DA Polishers

Correction. What I meant to say is obviously he taped vertical for side by side comparison, but he didn't tape off the other edges...on a Porsche! Right off the panel onto the light and back again. The top tape I'm guessing is to protect the rubber trim.

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To me taping the lights isn't really necessary because sometimes I buff the lights too depending on the car.
Correction. What I meant to say is obviously he taped vertical for side by side comparison, but he didn't tape off the other edges...on a Porsche! Right off the panel onto the light and back again. The top tape I'm guessing is to protect the rubber trim.

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Cardaddy... Or any of you other guys

Could you give me an example of pads needed and type of pads going into a detail of...

1. Wash/dry/clay - obviously none needed there
2. Removing swirls/light to medium compound (how do you decide there)
3. Paint cleaner/polish/AIO?
4. Then a topping of carnauba

With follow-ups there after simply being steps 1 and 4.

All of the detailing I have ever done I simply used applicators and MF's by hand. Using a DA now and with all these different options of materials and colors. In as simple terms as possible for the above example would be great. (I feel like a kid in school again, except I enjoy this learning process)

In advance thank you. I appreciate the feedback. There is no other "car guys" site like this for detailing. Its just awesome the wealth of knowledge available here by you guys and of course Mike himself. AG is a company that cares no doubt.

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So you've got a good grasp on #1, 2 bucket method, blow dry with your leaf blower. Clay using ONR as a clay lube then you can wipe with ONR and MF before moving to step #2.

Step #2 depends on how bad the swirls are and how much correction you are wanting to do. Plus whether or not you want to do a 2-step correction process, 1 step, or something in between like say a 1.5. ;)

The only real way you decide is with the "test spot". Don't go into it deciding you need to compound and use a lot of cut when you may not need it. I had a job with a guy earlier this year, he told me "Use the most cut you can, and do it as fast as you can." and left it at that. He wanted the MF pads, D300 but didn't want to clean them correctly. When I brought it up he said switch to whatever else I had and use maximum cut. Now that worked as far as getting rid of the swirls and RIDS but left the paint full of haze an micro-marring. Overall the compounding then first step of polishing looked great, considering where it started. (Take a look at the Lady in Red thread showcasing the new Black Label coating at how swirled that paint was. This was like that only black.)
No big deal though with the hazing as it was early in a total paint correction running $1995 that can take 30 or 40 hours. (Problem is he wanted to do it in 20 and charge for 40 I guess.) :dunno: All I know is he got really angry with me because it wasn't LSP ready after 9 hours I put in it. :rolleyes:

Any-who.... The first step you get into will revolve around what products you're going to use.

Let's just say for the point of argument that it's average paint (like not soft black) and better than average condition *AND* can be corrected with only a medium cut product. My first reach would be for Megs 205 or Megs Ultimate Polish. Both are from the same family with UP being built from 205 except it has a longer working time.

I like the current line of Megs because they are SMAT and I know they'll cut the same from start to finish. Let's also say we're working with Lake Country pads for arguments sake. I'd do a test spot with a white pad and 205 right next to a test spot with an orange pad and 205. Prime your pads the same, don't use the same pad for both areas. Spread your product on speed 2.5 or so really quickly. Then turn it up to 4.5 or so and do 3 section passes. Wipe the product away while it's still wet, turning your towel often.

Check the area for progress. Then put 3 more drops of product on each pad and do 2 more section passes. Wipe the area down again. Now is when you'll really be able to tell what is going on.

If the white pad gets rid of your swirls then THAT is the one you want. No need to use the other (orange) one unless the lesser pad just isn't getting the job done.

If you use UP (which has just a bit less cut) you may indeed use the orange pad because it does have more cut than the white pad which would offset the lack of as much cut in the 'UP' polish.

If neither does the job it may be because the paint is hard, or your swirls are too bad for them to do as thorough of a job as you need. That is when you step up to Megs UC. I wouldn't recommend 105 as it is a TOTAL pita to work with. You might like 101 but it's expensive and honestly UC and a good pad will cut most swirls pretty darned good. ;)

If you are working with Menz FG400 it'll provide great cut for the first two section passes then it'll drop off fairly quickly. I'd do 4 section passes with it on an orange pad and do a panel wipe (with a clean MF towel), spritz the pad with ONE VERY LIGHT MIST of distilled water and turn the speed up about half a notch and do two more passes.

With Menz being DAT and breaking down it finishes out better than Megs that doesn't break down. I've seen cars done from start to finish with nothing more than Menz SI-1500. Typically you can step up your pad one notch as YES it will cut more right away, but it'll drop off fairly fast and end up finishing down well.

