definitive answer on process for properly applying sealants for best bonding

I use Meguiar's 205 to remove my lsp and I don't do anything after that except apply my last step, no issues, I'm worried I could cause more defects if I do anything more that the 205.
DP Glossy Paint Sealant is self bonding so you may want to try it, good stuff.

I've never used a coating, if I were to I'd buy the DP Prep Polish because it's very important to make sure the finish is oil free , so I read.
 
thanks for the insight pip, it's pretty much just as i figured, i've had msds training and safety classes that go into depth into msds (actually they changed them to sds recentely, just safety data sheet, they dropped the material).

it was tough to even find some of the sheets on some products, which leads you to believe that companies will not only buy and sell a product they don't know much about, but they probably buy into the hype about it as well and then sell that hype on their own name. not to mention hiring a chemist to throw something together that looks good, smells good, and works good, but not truly knowing what it is and not getting the proper information together for the public.

i wouldn't say they are purely doing it on purpose, it is probably partly money, but it's also probably partly the fact that they know their product won't look that special on paper, hence why the post about the chemical guys not wanting to release their msds to the general public consumer came up.







now what i think we really need is someone to do some testing on whether or not it even matters to do a ton of prep before applying coatings and sealants. do some application and duration/durability testing and see how long they really do last without "proper application techniques".

would be good to know which sealants and coatings actually have the ability to dissolve the layer of oils or surfactants left on the paint, mix in, and push them to the top as they are laid down so they can bond to the paint.
 
TurboToys said:
chemical guys not wanting to release their msds to the general public consumer came up.
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Within the EU, it is obligatory to make the sheets available for anything which has a hazard symbol, whether that person is public or professional. Furthermore, it is obligatory to be able to provide sheets for any non-hazardous products, sold to a professional (not obligatory to supply them to the public). Pro's simply must demand these sheets because, if you haven't seen them, you cannot have done proper safety assessments. Try explaining that to the insurance company if something bad happens...

Safety information is there for the protection of those who will be using or exposed to the products. By failing to provide it, companies are not only breaching any number of regulations, they are putting your health at risk. Quite why people accept this practice is a total mystery to me!

So, if chemical guys have done this and you have proof of it, report them to your local regulatory body. They can force them to adhere and shut them down if they refuse.
 
I've contacted CGs about MSDSs before. They want a receipt to prove you bought it. Once receipt was provided - info for was sent.
 
swanicyouth said:
I've contacted CGs about MSDSs before. They want a receipt to prove you bought it. Once receipt was provided - info for was sent.
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Thats ridiculous, a receipt means nothing. You could print out a piece of paper saying you purchased it, but it should still be readily available no matter what, seems like a cheap way to get people to buy before they try
 
swanicyouth said:
I've contacted CGs about MSDSs before. They want a receipt to prove you bought it. Once receipt was provided - info for was sent.
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That is at least something. Unfortunately I am pretty sure it wouldn't fly if brought to the authorities in the EU. My recollection is that the wording refers to a 'user', there is nothing which forces that the user must have bought the product and nothing which forces that the user must be able to prove it.

Most companies get away with things because no one has taken them to task on them.
 
PiPUK said:
That is at least something. Unfortunately I am pretty sure it wouldn't fly if brought to the authorities in the EU. My recollection is that the wording refers to a 'user', there is nothing which forces that the user must have bought the product and nothing which forces that the user must be able to prove it.

Most companies get away with things because no one has taken them to task on them.
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pip, i appreciate someone else who knows how to look at an msds and determine how a product would and would not work based on what chemicals are present in it.

i'm thinking about making a combination spray that will actually do a good job at removing leftovers on paint while still being paint safe. but the problem still comes that to keep from getting scratches, you mostly always need a surfactant, or you need a special wax/sealant that has cleaning properties so that it cleans its surface before it lays down, and what you have left over on top gets buffed away.

