Did I shoot myself in the foot tonight?!?!?! Let go of an opportunity
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Matt
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- Aug 25, 2008
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I would agree with that. Maybe if you were feeding distilled/ filtered water into the pressure washer, so the guys didn't have to dry the cars, it would be possible to complete one car in 36 seconds, but otherwise, I'd agree with Dubbin and say not possible.
BorisC
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- Mar 30, 2011
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They may. And then dump you when they find someone cheaper.
But if the numbers work, I would do it for the steady income. If you find it's not worth it you can always stop.
I don't think you would need to be out there that early. I see people doing this at all times. It's not like the lots are packed w/ customers all the time. Just work around them.
And if the numbers work out like you figure, you could even sub the work out & still do ok.
master detailer
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- Nov 9, 2010
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if you where able to make money there he would have his own workers dont you think? for get about it
Bates Detailing
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I think they did use distilled water infact - let me find out again.....
Lets see - I have a detailing company and have helped and been helped many times on this forum with detailing questions - so, I wanted to ask my AG brothers their opinions on a situation that my detailing company has come across - something foreign to my company.
Thanx for everyone's input by the way!
This is what I saw last night on spraying down dealership cars :
I get 1.75 a car at three lots and 2.25 at one.
I rinse and 2 or 3 guys towel dry. No soap, just water.
Tuesday we did 167 cars in 2.5 hrs.
Hope this helps.
if you do it right!
For years I chaged .99 per car. No soap - just a high pressure rinse and the only time I would wash was after they closed at night.
You will be amazed at how many you can wash once you get your system down. 100 per hour easy and this is just one person.
The best day was always Thursday/Friday. This is when their ads break.
Good luck.
I would charge per car because they will never have the same amount of cars from one week to the next. Are you using DI water and how much is it costing you? Reason I ask is because this will have a substantial factor on what you need to charge.
For example: To go with DI tanks through company A is going to cost me $225 for the tanks. Their estimate, depending on how hard the water source is, is that I will filter 1500 gallons of water before my tanks are depleted. At that point I would need to have the tanks recharged for another $225. So how far does 1500 gallons of water get me? Well if I do each car in 45 seconds using a 4gpm machine, that's 3 gallons of water per car. So I would be able to do 500 cars before needing my tanks recharged. Do the math and your DI water is going to cost you 45 cents per car. I need to clear $2 per car to be profitable, otherwise it just isn't worth it. So I would probably charge $2.50 per car.
How long is it going to take to do 500 cars? Well here is my philosophy. I'm going to expose David V in this example since we are buds. David does cars much faster than me even though we both have 4gpm units. He doesn't use DI water but instead he uses 3 or so helpers. They go behind him and towel dry the cars by hand. Now because they are towel drying David can really blast through the cars knowing that his crew will wipe any missed spots. There is nothing wrong with this method because the end result to the customer is the same......a clean car. David's cost's are paying his helpers rather than paying for DI water. Now I use DI on a lot and I spend about 45 sec to a minute on each car. I have to hit them a little better because nobody is going behind me so if I miss something than the customer will complain. So it takes me 3 hours to do 150 cars this way. That's after doing them for a year now and finding ways to do it faster. It use to take me 4 hours so my best estimate is it would take you almost 10 hours once you got good, to do 500 cars. That's no soap, no reclaim, and you doing them by yourself using a 4gpm unit.
You'll have to keep to 45 seconds per car to keep your DI costs to $225 per visit (or 45cents per car). So after that cost your making $2.05 per car if you charge $2.50 per car. In 10 hours of work you'll be just over $100 per hour. Don't forget to figure in your cost for gas, insurance, wear and tear, and so on. Still decent money and consistent money every week but you just have to charge enough or you'll hate yourself in the long run. This is only an example but run your numbers like this and you'll know what you need to charge to be profitable, don't short change yourself.
XLNTShine
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- May 19, 2010
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I think what another poster was referring to is called opportunity cost.
"Opportunity cost is the cost of any activity measured in terms of the best alternative forgone. It is the sacrifice related to the second best choice available to someone who has picked among several mutually exclusive choices. It is a key concept in economics. It has been described as expressing "the basic relationship between scarcity and choice." The notion of opportunity cost plays a crucial part in ensuring that scarce resources are used efficiently. Thus, opportunity costs are not restricted to monetary or financial costs: the real cost of output forgone, lost time, pleasure or any other benefit that provides utility should also be considered opportunity costs."
I think others have said that we need to look at what we are giving up to service an account like this, and what the value of loosing the opportunity to do those other things are. Once you know what it cost to run your business you then add the value of the opportunity cost and see if it is profitable or not. A lot of times you may be surprised at the true cost of a job and it may be better to walk away from jobs/accounts when the profit is too low. (If you need to show cash flow jobs like this may be beneficial?)
