This was my first time trying to do my own detailing. I decided to do it myself because I am very particular and the reviews I saw from the detailers were terrifying. So I thought I would take better care of my own.
I have a 2011 E350 - I read the article about Ceramiclear paint as it was recommended reading from some of the board members.
That would be my article warning people not to get very aggressive with Ceramiclear paints and to be on the look out when buffing out cars already detailed by someone that WAS NOT careful with the Ceramiclear paint.
For those reading this into the future, here's the link to this article.
Ceramiclear Paints - Be Careful
I watched most of the videos here and felt comfortable enough to try it until I did it today.
I purchased all of the equipment as recommended from different topics.
A Porter Cable 7424XP
Chemical Guys Orange, White and Black Foam Pads
I read the advice about getting the least aggressive so I purchased
Meguires Mirror Glaze M2 Fine Cut Cleaner
Meguires M2 Glaze Swirl Remover
Mothers Reflection Car Wax
What is the diameter and thickness of the CG pads? Here's the deal,
Thin is in...
Anytime you're using a Porter Cable or a tool that is a copy of the Porter Cable you really want to be using thin pads and small diameter pads. I cover this in my how-to book and multiple articles on this forum.
Thick, large pads rob the power coming out of these types of tools to the point where the tools cannot effectively maintain pad rotation especially as you work around the car and the pads become wet with products.
Wet pads rotate worse than dry pads. This is why you need more than ONE pad to buff out a car. In fact, more pads are better.
This is also why you need to mark the back of your backing plate somehow so your eyes can see if the pad is rotating or not.
Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation
The washing and the claying went just fine BUT when I did the polishing things must have gone wrong. My car now has more swirls and scratches then it had before after. So I am not sure what I did wrong and how I should fix it.
I watch all of the videos and read tons of articles to where I felt comfortable enough to go ahead and work on my car as I felt that it would be pretty safe.
Did I maybe polish to long or use too much polish? I used 3 dime size drops as it was on the videos (at the very first it splattered everywhere even though I didn't turn the Polisher on until the polisher was on the car.)
Needless to say I feel horrible right now. I could use any advice how to maybe fix this or what products to use so I can fix it.
From reading through your post, the problems could all be technique related....
The #2 Fine Cut Cleaner is a medium cut polish that can remove substantial swirls and scratches with a foam cutting pad and good technique.
The #9 Hi Tech Swirl Remover is a fine cut polish and can refine the finish left by the #2 to look look better before sealing with a wax.
That said, there are much better polishes for this type of work at least newer technology. If you're a Meguiar's guy the get the Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish.
Another product recommendation that works very well with the Ceramiclear paints would be the Wolfgang Uber Compound and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze. See this article,
The Wolfgang Four
Here are four products that will take care of about 99.9% of
any exterior paint correction product you'll ever have in your garage.
The Wolfgang Four
Forum member
RFulmer coined this term, (due credit where credit is due), and since there's been a lot of questions about what each product is, what they do, the order of aggressiveness and when you use one over the other, here's some info...
Uber Compound
- Aggressive Compound - More aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
- For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
- Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
- Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
- Cafe for all clear coat paints.
- Safe for all single stage paints.
- For some people on some cars it can be used as a compound/polish after which the paint can be sealed with a wax or synthetic paint sealant.
Total Swirl Remover
- Medium Cut Polish - Less aggressive than Uber Compound and more aggressive than Wolfgang Finishing Glaze.
- For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
- Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
- Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
- Cafe for all clear coat paints.
- Safe for all single stage paints.
- Should be tested before using Uber Compound to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.
Finishing Glaze
- Fine Cut Polish - Much less aggressive than Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and of course dramatically less aggressive than Wolfgang Uber Compound.
- For use with any type of polisher/buffer and can be used by hand.
- Body Shop Safe = Can be used in a fresh paint. environment (body shop) and can be used on fresh paint, (paint just sprayed and less than 30 days old).
- Safe for Ceramiclear paints.
- Cafe for all clear coat paints.
- Safe for all single stage paints.
- Should be tested before using Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover to see if it will remove defects to our satisfaction in keeping with the practice of using the least aggressive product to get the job done.