2-2. Chemical description Chemical formula Con
tent CAS No. Remark
Isopropyl Alcohol < 30% 67-63-0
Dionized water > 60% 7732-18-5
Sodium lauryl ether sulfate 1%-3% 685-34-2
odor additive 1% proprietary
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carpro eraser ^

contains water and ipa... along with SLES

Sodium laureth sulfate, or sodium lauryl ether sulfate, is an anionic detergent and surfactant found in many personal care products. SLES is an inexpensive and very effective foaming agent
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you can't honestly tell me that you are putting a product on that removes oils, then leaves a film as well then say that it really did it's job can you? i'd believe that yes, it does remove oil buildup , but removing a polymer sealant or wax? doubtful based on ingrediants.

if it contained xylene/naptha instead of ipa, i'd be more apt to believing it.




carpro is more of less a glorified ipa, with stuff you do not want in an ipa cleaner.... scents and surfactants



panel wipe from gtechniq probably appeared more useful because it actually was. it is formulated like a lot of bodyshop wax and grease removers that have been in use for a long time. containing petrolium distillates.

ethanol, propon-2-ol , toulene (much like xylene).


i would say panel wipe is more apt to removing a lot of different things that the eraser just wouldn't touch (eraser is more likely to cover up i would say, than remove).

as far as panel wipe is concerned, you would have to really do some testing on different types of polymer sealants based on the type of polymer used, to see whether or not the combination of ingredients is right to dissolve the polymer you used. polymers are basically plastic from what i know, and ipa is not going to dissolve any plastic that i know of.

so far the only thing that looks like it will definitely remove a polymer sealant will be polishing, and then removing those polishing oils with anything you have with a 10-15% ipa mix, or something similar to a bodyshop safe solvent for paint cleaning, like panelwipe or common paint prep/paint cleaning chemicals
 
i'd like to ask why anyone has not tried any of the ppg DX line of cleaners?

a combination of DX394 and DX330 should suffice to do better than any of these overpriced cleaners like carpro eraser which are advertised as the best ever should do.

in fact dx394 is priced around 15/qt and is a combination of 5-10% IPA + 5-10% 2-butoxyethano (distillate with surfactant properties), and in combination with dx330 (naptha based with toulene, heptane, and methylcyclohexane). you should get better results than eraser or possibly even panel wipe. without the big price.
 
TurboToys said:
i'd like to ask why anyone has not tried any of the ppg DX line of cleaners?
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There are several "stripping-threads"...Wherein I have posted that I have used them as "panel wipes".

Good products! :props:

Bob
 
FUNX725 said:
There are several "stripping-threads"...Wherein I have posted that I have used them as "panel wipes".

Good products! :props:

Bob
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i haven't seen them while sifting through, do you have a link bob?
 
TurboToys,

I would suggest that Eraser should not be expected to remove anything beyond oils. It isn't a stripper at all and I wouldn't even consider it great on basic silicone oils. For the most part, however, it is those oils which are the problem so it does work OK. We have wipe type products much like it and we do not go the SLES route. Assuming the Eraser info is correct, the SLES level is almost APC like which does seem surprisingly high and there is almost no doubt that some of it will be left behind. The fragrance level is also massive, I'd never include that level of a fragrance in any product, much less one which is meant to leave no residue.

The reality, as you have said, remains that you need something to lubricate so that is why the SLES is in there. This is where you need a specialist to get to work ;)

Polymer sealants - IMO these just don't come off with any easy chemical means. If you read my various threads, you will see that I reckon that a well formulated sealant simply isn't worth tackling with anything short of an abrasive polish.
 
that is the conclusion i came to after a lot of reading pip. seems like i'll be using some of the dx330 i already have in my garage as a cleaner/stripper after doing compounding and such, no point in paying for a special product when this is the same thing really.


i just can't get past how many review videos i looked at for the hell of it, with people raving about carpro eraser like it was amazing. just goes to show how much marketing plays a role in the end users perception of how well the product works
 
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