Did first buff for a dealer - any way to cut price down???
- Thread starter dnoraker
- Start date
AutowerxDetailing
New member
- Apr 10, 2012
- 2,791
- 0
I wonder about using D300 as a booster with D151? I've never tried the combo but D151 alone with a MF pad works pretty great as a one step process without needing an LSP.
Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online
Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online
215Detailing
New member
- May 19, 2011
- 1,063
- 0
Your Photos show that you did PAINT CORRECTION over a DETAIL your work says $100.00 or more easily. Most charge about $45.00 per hour for PAINT CORRECTION so you are pretty much on point see my 9:05 am post to day at link: https://www.facebook.com/#!/ThatsDetailing?fref=ts
DETAILING VS PAINT CORRECTION ARE TWO DIFFERENT BEAST
DETAILING VS PAINT CORRECTION ARE TWO DIFFERENT BEAST
Last edited:
215Detailing
New member
- May 19, 2011
- 1,063
- 0
:iagree: from the Original Poster Photos the 50/50 shots showed PAINT CORRECTION
and work was of QUALITY so he CHARGED CORRECTLY from my STAND POINT
Car Dealers SHOULD KNOW DIFFERANCE FROM DETAILING-VS-PAINT CORRECTION
And a DETAILER should explain the DIFFERANCES
215Detailing
New member
- May 19, 2011
- 1,063
- 0
:xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs::xyxthumbs:
D151 alone with a MF pad works pretty great as a one step process without needing an LSP.
dnoraker
New member
- Apr 19, 2010
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #27
I'll have to read that article later- thanks!
It seems people in my area charge $40-60/hr for buffing work if they're good. I typically charge $40 and stay about is busy as I want in the warm months, but next to nothing in the winter. I don't think people want to get their paint super shiny and new and coat it with salt and snow.
What the one brother/owner wants is to buff up the most swirled cars to help them sell. The other brother wants to keep the lights on and employees paid. It sounds like they're butting heads quite a bit. I don't think they're trying to take advantage of me, they're just trying to run a viable business. Their business model seems to be to just undercut the similar businesses on the strip and they do tend to sell a lot of cars. They just don't have the margin to be spending a ton on paint correction.
I believe that if they had me do a $100 job like this Saturn on most of their cars, they wouldn't need to undercut because they would have the nicest cars in town. I just hope that a customer comes in and sees the Saturn and says "holy cow- that thing shines like a new car! I'll take it!" And I get a call back thanking me, and get booked for the next job.
I'm not holding my breath, though. Mixing products might be a good idea to try. If I can get into a $60-70 buff job, I may try something like that. It would be nice if I had some cars to experiment on. Actually, the Explorer that I was supposed to pick up is black. I would be willing to throw tape lines all over it and use it as a test subject. :buffing: Maybe I could come up with a process that meets their needs and is still worth it to me.
Believe me- I've sold myself short before. I don't intend to work for $15/hr. I make a fair amount more in my other businesses per hour and typically am not willing to do much of anything for less than $30/hr at this point in my life unless I'm volunteering at church (drumming). whatever I come up with is going to be worth it to me AND the dealership. I was just looking for some possible solutions so I could make a little more over the winter to justify my insurance and to take care of my three kiddos. They eat a lot.
dnoraker
New member
- Apr 19, 2010
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #28
That's kind of what I was thinking. Though, I'm assuming that's with a DA? Does that have enough power? I've used it with a finishing pad on DA, which I know doesn't have much power but I didn't want to get micro-marring. I've also used it with the rotary and a green LC kompressor pad. That holograms black, though, which I'm not worried about when that's still way better than ultra hazed and scratched. Still, I don't think it's enough for the level of correction they're hoping for.
I'm thinking I'm going to offer them $60 for an AIO and $100 for what I did on the Saturn (D300/301).
Meticulous-Detail
New member
- Nov 15, 2011
- 1,905
- 0
+1
Nice work!
My suggestions: For 50 bucks I would wash, skip clay, and then use either Duragloss 501 to clean and polish as a 1 step or D151 if you need more cut. I love both these products for 1 steps.
I have used D151 with MF pads and foam with very nice results. You can't go wrong with these 2 products and a variety of pads.
dnoraker
New member
- Apr 19, 2010
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #30
I have a gallon of D151, so I need to use that first.
