Detailers Domain - Uber
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loudog2
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- Aug 5, 2008
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loudog2
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Not all DA's. For the PC, true. They are fine for the flex.
agpatel
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- Apr 22, 2006
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True, it just skipped my mind when I was writing that.
agpatel
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- Apr 22, 2006
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For the normal PC they are just to big to get enough heat in it to break down the polish. The sweet spot is in the center and with a 6.5" pad is smaller than that of a 5.5" as you are rotating less weight around, thus you will get better performance and cutting ability out of a smaller pad than larger. It seems that 5.5" was about the max a org. PC could go to before decreasing performance.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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I agree that a small pad and a thinner pad will do more correction work when using a tool with a clutch like dual action polishers in all the different variations but at the same time I've done a ton of correction work using Meguiar's 6" pads for the last 15 plus years and also using air-powered DA Sanders with foam pads before the PC was introduced to the detailing world in the early 1990's.
I've also had the good fortune to conduct most of the Meguiar's classes teaching thousands of people how to use the PC for the last 7 years and again, while a smaller, thinner pad won't engage the clutch and stop the rotating action as easily as a larger and thicker pad, but with good technique the 6" pads will work to remove paint.
Pictures from Saturday Classes
Pictures from Thursday Night Classes
Pictures from Meguiar's RoadShow Detailing Classes
Pictures from Extreme Makeover
Pictures from our Advanced Classes
When we say we offer hands-on training, we mean hands-on training and that's what we're going to be starting here at Autogeek, both for the dual action polisher as well as all the power tools and also our advanced class on wet-sanding by hand and by machine.
This detailer flew to our class from Bogotá, Colombia to learn how to use the PC correctly.
Also there's more power available with the new generation dual action polisher, ie. the G100 and the new PC 7424XP so they will tend to rotate a 6" pad better than the original PC's
It also helps to have plenty of pads on hand and as your current pad starts to become wet or saturated with product, (liquid), the combination of wet foam will act to absorb and dissipate the power from the tool and you'll notice your pad will stop rotating as well. Simply switch to a clean, dry pad and you'll notice your pad will start rotating better again.
Paint is removed best when the pad is rotating over the surface, not merely vibrating or jiggling against it. So smaller pads, thinner pads and dry pads will tend to rotate better than larger, thick pads and especially after the larger, thicker pads start to become wet with product.
If I'm going to buff out a car and only use a PC style polisher I usually try to have on-hand around 9 or more polishing/cutting pads for the correction work. Anytime the pad starts to become wet with product and I notice the rotating ability start to decrease I'll simply switch to a clean, dry pad and this will fix the problem and enable me to continue removing defects efficiently.
This is an easy test to do for yourself also, just pay attention to the rotating action of the pad when using a PC style machine by marking the back of your pad or your backing plate with a permanent marker like this,
When you notice the pad isn't rotating as well as when you first started out simply switch to a dry pad and again, pay attention and you'll see the pad will rotate better/normally again.
The Porter Cable DA Polishers and the G100 and the UDM's all use a clutch that makes the tool safe to use because if you push down to hard the clutch will prevent the pad from spinning or rotating thus you won't burn the paint. This is the feature everyone loves about these tools when they first get into machine polishing because most people new to machine polishing are scared of burning through their paint or instilling swirls.
As they become more proficient with the tool and read more information on forums like this one then they learn the downside of the safety feature they love, (the clutch), become the feature they care less for because it limits how much pressure you can apply to the machine and still rotate the pad and thus how fast they can do the swirl removal step to the car.
At Meguiar's they call the swirl removal step the paint cleaning step, with the word cleaning meaning to remove defects out of the paint, (not washing the car), I wrote an article about this here,
The words Clean and Cleaning as defined by Meguiar's terminology
For the average person working on a neglected finish, if the goal is to remove as much of the swirls, scratches, etchings etc, out of the paint then the cleaning step is going to take anywhere from 4 to 6 hours because that's how long it's going to take to massage each square inch of each panel to remove the defects.