When you do something in between a full 2 step, 2 product (compound and polish) that is what I refer to as the 1.5 (or even a 2.5). It's possible to use say a polish, but with two different pads. One for more cut, the other for less, or even NO added cut from the pad.

So then that gets you to step #3. Polishing. Again, depending on whether or not you actually needed a true 'compound' that will direct you to how heavy/or light of a polish you use. Just remember, use ONLY AS MUCH CUT AS YOU NEED. No need to over do it when a little I all it takes.

Maybe you did 4 passes with a light compound/heavy polish and a cutting pad. Then decided to do 3 more with the same stuff and a light cutting pad. Then you break out a light polish and a pad with light cut or no cut at all. Not hard to break that down to a 3 step, even a 3.5~4.0 step process. ;) FWIW I consider each different pad, no matter what the product on that pad to be another "step" in the process.

Now finally at #4.
If it's ME, and time for the LSP then you need to think about what is the most durable product you can use at this point of the process. I will NEVER do all that work to top it with carnauba. No freaking WAY! Just no durability at all there. I'll put a sealant on every time, every single time. Unless of course someone is paying for a "coating", that someone can be ME, but I'll do a sealant before a coating hands down. Which sealant? Probably Megs M21 2.0 WOWO type sealant, or maybe Wolfgang DGPS or BF Crystal Seal both WOWA sealants. I've used the WOWO versions (sample bottles) of both Wolfgang and Blackfire as well and like them both. Just have too much of the Megs M21 sitting around here to buy yet more bottles of that type of sealant. That being said; I also have two full bottles of DGPS and Crystal Seal and use them whenever I can.

Lets add step #5 here.
THIS is where you'd add the carnauba process. :props: After letting the sealant 'cure' overnight you can top it with a whole host of other LSP toppings. I've used Megs Ultimate Liquid Wax for instance to great success. I also use quite often Megs #26 Yellow Wax (liquid or paste doesn't matter, I have both but I like liquid better). The reflectivity, depth, and image from #26 is outstanding! One of the highest D.O.I. (Distinction Of Image) indexes in the business.

And of course you have plenty of others to add here. One favorite is Collinite 845 Insulator Wax, which IMHO doesn't have a right to be as good as it is for as easy as it is to work with, especially for what it costs. :) Collinite 476 I've read nothing but good things about, (not tried it) and of course 915 is absolutely the "Marque D’Elegance". Some of the DoDo Juice's I've tried, can take um' or leave um'. A bit gimmicky to me. :dunno:

Bottom line is carnauba will last about 2~3 weeks. It'll look good, but just doesn't last which is why you put it on last, and on top of whatever sealant (or coating) you have.


One more thing; COATINGS
This isn't a new subject, and there have been a number of excellent ones for several years now. Lately the DP coating has hit the ground running and should be a direct competitor, albeit at a much improved price point. And of course as of this week there is a new sheriff in town, and his name is 850 Black Label. Providing a long lasting ceramic glass / quartz coating at a price point that SHOULD have the others seriously rethinking their business plan(s). :rolleyes::cry:Being able to cover 5, 6, 10 or 15 vehicles with a single bottle from either of the last two at a price the 'old timers' charge for a single vehicle should get their attention. Jus' sayin'.....
 
Excellent. I'm purchasing the Griots

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For the pads I'm now researching to decide between quantity vs price vs quality.

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And ya know I thought about what you said with doing all that work and then a final step of carnauba without a coating applied before the wax just doesn't make sense. Now after applying a coating and then just topping off with some wax after regular washea ...that sounds a lot better

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Very good write up Tony, it will be helpful for many who takes the time to read your post:dblthumb2:



So you've got a good grasp on #1, 2 bucket method, blow dry with your leaf blower. Clay using ONR as a clay lube then you can wipe with ONR and MF before moving to step #2.

Step #2 depends on how bad the swirls are and how much correction you are wanting to do. Plus whether or not you want to do a 2-step correction process, 1 step, or something in between like say a 1.5. ;)

The only real way you decide is with the "test spot". Don't go into it deciding you need to compound and use a lot of cut when you may not need it. I had a job with a guy earlier this year, he told me "Use the most cut you can, and do it as fast as you can." and left it at that. He wanted the MF pads, D300 but didn't want to clean them correctly. When I brought it up he said switch to whatever else I had and use maximum cut. Now that worked as far as getting rid of the swirls and RIDS but left the paint full of haze an micro-marring. Overall the compounding then first step of polishing looked great, considering where it started. (Take a look at the Lady in Red thread showcasing the new Black Label coating at how swirled that paint was. This was like that only black.)
No big deal though with the hazing as it was early in a total paint correction running $1995 that can take 30 or 40 hours. (Problem is he wanted to do it in 20 and charge for 40 I guess.) :dunno: All I know is he got really angry with me because it wasn't LSP ready after 9 hours I put in it. :rolleyes:

Any-who.... The first step you get into will revolve around what products you're going to use.

