Decent 'Final Glaze' ?

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TonyBHPD

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Well, I'll cut to the chase:

After washing/claying/washing again, here's my BASIC 'battle plan' when approaching exterior work

- Meguiars 105 compounding (if necessary) with the orange LC CCS pad (yellow if it's bad, followed again by orange) (For VERY LIGHT work/new car prep for my wholesale accounts, I'll replace the 105 with the Ultimate Compound as, to me at least, it's better for 'spot compounding' before polishing)

- Meguiars 205 with the green LC CCS pad

- Wash again

- 3M Final Glaze

- Klasse High Gloss Sealant

- Pinnacle XMT 180 paste wax (two coats)

So far all of my customers have been very satisfied with the results this produces, however I know 3M discontinued the Final Glaze a while ago (I happened to buy up all the bulk gallons from a local paint supplier, however I'm running low). I ALWAYS glaze after polishing/before sealing as I feel it adds depth to the finish and does fill in any slight imperfections that are either missed or happen at some point between the polishing/third wash phase. What would be a good alternative in place of the 3M? I have some 3M Ultrafina that accomplishes the same thing except it needs to be applied by machine as opposed to hand, which is rather messy and when I'm doing customer's vehicles, time is sometimes key and I can't really justify washing it AGAIN after applying the glaze (I don't even think the Ultrafina is a true 'glaze' as it's not a WOWO product).

So I just ordered up the Poorboy's Black Hole and Diamond glaze for dark and light cars respectively and I figured I'll give those a shot. Anyone have any other recommendations? I'd like something that can be applied by hand and isn't TOO dusty/messy to use.

Feed back please
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Ultrafina is not the samething as glaze, it is a polish.
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I'm aware of that, but in usage, I haven't really noticed it's 'polishing' characteristics very much...to me at least, it seems like it's almost all filler.

Case in point: Took a damaged black CLS hood at the shop from the scrap pile, compounded with the rotary using the 3M Compound, followed it with the gray 3M machine polish and intentionally made sure to leave some holograms behind to test the effectiveness of the Ultrafina (3M rep pitched it as a "Will permanently remove any existing swirl marks/compounding swirls/holograms). Hit it with the Ultrafina/blue pad on the rotary, and it looked flawless.

Then I went and got some purple degreaser and sprayed the hood down, let it sit for a few seconds, and washed it off with the high pressure hose, and sure as can be, the holograms/compounding swirls were back.

So yeah, I do know that it's not technically a glaze, but from my little experiment, it seems to have more glazing/filling characteristics then it does polishing characteristics, but I definitely do see what you're saying.
 
If you need to go too a yellow pad you may want to skip the yellow and orange foam and go with wool to remove the heavy swirls.Why not go 105 orange pad the 205 white pad if needed follow up with UF on a blue pad and call it a day.If you do that you won't need to carry so many glazes.Now if you skip a step and still have swirls then glaze i just don't see if you spend that much time with 105/205 you won't need glaze.PB black hole is great but doesn't last for shows or selling a car perfect then just skip all the hard work and one step and PB.Also wondering why two coats of XMT not accomplishing anything layering XMT180.
 
It's obvious you are not working your middle step properly and not working the Ultrafina correctly either. Plus the 3M middle polish fills like crazy. Ultrafina is used to take out very faint holograms and when used correctly it will permanently remove any holograms. Getting a better middle polish and working it correctly will fix the problem you had.
 
Harleyguy said:
If you need to go too a yellow pad you may want to skip the yellow and orange foam and go with wool to remove the heavy swirls.Why not go 105 orange pad the 205 white pad if needed follow up with UF on a blue pad and call it a day.If you do that you won't need to carry so many glazes.Now if you skip a step and still have swirls then glaze i just don't see if you spend that much time with 105/205 you won't need glaze.PB black hole is great but doesn't last for shows or selling a car perfect then just skip all the hard work and one step and PB.Also wondering why two coats of XMT not accomplishing anything layering XMT180.
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Occasionally I will skip the compounding with the DA and go right to the wool/rotary/105 on really bad finishes...like I said, what I outlined above was my basic game plan for standard details.

