Definitive 3D Towel Kleen instruction thread.....

Well,since I posted this a few things have changed! Our Samsung washer we had at the time of the original posting was a POS from the get go,and wound up being recalled. Matching drier was pretty crappy too. We took the money from the rebate and put it towards a new Maytag washer and drier.

The Maytag has an actual agitator,and we love it. Our laundry has not been this clean and soft in years including my microfibers.

Anyway,no issues with Towel Kleen in either HE machine we've owned. Actually I've used it in 3 different ones because I had the TK with the Kenmore that got replaced by the Samsung. Forgot to add that the Samsung lasted exactly one year.
 
I totally Love 3D TK! It does the job and at a Solid price.
I'm still surprised it doesn't have more reviews on Autogeek. I'd recommend it to anyone, and do.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Oh boy. At atmospheric pressure water can't get hotter than 212F, I would suspect even one of those washers with a heater in it probably doesn't get the water over 180...how hot does it get in your dryer?

You do know that some people boil their towels to restore them? The only negative effect that hot water has on MF towels is to sometimes make the dye run.
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That is false, wash an eagle edgeless in 180 degree water, My drier runs on extra low delicate. I have ruined towels in 130 plus degree water I have pictures that I dont feel like finding right now. C'est la vie, I'm not trying to change your mind anyway.
 
1EdgeKilla said:
Hate to break it to you but hot and/or boiling water is one of the best things for cleaning and rejuvenating Microfiber towels aside of any cleaning agents whatsoever. Typically you could get away with just boiling a towel as a means of cleaning it and not using any sort of cleaning agent. After all, the manufacturing of microfibers involves high heat and various chemicals to begin with.
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I wonder why every microfiber manufacturer I know recommends washing in warm or cold water. Never hot, Maybe you can get away with boiling cheap low nap microfiber thats 20% or less but try it with a real towel
 
This is the difference between a regular towel and a towel thats been washed in hot 140 degree water. Below that is a response from a major microfiber distributor

eagle.jpg



Hello ******!



Based off of your picture, I can tell you that those towels have seen too much heat. Microfiber is essentially really fine plastic. Anything above 140 degrees will cause the microfiber to melt and collapse on itself. We recommend washing ALL microfiber on cold or warm with a (Free and clear) liquid detergent, and then follow up with a air tumble dry or a hang dry. Those towels can still be used, but they will be less effective than a new towel that hasn’t seen high heat. Here is a video below for reference!
 
I'm sorry for your loss. I've never damaged any towels washing in hot water and high heat in the dryer...and I've been doing it for almost 15 years. You're free to wash as you please, as am I.
 
Towels are too expensive to take chances with. I wash on medium and dry on air fluff. No problems.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I'm sorry for your loss. I've never damaged any towels washing in hot water and high heat in the dryer...and I've been doing it for almost 15 years. You're free to wash as you please, as am I.
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That's fine you have never washed any eagles like that. I used to wash my towels in hot water when I started out. They don't get ruined but they aren't as good as new either. Its just a fact that hot water and high heat damages the towel. It doesn't make them unusable but it's not as good as it could be. You are free to wash your towels however you want for 100 years but you can't argue against a fact and you're not going to change the fact. I just showed you the proof.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
Towels are too expensive to take chances with. I wash on medium and dry on air fluff. No problems.
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Exactly why bother it's not like they get any cleaner. The chemicals in the detergent are what cleans the towel not the water. You can wash your towels in hot water until the cows come home it's not going to change the fact that its bad for the towel. Regardless of whether you say you notice it or not
 
fightnews said:
That's fine you have never washed any eagles like that. I used to wash my towels in hot water when I started out. They don't get ruined but they aren't as good as new either. Its just a fact that hot water and high heat damages the towel. It doesn't make them unusable but it's not as good as it could be. You are free to wash your towels however you want for 100 years but you can't argue against a fact and you're not going to change the fact. I just showed you the proof.
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But I have washed Eagles like that. But you're right, I'm not going to change the fact that doesn't happen to my towels when I wash/dry them on hot. What is the quality of your water? Do you have a gas or electric dryer? What temperature is your water heater set at? I'm still using the microfiber towels I first bought in 2004 and none of them are any worse for the wear, except the 50 cent Walmart ones that are throwaways anyway, that get a little curled at the edges.

I would be very surprised if you are getting 140 degree water at your washer, even if your water heater is set that high. How far away is the washer from the water heater? Is the piping insulated?

rlmccarty2000 said:
Towels are too expensive to take chances with. I wash on medium and dry on air fluff. No problems.
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It's all good...but many soils become easier to remove at elevated temperatures. If we're trying to remove waxes, sealants, and silicones from towels, hotter is going to be better.
 
fightnews said:
Exactly why bother it's not like they get any cleaner. The chemicals in the detergent are what cleans the towel not the water.
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That's simply not an accurate statement. Anyone who's had a chemistry class knows that solubility is affected by temperature.
 
If you want to get "technical" what you want to be looking at is the Vicat Softening Point of the materials used in microfiber towels (quoted from Wikipedia since I can't get the link to work):

"Vicat softening temperature or Vicat hardness is the determination of the softening point for materials that have no definite melting point, such as plastics. It is taken as the temperature at which the specimen is penetrated to a depth of 1 mm by a flat-ended needle with a 1 mm2 circular or square cross-section. For the Vicat A test, a load of 10 N is used. For the Vicat B test, the load is 50 N.

