Dealing with "hack" detailers

tuscarora dave said:
At Detail Fest a few weeks ago, I was talking to the guys over at the 3D HD products booth when we were approached by this guy with long greasy blonde hair and a yellow, white and blue horizontally striped wife beater and some worn out brown Dickies work pants. He was quite hairy, sweaty and heavyset. I don't mean to judge but I had visions of this guy walking onto the set of an episode of "All in the family".



I try not to be judgmental but to be quite honest my interest was piqued as to what this fellow might have to say, so I stuck around to observe and listen as the HD guys were demonstrating HD Cut on a black demo hood. This fellow was quite jovial as he blurted out to the nice man doing the rotary, foam pad and HD Cut demonstration. He very loudly said, "You're doing it wrong!!!, You need a wool pad to cut those sanding marks!!"



I got a little chuckle out of the fact that this guy was schooling the 3D HD guys as they were buffing out the 3000 grit sanding marks I had just watched them instill into the black paint a few minutes before.



At this point, I hadn't introduced myself as someone who knows a thing or two about detailing. (I actually never did) As I watched this fellow trying to critique the work of the 3D guys he blurted again... "I wheel paint every day at the body shop, and you need some heavy duty compound for your initial cut!!" In the same breath, he went on to tell us how much splatter he gets all over his belly as he "wheels the paint" at the body shop he works at, and that "Presta Super Cut" is the best product on the market.



He then bellowed, "Man, that Presta Super Cut is some real gritty compound, it works great!!!" By this time I could tell the nice fellow working the 3D booth was becoming slightly agitated with this caveman type of body shop paint wheeler. The 3D guy never lost his composure though, but rather snickered just a little as he untwisted the lid from the bottle of HD Cut and handed it to the guy. He said "here, feel how gritty this HD Cut is."



I laughed out loud and actually had to turn in the other direction as this jovial fellow rubbed the HD Cut between his thumb and forefinger. He had the most confused look I've ever seen :confused: on his face as he very loudly said "This is a finishing polish!!!"



Bearing witness to this single interaction in the vendors tent was completely worth the air fare to get myself to Detail Fest, I shall never forget it.
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Lol.

The Caveman.
 
Lol at some of the stuff in this thread. I wasn't expecting it to get so much attention. I wrote it out of frustration as I laid on my couch after the event.
 
Bill1234 said:
Glad you mentioned people like this. I HATE people that do this. They make up some excuse and try and make it look like its the industry standard. For example, using armor all is the best thing ever or you will take off your finish by waxing...
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+1 LMBO :iagree:
 
My favorite is when people say that you need "heat" to correct paint. As if you are melting away the clear coat or "re-flowing" the paint. If that were true then every car would correct itself by sitting in the sun. Trying to explain that abrasives are removing a small layer of paint to level the surface surrounding each defect is like trying to teach a 5 year old quantum physics.
 
Try explaining away the fact that:
Kinetic-friction-induced heat...can cause a temperature
rise: in; around; and of: a vehicle's surfaces.

Voila!! Paint's been "corrected"! (?)


Bob
 
I surround my self with good people and great detailers. I never even think twice about hacks their a dime a dozen. They will not be in business for very long.
 
Calendyr said:
You should be happy. If your competition doesn't know what they are doing, that is more potential clients for you. It's sad to say because we all love cars and want to see them being well taken care of, but as a business person, if you are much better than your competition, it's a big plus.
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So true!
 
RyanPaul said:
Hi everyone just wanted to write a post about my experience at my first autoshow as not just a spectator but a detailer. I did 2 Landrover Defenders for some gentleman that are in the show, and have been working side by side other detailers. However, I have seen some stuff and heard some stuff that really made me want to throw myself into a bus.

Just some random incidents that stick out in my mind:

1.) Most detailers believe a 2 bucket wash is the worst way to wash a car

2.) Most detailers don't actually know how to use a polisher and hand polish everything

3.) (this one was the best and really made my head spin) At the chemical guys booth, they had a demo hood where they were allowing people to use a DA with their polish to polish the hood. Anyways, this old gentleman probably 65 was using it. He was holding the DA with so much pressure that it wasn't actually spinning it was just vibrating. I went up to him and said "excuse me sir, you see the pad is not spinning because you're using too much pressure and that is preventing it from "cutting" and removing the swirls. He stops and gives me this condescending smile and says "I know I am doing this to generate more heat". I had to grab onto the booth itself because I just about fell over. He then complains how he doesn't like DA's ect ect.

