DA over Rotary...

UTdetailing

UTdetailing

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Hi Mike,

There is a lot of talk about the forced rotation and long throw DA's available. DEFINETELY not trying to start another "long throw vs forced rotation" thread, but more around True Rotary over DA.

I know you have a ton of time behind a true rotary machine, and wanted to get your thoughts when it comes to moderate - heavy correction with the "newer" DA's. I have thought about purchasing one for a couple of years now, but have always been pretty happy with my Rotary/DA combo.

Aside from the "paint safety" factors of DA's (rather forced or not), when it comes to moderate-heavy correction work, are there other benefits you see with the DA's over a rotary?

I generally like finishing with DA's (GG6/PC), but tend to reach for the concentrated fast spinning pads of a rotary when there is any type of "serious" correction needed. Being an old production detailer, it is normally the "speed" of correction with a rotary that attracts me, but being I no longer do this full time for a living, if there are other benefits that I am missing I don't mind a little extra time behind the machine.

I'm wondering if I am stuck in the "old school" and missing something with the new(er) machines.
 
UTdetailing said:
Hi Mike,

There is a lot of talk about the forced rotation and long throw DA's available. DEFINETELY not trying to start another "long throw vs forced rotation" thread, but more around True Rotary over DA.

I know you have a ton of time behind a true rotary machine, and wanted to get your thoughts when it comes to moderate - heavy correction with the "newer" DA's. I have thought about purchasing one for a couple of years now, but have always been pretty happy with my Rotary/DA combo.

Aside from the "paint safety" factors of DA's (rather forced or not), when it comes to moderate-heavy correction work, are there other benefits you see with the DA's over a rotary?

I generally like finishing with DA's (GG6/PC), but tend to reach for the concentrated fast spinning pads of a rotary when there is any type of "serious" correction needed. Being an old production detailer, it is normally the "speed" of correction with a rotary that attracts me, but being I no longer do this full time for a living, if there are other benefits that I am missing I don't mind a little extra time behind the machine.

I'm wondering if I am stuck in the "old school" and missing something with the new(er) machines.
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I am of the same opinion "find something you like and use it often".

If it works for you stick with it.

However it is always possible to "miss the boat" , but a forced rotation is moving closer to a rotary and the traditional DA is the opposite end of the spectrum.

I started with a rotary, then got my Porter Cable DA.

Once I got the hang of the DA, l rarely use the rotary.

As I only do my own car my needs are meager.
 
Crispy said:
I am of the same opinion "find something you like and use it often".

If it works for you stick with it.

However it is always possible to "miss the boat" , but a forced rotation is moving closer to a rotary and the traditional DA is the opposite end of the spectrum.

I started with a rotary, then got my Porter Cable DA.

Once I got the hang of the DA, l rarely use the rotary.

As I only do my own car my needs are meager.
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Same here.

I started with rotary, but always wanted something a little less "intense". The PC was a godsend in that regard.
 
IMO the "hybrid" of both worlds (the DA and rotary) is the Flex 3401. That is the only forced rotational DA that I know of (unless Flex comes out with their new model). I have the PC7424XP and I still use it and love it. But for bigger tasks and faster corrections I use the Flex 3401. It is my go to DA. IMO this is the best of both worlds. I would look into that if you are looking.
 
Kamakaz1961 said:
IMO the "hybrid" of both worlds (the DA and rotary) is the Flex 3401. That is the only forced rotational DA that I know of (unless Flex comes out with their new model). I have the PC7424XP and I still use it and love it. But for bigger tasks and faster corrections I use the Flex 3401. It is my go to DA. IMO this is the best of both worlds. I would look into that if you are looking.
Click to expand...


:iagree: The Flex 3401 is a great tool, & perhaps an option to think about. I believe Makita make a hybrid style machine that can be free spinning or forced rotation & the little I have heard in terms of feedback, it seems like a nice tool too. As far as what you're doing, if you do a lot of heavy or moderately heavy correction work, then I personally would stick to the rotary, simply because of the speed in which you can correct but also - the Flex 3401 can come in handy here too - it can demolish defects pretty quickly & with the standards of quality compounds these days, it'll finish down LSP ready most of the time also.

This is not to say, count out the other DAs be it a Rupes, Griots or even the new Flex long throw machine, they are all capable tools.

Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:
 
Great Post!!! I'm 28, but like you I also started with a rotary (Dewalt 849x) and for the first two years I was working exclusively on repainted classic cars. Actually, I had a pneumatic DA but only ever used it for sanding. It wasn't until I started reading the forums that I bought a PC7424xp and later a gg6. Since then I've also purchased a Rupes MKII which while I do enjoy using on trailers, rv's, and boats, when it comes to vehicles I just really prefer the precision and speed of the rotary followed with a 8mm throw DA (especially the GG6).

I've also tried the Flex 3401 and hated it. I didn't like that I couldn't blow my pads out with compressed air, but most of all I personally couldn't adjust to the counter clockwise rotation. As much as I wish I could tell you that you were really missing out. I really think that cutting with rotary paired with either lambswool or foamed wool and keeping your RPM's between 600-1200 it is the safest method of correcting. Plus with the current advancements in pads and abrasive technology it's possible to correct and finish to perfection with even a DA as under powered as the PC 7424xp
 
UTdetailing said:
Anyone have any thoughts on this?


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I do, how many cars are you doing that need "major correction"? I'm not a pro detailer but i would think most cars are in decent condition at least and just need some gloss enhancement or swirls taken out at the most? da's gotta be better for that?
 