I almost wonder if it would be worth grabbing the next vehicle, which is a black Explorer, to do some product/pad testing and see what I can pull off. Maybe say I'll do it for $60 and tell them I want to see if I can get it to their liking with an AIO. It is crazy swirled and hazed, so an AIO might make enough of a difference where they feel it's worth it.
I'll have to get a feel for where they're at and if they felt like, after they all calmed down about it and thought rationally, they got more than $100 back in value for what I did on the Saturn. If that $100 package will always be a no-go, I can try for $80 and see if I can get the level of correction they want at that price with an AIO. Or, I cut my D300 time in half.
I would like to try on a vehicle to basically do two laps with D300 and see if that is enough to cut the swirls. One slow, heavier pass and one light cover pass. If I don't waste any motion on that or the D301, I maybe could make the same rate.
Again, I need a black vehicle....
AeroCleanse
New member
- Nov 17, 2008
- 2,422
- 0
Depends on what companies pads you use. I would suggest an orange hex logic pad. You could use a DA but it would take longer.
tuscarora dave
Active member
- Aug 21, 2009
- 5,408
- 12
Working for dealers like this always reminds me of Richard Marcinko’s 10 Commandments of Naval warfare.
Just for kicks and to make a good point (I think) I’ve made a little adaptation of them to use in the face of your current situation, followed by some of my own less than desirable but ultra-profitable methods I’ve come to when in the face of the same situation you’re currently facing. I’m offering this at the expense of possible public ridicule…but I simply no longer care about that.
-I am the War Lord and the wrathful God of Combat and I will always lead you from the front, not from the rear.
I am the master of the polisher in “my world” of auto appearance duties and I will always strive to make innovative decisions that make sense and make profit.
-I will treat you all alike-just like S.h.i.t.
These cars are all bottom priced auction junk and for the price should be treated accordingly, like junk.
-Thou shalt do nothing I will not do first, and thus will you be created Warriors in My deadly image.
I would not suggest these shady but profitable tactics having not first tried them myself, and thus will you profit if you follow suit.
-I shall punish thy bodies because the more thou sweatest in training, the less thou bleedest in combat.
There will be much repugnance and resistance when practicing these tactics, painful as they seem they shall meet thy ends rather than bleed thy profits.
-Indeed, if thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou suffer painful dings, then thou art Doing It Right.
Indeed if thou work swiftly and it pains you to practice such wretched tactics, then thou art doing it right.
-Thou hast not to like it-thou hast just to do it.
Decorous methods shall be abandoned through justifiable necessity, just do it.
-Thou shalt Keep It Simple, Stupid.
Thou shalt discard all unnecessary means to produce ends to such an unreasonable request.
-Thou shalt never assume.
Never discuss thy products or methods with thy financier lest he employ them himself.
-Verily, thou art not paid for thy methods, but for thy results, by which meaneth thou shalt kill thine enemy before he killeth you by any means available.
It doesn’t matter how you achieve the desired look, just that you do achieve the desired look. Whether by work reduction or trickery, make it cheap any way you can.
-Thou shalt, in thy Warrior's Mind and Soul, always remember My ultimate and final Commandment:There Are No Rules-Thou Shalt Win At All Cost.
There are no rules, as such I’d buy cheap wash concentrate in minimum 5 gallon ($35) quantities, gallons of Aquawax ($35), quarts of Mothers Professional Machine Glaze ($24), Flex 3401 ($329 paid back in time savings over a few jobs) and Harbor Freight ($4) foam pads.
Pressure wash loose dirt and grit off of the car, mix up 5 gallon wash bucket, use speedy prep towel as my wash media, run a very quick but sufficient pass with 3401 (quickly effective with no holograms) and Machine Glaze (chock full of fillers) and remove Machine Glaze with a light mist of Aquawax = Done
These cars are pretty hammered to begin with and for $50 to $70 a piece nobody cares about methods, just end results. It goes against everything we learn and preach here at AGO but in the world of bottom end (Hoop-D-Wagon)car sales where no budget is allowed, AGO methods have no place…period…
The above outlined process is cheap, fast, effective and leaves the vehicle lot worthy. Sure the fillers will wear off after the sale of the car, but the dealer doesn’t care and the new owner doesn’t know the difference between a swirl and a squirrel so it’s a non-issue.
The fact that the 3401 was used ensures that when the fillers do wear off, there will be no obnoxious rotary/wool trails revealing themselves, making you look bad in the eyes of nobody.