4.) Another detailer saw me air drying my vehicles after 2 bucket washing them, and said that was one of the dumbest things he's seen and that I have to dry using microfibers.

Anyways this was just my experience at my first autoshow being a detailer with my own business; where I realized there really are many "experts" that have no idea what they're talking about. All I replied with was "okay" for the most part when they would critique my work. How do you guys deal with hack jobs?
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I keep reading this, thinking I should really not be surprised yet I still think to myself 'wow, just wow' lol
 
The story about heating up the paint through friction came up, I believe, when hard single staged paints were really common. In those old days, a 8" double sided wool pad, a rotary running 2000 rpm and some harsh compound bought by the bucket were the standard procedure. They believed that heating up the paint would induce the small cracks to melt a bit and thus becoming more uniform. So these people are stuck with this mindset, and little they know that modern cars are two staged paint, with a clearcoat thin as a sheet of paper. And the clearcoat is becoming thinner and thinner, especially in cheap cars, I don't know if it is economy of material, or robot spraying at the factory or both.
Therefore, unless these folks are humble to re-learn, it is pointless to show them, because old habits die hard.
It is difficult to change paradigmatic behaviors ;)
 
When I was first "playing with paint," I mentioned the 'heat factor' to the body man who was teaching me.

His reply was simple, "I'd like to get my hands on the fool that started that rumor!"

This was back in the late 50's and single stage paint...guess old thoughts and ways are hard to dismiss, even after MANY years.

Bill
 
Well I'm a old fat gray haired detailer that gets a lot of young guys telling me I'm too old to know about modern paints and products. My usual offer while in front of their peers is , you polish a test area and compare it to mine. Loser pays for a detail. I look at these incidents as a opportunity to educate .
 
About a year ago, a guy I went to high school with started a detailing business, asked everyone to like and share his page, so I did.

then I began to look at it and found out quickly that he was quite ill prepared for this endeavor. His business page outlined his detailing process but all that it was were copy and pasted chemical guys product names and descriptions, (many of which were redundant steps and misleading marketing). He also had a "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back!" in big bold font.

so I messaged him and gave him a few pointers and told him that someone would screw him over with that guarantee and I told him to look into other products and check out AGO.

about a month later I see him put up a pic of a yellow CG hex pad that is all black on the face. He had detailed his girlfriends car and captioned the pic with something like, "Look at all the dirt coming out of the paint even after a thorough wash and full decontamination" the car was a civic (maybe a year or two old).

I commented on the pic explaining that Honda as well as other auto companies are using single stage paints for solid colors such as white, red, and black and that it was most likely paint on the pad not embedded dirt in the paint and if he planned on charging people money for this type of work he should take the time to learn about paint systems in common use. he deleted the pic within 5 mins.
 
OMG this thread is making my head spin!

BTW- I'm so pissed I couldn't go this year to Detail Fest... damn work!

Try to let it go RyanPaul... people can be ignorant.

Hell, I don't get taken serious just for the shear fact I'm a woman. My coworker once told me "You're not a detailer, you just wash cars".

Let them keep their techniques... then you can swoop in a clean up their messes.
 
cplchris said:
...

I commented on the pic explaining that Honda as well as other auto companies are using single stage paints for solid colors such as white, red, and black and that it was most likely paint on the pad not embedded dirt in the paint and if he planned on charging people money for this type of work he should take the time to learn about paint systems in common use...
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Chris,

I'm fairly new to all of this, and only do it for myself - I'd never dream of charging anyone, and would defer them to a pro if anyone asked me to. But more than once I've wondered how a lay person can go about learning this type of info - who uses single stage and when, who tends to use hard clears vs. soft, etc., etc. Any suggestions?
 
KSMike said:
Chris,

I'm fairly new to all of this, and only do it for myself - I'd never dream of charging anyone, and would defer them to a pro if anyone asked me to. But more than once I've wondered how a lay person can go about learning this type of info - who uses single stage and when, who tends to use hard clears vs. soft, etc., etc. Any suggestions?
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Keep reading AGO and you'll learn things you never knew, you never knew. :props:
 
I am willing to teach people how to do work, just as if a contractor is teaching his trade to a home owner. However, when you dont know anything and then try to make up something because you saw it on tv or you label it as the right way to do things, that is when I get very mad. People I know that I have done some side jobs for were really just family and close friends. They really like the work I do, because I take my time. However, these people here seem like they want to force something at others and claim its the best thing on earth. It really ruins our image as then everybody thinks it works too and it gets annoying
 
Maybe it should be "making money off hack detailers"
 
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