As for carrying many different glazes/compounds/polishes...I really don't carry that much. I have my 105/205/Final Glaze/Klasse/XMT180 that I use for regular customers, plus I like to carry the Ultimate Compound for spot-compounding with my micro-buffer (comes in handy for bumpers and whatnot). I also keep the Ultrafina on hand because it does come in handy when I'm doing dealer wholesale cars, but I've found that you gotta seal it in for it to REALLY last.

As far as my stance on a 'final glaze'...I don't think it's necessary, but I don't mind the extra step and in my personal opinion, it really makes dark metallic finishes stand out.

As for your recommendation on the 105/orange, 205/white, Ultrafina/blue before sealing/waxing...I'll have to give that a shot! It sounds like it has potential to produce an awesome finish, but I haven't actually tried that yet...how well does the white pad work with the 205? I know the green pad has a little more cutting ability then the white, hence my choice in using it for the polishing step...but I see what you're saying about using a less aggressive pad with the 205 and eliminating the need to use an actual glaze. I got a black BMW 3 series I'm doing on Saturday...I'll try that approach on the hood first and see how it works. I imagine I'd have to seal the Ultrafina with my Klasse just like you'd have to seal a glaze, since it's heavy in fillers, correct?

As for layering the XMT180...I know it doesn't make it any more durable/long lasting, but to my eyes at least, two coats seems to have a bit more shine/depth then one, but I could be wrong. Then again, my customers haven't complained, and as we all know, from a customer's viewpoint, detailing is all about the final product.

Thanks for the info, tips, and suggestions!
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
It's obvious you are not working your middle step properly and not working the Ultrafina correctly either. Plus the 3M middle polish fills like crazy. Ultrafina is used to take out very faint holograms and when used correctly it will permanently remove any holograms. Getting a better middle polish and working it correctly will fix the problem you had.
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That's why I stopped using the 3M for my detailing and went the M105/205 line...didn't like the 3M since it's almost all filler.

Like I said, in my practical day-to-day applications, I have no real issues with swirls/holograms with the details I do. After the compounding/polishing, the finish is practically flawless. I guess I just like the glaze for the little bit of extra 'pop' it gives the finish. I'm not using the glaze to 'hide' anything, except maybe a DEEP scratch here or there if the customer doesn't want to pay to have the scratch removed.

Bottom line: Do I really need a glaze, or is that 'extra color pop/depth' just all in my head?

And the Poorboy's Blackhole...if I were to seal that in, I'd imagine the glaze would last longer, correct?

On a side note: Upon detailing cars for the Body Shop after the buffer works the freshly painted panels, I guess all the fillers in the 3M Machine Polish would explain how after I wash a car before I start detailing it, that I'll find dull compounding spots that weren't present before the wash, right?
 
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TonyBHPD said:
Occasionally I will skip the compounding with the DA and go right to the wool/rotary/105 on really bad finishes...like I said, what I outlined above was my basic game plan for standard details.

As for carrying many different glazes/compounds/polishes...I really don't carry that much. I have my 105/205/Final Glaze/Klasse/XMT180 that I use for regular customers, plus I like to carry the Ultimate Compound for spot-compounding with my micro-buffer (comes in handy for bumpers and whatnot). I also keep the Ultrafina on hand because it does come in handy when I'm doing dealer wholesale cars, but I've found that you gotta seal it in for it to REALLY last.

As far as my stance on a 'final glaze'...I don't think it's necessary, but I don't mind the extra step and in my personal opinion, it really makes dark metallic finishes stand out.

As for your recommendation on the 105/orange, 205/white, Ultrafina/blue before sealing/waxing...I'll have to give that a shot! It sounds like it has potential to produce an awesome finish, but I haven't actually tried that yet...how well does the white pad work with the 205? I know the green pad has a little more cutting ability then the white, hence my choice in using it for the polishing step...but I see what you're saying about using a less aggressive pad with the 205 and eliminating the need to use an actual glaze. I got a black BMW 3 series I'm doing on Saturday...I'll try that approach on the hood first and see how it works. I imagine I'd have to seal the Ultrafina with my Klasse just like you'd have to seal a glaze, since it's heavy in fillers, correct?