Just for kicks and to make a good point (I think) I’ve made a little adaptation of them to use in the face of your current situation, followed by some of my own less than desirable but ultra-profitable methods I’ve come to when in the face of the same situation you’re currently facing. I’m offering this at the expense of possible public ridicule…but I simply no longer care about that.
-I am the War Lord and the wrathful God of Combat and I will always lead you from the front, not from the rear.
I am the master of the polisher in “my world” of auto appearance duties and I will always strive to make innovative decisions that make sense and make profit.
-I will treat you all alike-just like S.h.i.t.
These cars are all bottom priced auction junk and for the price should be treated accordingly, like junk.
-Thou shalt do nothing I will not do first, and thus will you be created Warriors in My deadly image.
I would not suggest these shady but profitable tactics having not first tried them myself, and thus will you profit if you follow suit.
-I shall punish thy bodies because the more thou sweatest in training, the less thou bleedest in combat.
There will be much repugnance and resistance when practicing these tactics, painful as they seem they shall meet thy ends rather than bleed thy profits.
-Indeed, if thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou suffer painful dings, then thou art Doing It Right.
Indeed if thou work swiftly and it pains you to practice such wretched tactics, then thou art doing it right.
-Thou hast not to like it-thou hast just to do it.
Decorous methods shall be abandoned through justifiable necessity, just do it.
-Thou shalt Keep It Simple, Stupid.
Thou shalt discard all unnecessary means to produce ends to such an unreasonable request.
-Thou shalt never assume.
Never discuss thy products or methods with thy financier lest he employ them himself.
-Verily, thou art not paid for thy methods, but for thy results, by which meaneth thou shalt kill thine enemy before he killeth you by any means available.
It doesn’t matter how you achieve the desired look, just that you do achieve the desired look. Whether by work reduction or trickery, make it cheap any way you can.
-Thou shalt, in thy Warrior's Mind and Soul, always remember My ultimate and final Commandment:There Are No Rules-Thou Shalt Win At All Cost.
There are no rules, as such I’d buy cheap wash concentrate in minimum 5 gallon ($35) quantities, gallons of Aquawax ($35), quarts of Mothers Professional Machine Glaze ($24), Flex 3401 ($329 paid back in time savings over a few jobs) and Harbor Freight ($4) foam pads.
Pressure wash loose dirt and grit off of the car, mix up 5 gallon wash bucket, use speedy prep towel as my wash media, run a very quick but sufficient pass with 3401 (quickly effective with no holograms) and Machine Glaze (chock full of fillers) and remove Machine Glaze with a light mist of Aquawax = Done
These cars are pretty hammered to begin with and for $50 to $70 a piece nobody cares about methods, just end results. It goes against everything we learn and preach here at AGO but in the world of bottom end (Hoop-D-Wagon)car sales where no budget is allowed, AGO methods have no place…period…
The above outlined process is cheap, fast, effective and leaves the vehicle lot worthy. Sure the fillers will wear off after the sale of the car, but the dealer doesn’t care and the new owner doesn’t know the difference between a swirl and a squirrel so it’s a non-issue.
The fact that the 3401 was used ensures that when the fillers do wear off, there will be no obnoxious rotary/wool trails revealing themselves, making you look bad in the eyes of nobody.
That car came out great, I would not charge one of my customers less then $ 150 for work like that. dealers are cheap, they want free work. the value of the car will increase, and they will make that money back. We all agree here, no less than $ 100
Sent from my SPH-D700 using AG Online
Sent from my SPH-D700 using AG Online
Vegas Transplant
Active member
- Oct 11, 2011
- 4,447
- 3
:urtheman:
Perfections
New member
- Aug 17, 2010
- 1,257
- 0
Your over thinking this... 50 bucks. Onr wash, no clay. Prima banana gloss. Try it, they will be happy.
dnoraker
New member
- Apr 19, 2010
- 262
- 0
- Thread starter
- #39
Great advice everyone. A few thoughts:
- thanks for all the product/pad/machine suggestions. I haven't used any products with fillers (for obvious reasons), but that might be something that would be effective in this case. As long as it's something that would stay looking nice while it's on their lot, in case it's there for a couple months. That is my biggest concern
- From what I saw on their lot, most of them had decent bodies. Maybe a little better than "hoop-d-wagon". This Saturn had a cracked up nose, but once it was shined up it actually was, on the whole, a nice-looking car from 10 feet away and had a very clean interior that didn't smell old. I would put my family in it (if it were that small). They actually had an '05 Altima in dark gray that I was eyeing, after stupidly my '06 Altima last year, and the body was nice and straight on it and would look pretty smoking with a buff job. I saw plenty of cars that would legitimately earn them greater profits with a $100 buff job. too bad only one of the brothers sees it that way.
