end too. Just my thoughts on it.

That may be a plan - I let one guy go to town with the steamer in the work truck... even let him destroy some areas by teaching him how important it is to not leave the steam on a surface to long. He seemed to take well to it.

Good idea, thanx Dave.

:iagree:This is spot on imho. There's only four things I'd add to it.

1. Video yourself teaching. If nothing else you'll learn how not too teach. I always say there's something to learn even if it's what not to do. Then procede to step two.

2. Go spend some time with Mike Phillips yourself. Mike can improve you current skills, but more importantly he's a master at teaching. He can teach you how to teach simply by watching and listening to him during a few sessions. Mastering this will be your greatest skill. Teachers able to change and adapt their message to each student are the best teachers, and they produce the best students.

3. At some point send your guys to learn from Mike as well. Don't be afraid to let them venture out on their own if they chose. It's a good thing that people should want to better themselves. I'd never keep anyone from doing that, but that's just me.

Side note: We have two mechanic business's in town. They actually work together and send business to each other because each one specializes in different things. They both do well in this small town.

4. Dyanbrade attachment for the rotary. Action much like a dual action, but much larger stroke. Chose your pads. It's got power to turn em' all.

Good info man, thanx. Id love to take some time and go to Florida to learn from Mike - he does seem like an awesome teacher. I thought about when we get to the needing a manager stage that I would make it mandatory to go to the autogeek school - I think that would be great training.