As for layering the XMT180...I know it doesn't make it any more durable/long lasting, but to my eyes at least, two coats seems to have a bit more shine/depth then one, but I could be wrong. Then again, my customers haven't complained, and as we all know, from a customer's viewpoint, detailing is all about the final product.

Thanks for the info, tips, and suggestions!
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Now you have a better game plan.Pick up some PB natty blue and red great product cost wise perfect and i think you will be happier with the results.The white pad is awesome and if you are in the market for some new pads try the Kompressor pads the white one is awesome.
 
TonyBHPD said:
That's why I stopped using the 3M for my detailing and went the M105/205 line...didn't like the 3M since it's almost all filler.

Like I said, in my practical day-to-day applications, I have no real issues with swirls/holograms with the details I do. After the compounding/polishing, the finish is practically flawless. I guess I just like the glaze for the little bit of extra 'pop' it gives the finish. I'm not using the glaze to 'hide' anything, except maybe a DEEP scratch here or there if the customer doesn't want to pay to have the scratch removed.

Bottom line: Do I really need a glaze, or is that 'extra color pop/depth' just all in my head?

And the Poorboy's Blackhole...if I were to seal that in, I'd imagine the glaze would last longer, correct?
Click to expand...

If the vehicle is polished correctly the glaze will not enhance the finish at all. The glaze is not going to last longer if it so called sealed in. Polishing a surface is permanent, glaze is just a temporary fix(band aid). Your lsp is only there to protect your finish, not enhance it.

I wouldn't say all the 3M stuff is all filler. Their extra-cut compound is awesome and Ultrafina is an awesome prodcut if you use it correctly. Just look at my show and shines, that is what I use for final polishing. Now the swirl remover I would agree it is just a filler in a bottle, just like glaze is.
 
Thanks Harleyguy! Asphalt Rocket, check your PM, I just sent you one.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
If the vehicle is polished correctly the glaze will not enhance the finish at all. The glaze is not going to last longer if it so called sealed in. Polishing a surface is permanent, glaze is just a temporary fix(band aid). Your lsp is only there to protect your finish, not enhance it.

I wouldn't say all the 3M stuff is all filler. Their extra-cut compound is awesome and Ultrafina is an awesome prodcut if you use it correctly. Just look at my show and shines, that is what I use for final polishing. Now the swirl remover I would agree it is just a filler in a bottle, just like glaze is.
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I can't get the Extra Cut through my local supplier anymore :mad: He told me it's discontinued, which sucks, because I'm in agreement with you on that. As for their regular Perfect-It Rubbing Compound...I can't stand it. It dries out/turns pasty way too quick as opposed to the M105, regardless of if I'm using a rotary or a DA.
 
What is the durability of your LSP combo because using something like an oil based glaze like the one your using doesnt leave a good clean surface KSG needs to bond too. You will need to look into acrylic based glazes like CG EZ creme and DWG if you're trying to follow up with a sealant of any kind.
 
Lasthope05 said:
What is the durability of your LSP combo because using something like an oil based glaze like the one your using doesnt leave a good clean surface KSG needs to bond too. You will need to look into acrylic based glazes like CG EZ creme and DWG if you're trying to follow up with a sealant of any kind.
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Now there's an issue I've never taken into account. So far everything's looked alright on the vehicles I've worked on (I see them regularly), however I think I'll just have to eliminate the glazes altogether until I do a little more research and 'testing' with various combos on my donor car behind the shop...black 2005 E350...front end is wiped out, but I got four doors, two quarters, a roof and a decklid to work with :pc7424:
 
Im sure you will like Blackhole, very good stuff and Im pretty sure its not an oil based glaze, should have no issues with KSG on it at all.. Very very similar to Chem Guys EZ Creme and Danase wet glaze. Rocket just get a little antsy when people mention glazes, kinda like a fart in church.
 
Bradshaw said:
Tell us about XMT 180, what do you like about it?
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The smell of 180 is awesome.
I have max wax and XMT 180. Max Wax is easier to apply & remove, deeper gloss and seems to last longer IMHO. Guess that's not what you ask but I felt the 180 was quite a bit more difficult to remove.....
 
When using the Poorboy Glazes cant you apply a sealant or wax on top of it to make it last a little longer?
 
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