- I actually kind of like working on cheap cars over specialty, high-end, show cars. WHAT??? Yes. I just said that. Here's why- A lot of people who buy those cars, including some of my best friends, want something that runs decent and looks respectable while they are trying to save money and stay out of debt. Maybe they went through a job loss, foreclosure, other life-changing event, or just are sick of payments and at one time had a nice, clean, shiny, late-model vehicle and can't stand the thought of driving a 10-yr-old car that looks all hazy and swirled.
- I live in a lower-income part of the Minneapolis metro area and just don't see that much business, especially in the winter. The busiest place in town is the $4 car automatic brush car wash up the street (my son sayd "Dad- that's the place that scratches up the paint, right?") So, to make $25-30/hr after expenses as a hobby/supplemental business isn't a big deal to me. I'm not trying to build this to a full-time business. Besides, no one buffs their car here in the winter (as I'm watching the snow flying as I type). The car wash places shut down their detail shops. If I can get SOMETHING, that's a miracle.
- the next step is I offered to use a couple friends' cars as test subjects for some of these methods. One is black, another is dark red. I want to try some different pad, machine, and AIO combos to see what I can accomplish without sacrificing my detailing "morals". This way, I won't be giving away quality work to the dealer at a sacrificed price.
THANK YOU ALL!!! Great feedback. It's nice to think out loud and have a sounding board.
- thanks for all the product/pad/machine suggestions. I haven't used any products with fillers (for obvious reasons), but that might be something that would be effective in this case. As long as it's something that would stay looking nice while it's on their lot, in case it's there for a couple months. That is my biggest concern
- From what I saw on their lot, most of them had decent bodies. Maybe a little better than "hoop-d-wagon". This Saturn had a cracked up nose, but once it was shined up it actually was, on the whole, a nice-looking car from 10 feet away and had a very clean interior that didn't smell old. I would put my family in it (if it were that small). They actually had an '05 Altima in dark gray that I was eyeing, after stupidly my '06 Altima last year, and the body was nice and straight on it and would look pretty smoking with a buff job. I saw plenty of cars that would legitimately earn them greater profits with a $100 buff job. too bad only one of the brothers sees it that way.
- I actually kind of like working on cheap cars over specialty, high-end, show cars. WHAT??? Yes. I just said that. Here's why- A lot of people who buy those cars, including some of my best friends, want something that runs decent and looks respectable while they are trying to save money and stay out of debt. Maybe they went through a job loss, foreclosure, other life-changing event, or just are sick of payments and at one time had a nice, clean, shiny, late-model vehicle and can't stand the thought of driving a 10-yr-old car that looks all hazy and swirled.
- I live in a lower-income part of the Minneapolis metro area and just don't see that much business, especially in the winter. The busiest place in town is the $4 car automatic brush car wash up the street (my son sayd "Dad- that's the place that scratches up the paint, right?") So, to make $25-30/hr after expenses as a hobby/supplemental business isn't a big deal to me. I'm not trying to build this to a full-time business. Besides, no one buffs their car here in the winter (as I'm watching the snow flying as I type). The car wash places shut down their detail shops. If I can get SOMETHING, that's a miracle.
- the next step is I offered to use a couple friends' cars as test subjects for some of these methods. One is black, another is dark red. I want to try some different pad, machine, and AIO combos to see what I can accomplish without sacrificing my detailing "morals". This way, I won't be giving away quality work to the dealer at a sacrificed price.
THANK YOU ALL!!! Great feedback. It's nice to think out loud and have a sounding board.
MirandaAutoSpa
New member
- May 29, 2010
- 278
- 0
I agree!! Use your PCXP with either a white or green LC pad and D151, don't even bother with any other step after that. Or even use the Meg's MF cutting pad with D151, I have used that combo with success on many cars. It shouldnt take that long either, D151 is great for dealer work. I wouldn't risk leaving holograms on anything.