Let's just say for the point of argument that it's average paint (like not soft black) and better than average condition *AND* can be corrected with only a medium cut product. My first reach would be for Megs 205 or Megs Ultimate Polish. Both are from the same family with UP being built from 205 except it has a longer working time.

I like the current line of Megs because they are SMAT and I know they'll cut the same from start to finish. Let's also say we're working with Lake Country pads for arguments sake. I'd do a test spot with a white pad and 205 right next to a test spot with an orange pad and 205. Prime your pads the same, don't use the same pad for both areas. Spread your product on speed 2.5 or so really quickly. Then turn it up to 4.5 or so and do 3 section passes. Wipe the product away while it's still wet, turning your towel often.

Check the area for progress. Then put 3 more drops of product on each pad and do 2 more section passes. Wipe the area down again. Now is when you'll really be able to tell what is going on.

If the white pad gets rid of your swirls then THAT is the one you want. No need to use the other (orange) one unless the lesser pad just isn't getting the job done.

If you use UP (which has just a bit less cut) you may indeed use the orange pad because it does have more cut than the white pad which would offset the lack of as much cut in the 'UP' polish.

If neither does the job it may be because the paint is hard, or your swirls are too bad for them to do as thorough of a job as you need. That is when you step up to Megs UC. I wouldn't recommend 105 as it is a TOTAL pita to work with. You might like 101 but it's expensive and honestly UC and a good pad will cut most swirls pretty darned good. ;)

If you are working with Menz FG400 it'll provide great cut for the first two section passes then it'll drop off fairly quickly. I'd do 4 section passes with it on an orange pad and do a panel wipe (with a clean MF towel), spritz the pad with ONE VERY LIGHT MIST of distilled water and turn the speed up about half a notch and do two more passes.

With Menz being DAT and breaking down it finishes out better than Megs that doesn't break down. I've seen cars done from start to finish with nothing more than Menz SI-1500. Typically you can step up your pad one notch as YES it will cut more right away, but it'll drop off fairly fast and end up finishing down well.

When you do something in between a full 2 step, 2 product (compound and polish) that is what I refer to as the 1.5 (or even a 2.5). It's possible to use say a polish, but with two different pads. One for more cut, the other for less, or even NO added cut from the pad.

So then that gets you to step #3. Polishing. Again, depending on whether or not you actually needed a true 'compound' that will direct you to how heavy/or light of a polish you use. Just remember, use ONLY AS MUCH CUT AS YOU NEED. No need to over do it when a little I all it takes.

Maybe you did 4 passes with a light compound/heavy polish and a cutting pad. Then decided to do 3 more with the same stuff and a light cutting pad. Then you break out a light polish and a pad with light cut or no cut at all. Not hard to break that down to a 3 step, even a 3.5~4.0 step process. ;) FWIW I consider each different pad, no matter what the product on that pad to be another "step" in the process.

Now finally at #4.
If it's ME, and time for the LSP then you need to think about what is the most durable product you can use at this point of the process. I will NEVER do all that work to top it with carnauba. No freaking WAY! Just no durability at all there. I'll put a sealant on every time, every single time. Unless of course someone is paying for a "coating", that someone can be ME, but I'll do a sealant before a coating hands down. Which sealant? Probably Megs M21 2.0 WOWO type sealant, or maybe Wolfgang DGPS or BF Crystal Seal both WOWA sealants. I've used the WOWO versions (sample bottles) of both Wolfgang and Blackfire as well and like them both. Just have too much of the Megs M21 sitting around here to buy yet more bottles of that type of sealant. That being said; I also have two full bottles of DGPS and Crystal Seal and use them whenever I can.

Lets add step #5 here.
THIS is where you'd add the carnauba process. :props: After letting the sealant 'cure' overnight you can top it with a whole host of other LSP toppings. I've used Megs Ultimate Liquid Wax for instance to great success. I also use quite often Megs #26 Yellow Wax (liquid or paste doesn't matter, I have both but I like liquid better). The reflectivity, depth, and image from #26 is outstanding! One of the highest D.O.I. (Distinction Of Image) indexes in the business.