Standards to determine Vicat softening point include ASTM D 1525 and ISO 306, which are largely equivalent.[1] Property information for specific grades of resin are available in the Prospector Plastic Database. Property Search lets you search for plastics by more than 400 material properties. Vicat Softening Temperature - ISO 306

The vicat softening temperature can be used to compare the heat-characteristics of different materials."


Please note that the Vicat Softening Point is tested under load, which your towels won't be when they are being washed, at least not the kind of load in the Vicat test. The Vicat temp for polyester is a minimum of 235F, while for polyamide (Nylon 6) is 392F. There are many different polyamide grades, and I didn't check all of them, but it would seem the polyester would be the weak point of the towel from a thermal standpoint. Of course the actual melting temperatures are much higher. Very hard to understand what TRC is talking about with their 140F statements.

Polyester Typical Properties Generic PBT | UL Prospector

Polyamide (Nylon) Typical Properties Generic Nylon 6 - Talc | UL Prospector

GE says that their dryers, even if you have an old one, don't go over 145F, while newer ones (since 1994) not over 135. Not sure if that applies to electric, gas, or both, and presumably there could be a thermostat malfunction which could push the temperature higher: Explanation of Dryer Temperatures
 
I have a steam washer and do it on the hottest setting with steam, then dry on delicate which takes barely any time. The dryer will inflict much more damage on your towels on a hot cycle than your washer. Using hot water in my opinion is the only way to get the truly clean. Sometimes I add vinegar to the tub but usually only if it's a dirtier load.

I tried some of the microfiber washes and wasn't overly impressed, went back to tide unscented.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Setec Astronomy said:
If you want to get "technical" what you want to be looking at is the Vicat Softening Point of the materials used in microfiber towels (quoted from Wikipedia since I can't get the link to work):

"Vicat softening temperature or Vicat hardness is the determination of the softening point for materials that have no definite melting point, such as plastics. It is taken as the temperature at which the specimen is penetrated to a depth of 1 mm by a flat-ended needle with a 1 mm2 circular or square cross-section. For the Vicat A test, a load of 10 N is used. For the Vicat B test, the load is 50 N.

Standards to determine Vicat softening point include ASTM D 1525 and ISO 306, which are largely equivalent.[1] Property information for specific grades of resin are available in the Prospector Plastic Database. Property Search lets you search for plastics by more than 400 material properties. Vicat Softening Temperature - ISO 306

The vicat softening temperature can be used to compare the heat-characteristics of different materials."


Please note that the Vicat Softening Point is tested under load, which your towels won't be when they are being washed, at least not the kind of load in the Vicat test. The Vicat temp for polyester is a minimum of 235F, while for polyamide (Nylon 6) is 392F. There are many different polyamide grades, and I didn't check all of them, but it would seem the polyester would be the weak point of the towel from a thermal standpoint. Of course the actual melting temperatures are much higher. Very hard to understand what TRC is talking about with their 140F statements.

Polyester Typical Properties Generic PBT | UL Prospector

Polyamide (Nylon) Typical Properties Generic Nylon 6 - Talc | UL Prospector

GE says that their dryers, even if you have an old one, don't go over 145F, while newer ones (since 1994) not over 135. Not sure if that applies to electric, gas, or both, and presumably there could be a thermostat malfunction which could push the temperature higher: Explanation of Dryer Temperatures
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Agree. How do we get rid of all of the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) out there regarding MF and hot water? There is so much out there being stated as fact with ZERO substantiation. Almost becomes religious dogma where you're not going to change someone's mind regardless of how much scientific data you show. I know with great certainty that polyester and nylon have high tolerance to boiling water (212F/100C) and do most certainly tolerate coming in contact with black paint that is far hotter than 140F/60C. It is fable to state things so authoritatively.
 
Route246 said:
How do we get rid of all of the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) out there regarding MF and hot water?...It is fable to state things so authoritatively.
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You tell me, we are living in a post-fact, post-science world. I love that quote from the producers of Idiocracy "...we didn't realize at the time that we were making a documentary..."

It's really beyond me how TRC got onto this, and they recruited the OPT guys to spread the message. Maybe the TRC guys were told by their mfrs. not to get the towels hotter than 140...but that would have been °C, not °F, and they took it as °F. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me.
 
A picture of something isn't proof of anything that is being stated. That's not proof or a fact that water caused that damage. The fact is you have a picture of two things that are the same but look dissimilar. That proves you have two towels that used to be the same and aren't any longer and you have a working camera.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
You tell me, we are living in a post-fact, post-science world. I love that quote from the producers of Idiocracy "...we didn't realize at the time that we were making a documentary..."

It's really beyond me how TRC got onto this, and they recruited the OPT guys to spread the message. Maybe the TRC guys were told by their mfrs. not to get the towels hotter than 140...but that would have been °C, not °F, and they took it as °F. That's the only thing that makes any sense to me.
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That very well could explain the mythology. TRC manufacturing is done in China and Korea, both countries are on the metric and Celsius systems. It wouldn’t be the first time something got standardized due to a geographic misunderstanding. The BART trains in NorCal have a whacky gauge because they misunderstood the Shinkansen gauge in Japan.


Sent from my iPhone X using Tapatalk
 
My water heater is set to the industry-recommended temp of 120F, so it's probably only 115F or so by the time it gets to the washer (which is a relatively short piping run). Towels aside, I'd be more worried about a potential scalding incident in the household if your water heater is set to 140F or more. Just my $.02.
 
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