Aaryn NZ said:
:iagree: The Flex 3401 is a great tool, & perhaps an option to think about. I believe Makita make a hybrid style machine that can be free spinning or forced rotation & the little I have heard in terms of feedback, it seems like a nice tool too. As far as what you're doing, if you do a lot of heavy or moderately heavy correction work, then I personally would stick to the rotary, simply because of the speed in which you can correct but also - the Flex 3401 can come in handy here too - it can demolish defects pretty quickly & with the standards of quality compounds these days, it'll finish down LSP ready most of the time also.

This is not to say, count out the other DAs be it a Rupes, Griots or even the new Flex long throw machine, they are all capable tools.

Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:
Click to expand...

i just started using the flex. i can now appreciate what mike says about using it to "power through a finish"
 
Thank you all....... good stuff from all of you!

I really like the thought of finishing a compound down lsp ready. I consider myself pretty competent with a rotary (though I suspect many of you could rotary circles around me), but have never been able to get a compound to finish to a point I could put a sealant/wax on top of it. However with the modern AIO's, if I did start doing this for a living again, unless someone was paying for a coating I don't know if I would ever 3 step again. At most 2 step.
 
UTdetailing said:
Thank you all....... good stuff from all of you!

I really like the thought of finishing a compound down lsp ready. I consider myself pretty competent with a rotary (though I suspect many of you could rotary circles around me), but have never been able to get a compound to finish to a point I could put a sealant/wax on top of it. However with the modern AIO's, if I did start doing this for a living again, unless someone was paying for a coating I don't know if I would ever 3 step again. At most 2 step.
Click to expand...

I consider myself pretty handy with a rotary but I cannot think of a time since the mid/late 90's, when I was finishing with a pneumatic Dynabrade DA sander, where I would even bother trying to finish polishing LSP ready with a rotary. On paintwork that needs heavy correction, IMO a rotary simply gets it done faster than anything else. Your system already sounds good, & I'm guessing it works well. A long throw DA or the Flex 3401 are great tools & alot of the time (depending on paint condition) they are quicker because of how well they finish down with a compound.

Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:
 
So, would it make sense for me as I get more business and go more towards full time for others to add on to my machine collection currently a GG6 up to also a rotary (doing that at least) a 3401 forced DA, and a 21mm throw DA zentool or rupes type? Will i just know based on degree or time crunch which to use? Any tips on that if you had all those when you'd use them all and if it would make sense or if I'd really just need a good mini DA, 6" short throw, 6" long throw, and rotary? Or not even a short and long together unless the short GG6 is for interiors and stuff with a brush attachment? Help me think haha


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
 
Crispy said:
I am of the same opinion "find something you like and use it often".

If it works for you stick with it.

However it is always possible to "miss the boat" , but a forced rotation is moving closer to a rotary and the traditional DA is the opposite end of the spectrum.

I started with a rotary, then got my Porter Cable DA.

Once I got the hang of the DA, l rarely use the rotary.

As I only do my own car my needs are meager.
Click to expand...

Actually, since the forced rotation of the flex is fixed, it maxes out at only 480rpm. Free spinning DA's can out rotate that with ease except on tight curved areas.
 
The Zentool DA? Don't buy that. That thing is TERRIBLE. I'd rather use a Porter Cable.

Honestly, you're better off getting a set of long throw DAs (3 inch and 5 inch) or maybe a 3 inch long throw DA and the 3401, but not a 3401 and a large long throw DA. Learn and master making the most out of one or the other.
The 3401 has almost zero learning curve and can cut like crazy with things like foamed wool and the Tuff Buff pads, but it beats the crap of of you.
The long throw DAs have a larger learning curve but are much smooth and cut about the same as the 3401 with the right combo of pads.
 
conman1395 said:
The Zentool DA? Don't buy that. That thing is TERRIBLE. I'd rather use a Porter Cable.

Honestly, you're better off getting a set of long throw DAs (3 inch and 5 inch) or maybe a 3 inch long throw DA and the 3401, but not a 3401 and a large long throw DA. Learn and master making the most out of one or the other.
The 3401 has almost zero learning curve and can cut like crazy with things like foamed wool and the Tuff Buff pads, but it beats the crap of of you.
The long throw DAs have a larger learning curve but are much smooth and cut about the same as the 3401 with the right combo of pads.
Click to expand...

Decisions decisions. So definitely spring for rupes then... well my next step is a rotary and then mini 3" GG3 and then rupes 21 I'd say. That's a while out haha
 
I have owned a Zentool Mini copy for over 2 years. Nothing wrong with it at all. Works same as my Rupes Mini. Backing plate and power cord are lower quality, but other than that, its hard to tell the difference. I used that $100 I save on pads instead. You also have the Griots GG15 and GG21 to choose from for long throw DA's

If I have to hit something with a long throw DA and MF cutting pads more than once to remove the defects I usually just get out the rotary and do it once with purple foam wool. Much quicker.

I also own the Makita BO4060 that is switchable between force rotation and free spinning. It is a beast of machine. I think it rotates the opposite way the Flex does. You can only use 6.5 pads wit it though. Lately I have only used it with AIO to try to get the most out of it. Usually on minivan type stuff and use Menz 3-n-1 with MF pads.

You get more of a work out fighting the walking motion of the Flex 3401 than holding a heavy rotary (Makita 9227c) in my opinion. It has been years since I have use a rotary to finish out with. I try my best to burnish/jewel the paint with the DA's.
 
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