- Great "Maintenance Polish" for use removing shallow swirls that show up over time from normal wear-n-tear on daily drivers and after a person has already performed a multi-step procedure to remove serious paint defects.
Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0
- German engineered synthetic paint sealant.
- Non-cleaning, pure synthetic - Paint must be in excellent condition as in brand new or previously polished to like new condition before use.
- Can be applied by hand or any type of dual action polisher wit foam pads.
- This product "seals" the paint in the say way a car wax or paint coating will seal the paint. It is water insoluble and as such like all synthetic paint sealants, car waxes and paint coatings is not body shop safe.
- Requires 30 to 45 minutes of drying time before removal.
- Oxygen activated. After buffing off the excess sealant the remaining protection ingredients should be allowed to cure and fully set-up for an approximate 12 hour window of time before the vehicle is put back into service where it will be exposed to water.
Synergistic Chemical Compatibility
Each product is chemically compatible and chemically beneficial when used as a system approach to take a diamond in the rough and turn it into a glistening gemstone. Using the entire line in the correct order or just a few of the product in the correct order is an example of working forward in the paint polishing process.
All Inclusive System-Approach
This group of four products with just about any tool, any pad and even by hand will produce not only show car results but do it consistently across a
VERY wide spectrum of paint systems including,
- Hard paints, soft paints and everything in-between.
- Factory OEM paints and aftermarket repaints at your local body shop or custom paint shop.
- Single stage and basecoat clearcoat.
Which products do you need?
Which product you'll need depend upon the condition of the paint on the car. Click to my list of paint condition categories and read through the descriptions for the different categories. Then after washing and drying your car, inspect the paint both with your sense of touch, (The Baggie Test), and visually with your eyes in bright light for swirls and scratches.
Then determine which category your car's paint fall into. Here are some general guidelines but the best way to determine which exact product you'll need to remove the defects and restore the finish on your car to your expectations can only be determined by doing a Test Spot
How To Do a Test Spot
Test Spot results showing the before and after difference...
On Autogeek.net
Wolfgang Uber Compound 3.0
Total Swirl Remover
Finishing Glaze
Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0
I use 6 pea size of product when I am using a polisher and a cutting compound.
I always laugh when I see someone say they are using Pea Sized Drops.
I've been buffing out cars all my life and I never used peas sized drops. In most cases it's not enough product especially when buffing out 2' by 2' sections.
But that's also a mistake with the Porter Cable type tools. a 2' x 2' section is TOO LARGE.
I use speed setting 1 to spread the product on a 2'x2' area at a time.
Once I have spread it evenly I bump up the speed to 5 making three to four passes overlapping each pass 50/50.
2' x 2' area is too large.
Speed setting 5 on the PC is too slow ESPECIALLY if you're using thick, large pads. My guess is the pad was barely rotating and thus not doing anything to correct the paint.
3-4 passes for the damage you show in the picture is not enough. You need to do more like 6-8 with FIRM downward pressure like discussed in this recent thread.
Downward Pressure....What is "Moderate"?
I did prime the orange chemical guys hexlogic pad using Mike Phillips technique by spreading polisher like butter on the pad. I used the fine cut first.
That's actually the Kevin Brown Method of priming a pad. I like it and think it makes good sense and so I share it with everyone but I always give due credit where credit is due. I never steel or borrow other guys information or techniques and present them as my own as a part of being honest. I don't see this all the time on the part of other guys but I can't control what they do.
I just want to be sure that I follow on the right steps.
Read this carefully and look for mistakes you might be making. I always suggest to people to read this article FIRST and then you can avoid making the mistakes in the first place.
A few years ago after I wrote this someone suggested this be printed out and included with every dual action polisher sold. I agree. It would help to insure success by people new to machine polishing. That is if they read it.
DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
Tyler, age 15 removing swirls using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher
When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.
Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a
Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.
Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,
"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"
But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher
s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already
g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating
and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.
Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a
Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.
Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.
This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.
Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate
pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.
Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.
Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.
Pad Cleaning Articles
Why it's important to clean your pads often...
How to clean your foam pad on the fly
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