And of course you have plenty of others to add here. One favorite is Collinite 845 Insulator Wax, which IMHO doesn't have a right to be as good as it is for as easy as it is to work with, especially for what it costs. :) Collinite 476 I've read nothing but good things about, (not tried it) and of course 915 is absolutely the "Marque D’Elegance". Some of the DoDo Juice's I've tried, can take um' or leave um'. A bit gimmicky to me. :dunno:

Bottom line is carnauba will last about 2~3 weeks. It'll look good, but just doesn't last which is why you put it on last, and on top of whatever sealant (or coating) you have.


One more thing; COATINGS
This isn't a new subject, and there have been a number of excellent ones for several years now. Lately the DP coating has hit the ground running and should be a direct competitor, albeit at a much improved price point. And of course as of this week there is a new sheriff in town, and his name is 850 Black Label. Providing a long lasting ceramic glass / quartz coating at a price point that SHOULD have the others seriously rethinking their business plan(s). :rolleyes::cry:Being able to cover 5, 6, 10 or 15 vehicles with a single bottle from either of the last two at a price the 'old timers' charge for a single vehicle should get their attention. Jus' sayin'.....
 
And ya know I thought about what you said with doing all that work and then a final step of carnauba without a coating applied before the wax just doesn't make sense. Now after applying a coating and then just topping off with some wax after regular washea ...that sounds a lot better

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And now we're cooking with peanut oil. :laughing: :dblthumb2:

Very good write up Tony, it will be helpful for many who takes the time to read your post:dblthumb2:

And that being the 'operative' phrase. ;) :rolleyes: ;) Obviously I've had too much time on my hands lately. :eek: (Been fighting a really bad progression of a slipped (actually a degenerating) disc for a solid week now.) :o:cry::o
 
Bummer to hear about the back. Try to stay Happy, Happy, Happy

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Bummer to hear about the back.
Try to stay Happy, Happy, Happy

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Yeah that's me... Happy, Happy, Happy. :xyxthumbs:
(Just won't find me sitting on 1600 acres around about West Monroe, LA.) :laughing:
 
Is west monroe LA, like North Hollywood LA at night time. :laughing:

Yeah, except West Monroe has lots of ducks flying overhead. Well that and whole clan full of scraggly long hair long bushy bearded fella's. :D

If you look really hard you can find the whole place on Google Earth. ;)

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Definitely want a good sealant then to clean off all that geese sh*t. Haha

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I'm three hours from you, I've been in your area a few times.
If ever you guys meet please let me know:dblthumb2:




Yeah, except West Monroe has lots of ducks flying overhead. Well that and whole clan full of scraggly long hair long bushy bearded fella's. :D

If you look really hard you can find the whole place on Google Earth. ;)

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With regard to your pad search I would recommend going with either Lake Country Flat Pads or Lake Country HydroTech pads.

I have used the LC CCS pads and I did not like them. They take a lot more product than the flat faced pads (because of the CCS pockets), plus I just didn't like how they felt. From what I've read, the CCS really comes into its own using a rotary buffer.

I have not used the flat pads but I have used the Hydro-Tech pads and like them a lot. There are only three colors (cyan, tangerine, and crimson) so you won't find yourself reaching for the orange, then white, then black, then blue or red. You know cyan for cutting, tangerine for polishing, and crimson for finishing. I know durability has been questioned with this line so that would be worth looking into further if you are planning on doing a lot of work. Still, on soft black paint, from experience (the dreaded soft, Porsche black paint) I know it is hard to beat the LC HT Crimson pad and Menzerna SF4500 (PO85RD).
 
I've never tried a flat pad, now I use the CG's hex pads with good results but I read so many good reviews using the flat pads.
Thinking of buying a set soon
 
FWIW, [I've read] that the CCS pads have been recommended to use with SMAT products. This allows the CCS pad to release more product as you continue to polish. Whereas, many people seem to prefer the flat pads with DAT products, which break down while you use them; the flat pad allows full contact as the DAT product breaks down and finishes.
 
I'm three hours from you, I've been in your area a few times.
If ever you guys meet please let me know:dblthumb2:

Oh nooooo, I'm not in West Monroe, we were just funnin' 'bout those Duck Commander fella's. :dblthumb2:

Seriously though, the whole Robertson property is actually on Google Earth these days. I didn't believe it but my kid told me about it and I couldn't resist. Whew, 1600 acres is a ton-o-land that just happens to be smack in the middle of the biggest duck flyway in the south. :eek: (And one heckava' killer place to ride 4 wheelers!) :)
538 Mouth of Cypress Rd, West Monroe, LA 71292, USA
 
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