You have to move the polisher slowly so it can do some work, (work meaning remove some paint off the surface in order to level the surface flat), and all this time the pad needs to be rotating as paint is removed best when the pad is rotating against the paint, not merely vibrating or jiggling against it.
This then is the reason that after a person masters the PC style tools the next move up is to a tool like a rotary buffer or a tool like the FLEX XC 3401 dual action orbital polisher.
But yes, a tool with a clutch is more effective and thus faster at removing paint with a smaller diamter pad than the larger options on the market.
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agpatel
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- Apr 22, 2006
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Thanks Mike, that was some great info. I was just speaking for recent experiance, I use to only use 6.5" but someone said go down to a smaller pad and it will help you on the hard clear you have on your VW. I changed my pads to 5.5" and noticed a difference in time it took the break down he polish and correction level.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Just to note, heat is not a necessary component of the cleaning process when using any of Meguiar's compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes or cleaners/waxes.
Heat is merely an unavoidable by-product of the process.
I'll be working with with all the other products Autogeek offers as well as the manufactures of these products and will bring up this issue with them to see if there are any products where the manufacture does indeed state that heat is necessary to make their products work in the cleaning or defect removal step. Off-hand I'm not aware of any abrasive product where heat is a wanted or necessary component of the process.
This is a topic that has caused a lot of confusion over the years on discussion forums so in due time we will work through the confusion to make sure that accurate information on this topic is posted to our forum.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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agpatel
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- Apr 22, 2006
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Just to note, heat is not a necessary component of the cleaning process when using any of Meguiar's compounds, paint cleaners, cleaner/polishes or cleaners/waxes.
Heat is merely an unavoidable by-product of the process.
I'll be working with with all the other products Autogeek offers as well as the manufactures of these products and will bring up this issue with them to see if there are any products where the manufacture does indeed state that heat is necessary to make their products work in the cleaning or defect removal step. Off-hand I'm not aware of any abrasive product where heat is a wanted or necessary component of the process.
This is a topic that has caused a lot of confusion over the years on discussion forums so in due time we will work through the confusion to make sure that accurate information on this topic is posted to our forum.
Thanks Mike for correcting me. I was under the impression that the reason a rotary worked better than a DA was because of the sweet spot on the pads. The rotary had a larger sweet spot compared to a DA, and this created the "force" "sheearing" action for lack of better words that enabled the polishing abbreviates to do its work better and break down faster. Heat was the by product of this friction. If you take Menzerna polish that were created for rotary for example they will take longer to break down via DA because of the smaller sweet spot on the pad compared to the larger on a rotary. Now all of what I just said could be wrong but I will just hush now, haha.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to get clear coat paint hot, warm is okay but you should always be able to place your hand on the paint in the area you are buffing without your "Fight or Flight" instincts taking over causing you to quickly move your hand off the surface. In other words you should always be able to place the palm of your hand onto the paint and while it may be warm it shouldn't be so hot you want to jerk your hand away.
I know this subject of heat being necessary has been coming up for years and again, I've only spoken with the Meguiar's chemist and Mike Pennington on the topic as it relates to Meguiar's products and the answer was always neat is not necessary, pressure over time using an abrasive product with the right buffing pad was what removed paint and the result of applying pressure with an abrasive product over time to paint is both removed paint, (the goal), and heat, an unwanted byproduct of the process.
I can usually find replies I've typed on this subject by simply doing a search using the word by-product or byproduct depending upon how I typed it at the time.
I know this subject of heat being necessary has been coming up for years and again, I've only spoken with the Meguiar's chemist and Mike Pennington on the topic as it relates to Meguiar's products and the answer was always neat is not necessary, pressure over time using an abrasive product with the right buffing pad was what removed paint and the result of applying pressure with an abrasive product over time to paint is both removed paint, (the goal), and heat, an unwanted byproduct of the process.
I can usually find replies I've typed on this subject by simply doing a search using the word by-product or byproduct depending upon how I typed it at the time.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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We're always learning including myself. I try to learn new things everyday about the craft and share what I know.
rwisejr
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- Apr 17, 2007
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I have and have used them and they are really good pads . They pretty comparile to the LC flats .H system is nice since the pads are labled what they are for .Less confussing for a novice.