I know a lot of the AG forum regulars are entrepreneurs, and many still use the cash system of accounting. One thing we all need to remember is that the cost of doing business is not just things like :
Labor
Detailing Consumables (Gloves, Towels, Chemicals...)
Insurance (Business, Vehicle, Others..)
Fuel
Quarterly Taxes
Many times we forget to think about other expenses we incur when operating a business. Thinks like :
Equipment Repairs (Both detailing machines as well as vehicles)
Equipment Rental (When we need something in a hurry!!)
.
.
.
Depreciation of Equipment
The depreciation of your equipment is something I never see discussed here or on other detailing forums. Every times we use a piece of equipment it looses value. We know what the value of this equipment is when we purchase it and we may expense that directly toward operating cost. I find it better to expense the purchase towards an assets account. Determine what service life you feel things like your tools, polishers, generators, canopy, truck, trailer, the list can go on.. divide your equipment cost over say 60 months. This will be your depreciation.
This does two things for us! It gives is a cost we must include when pricing our services, allowing us to truly know what the job cost to perform. Second it allows us to take that money we pay in depreciation and put that money in an account to replace items that fail. If an item fails before the 60 month(what ever you choose) life you do not remove the value of any remaining life, it has to stay on the books. We still need to pay for this expense, plus tack on the price of a new piece of equipment! You can see how this can grow if equipment is not maintained.
All your equipment repairs should be expensed to another account. Those you want to pay upfront. The only things we would add to the asset/depreciation expenses would be rebuild cost for engines, pumps, ect.
The reason I wrote all of the above is that I often see detailers thinking they are making good profits when in reality they are making a lot less then they think. They are looking at cash flow, not profit! I just encourage you to take a look at what it really cost you to run your business and make sure its worth your time to take on accounts like this.
"Opportunity cost is the cost of any activity measured in terms of the best alternative forgone. It is the sacrifice related to the second best choice available to someone who has picked among several mutually exclusive choices. It is a key concept in economics. It has been described as expressing "the basic relationship between scarcity and choice." The notion of opportunity cost plays a crucial part in ensuring that scarce resources are used efficiently. Thus, opportunity costs are not restricted to monetary or financial costs: the real cost of output forgone, lost time, pleasure or any other benefit that provides utility should also be considered opportunity costs."
I think others have said that we need to look at what we are giving up to service an account like this, and what the value of loosing the opportunity to do those other things are. Once you know what it cost to run your business you then add the value of the opportunity cost and see if it is profitable or not. A lot of times you may be surprised at the true cost of a job and it may be better to walk away from jobs/accounts when the profit is too low. (If you need to show cash flow jobs like this may be beneficial?)
I know a lot of the AG forum regulars are entrepreneurs, and many still use the cash system of accounting. One thing we all need to remember is that the cost of doing business is not just things like :
Labor
Detailing Consumables (Gloves, Towels, Chemicals...)
Insurance (Business, Vehicle, Others..)
Fuel
Quarterly Taxes
Many times we forget to think about other expenses we incur when operating a business. Thinks like :
Equipment Repairs (Both detailing machines as well as vehicles)
Equipment Rental (When we need something in a hurry!!)
.
.
.
Depreciation of Equipment
The depreciation of your equipment is something I never see discussed here or on other detailing forums. Every times we use a piece of equipment it looses value. We know what the value of this equipment is when we purchase it and we may expense that directly toward operating cost. I find it better to expense the purchase towards an assets account. Determine what service life you feel things like your tools, polishers, generators, canopy, truck, trailer, the list can go on.. divide your equipment cost over say 60 months. This will be your depreciation.
This does two things for us! It gives is a cost we must include when pricing our services, allowing us to truly know what the job cost to perform. Second it allows us to take that money we pay in depreciation and put that money in an account to replace items that fail. If an item fails before the 60 month(what ever you choose) life you do not remove the value of any remaining life, it has to stay on the books. We still need to pay for this expense, plus tack on the price of a new piece of equipment! You can see how this can grow if equipment is not maintained.
All your equipment repairs should be expensed to another account. Those you want to pay upfront. The only things we would add to the asset/depreciation expenses would be rebuild cost for engines, pumps, ect.
The reason I wrote all of the above is that I often see detailers thinking they are making good profits when in reality they are making a lot less then they think. They are looking at cash flow, not profit! I just encourage you to take a look at what it really cost you to run your business and make sure its worth your time to take on accounts like this.
Bates Detailing
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- Jan 11, 2011
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Good info here - Being an Accounting major for 2.5 years (stopped because of B & B's growth) I understand all of this and incorporate it into my numbers before taking a job - everything except the depreciation...... I never take into account depreciation. I normally think labor, product, gas, taxes, insurance, and my accountant. Thats about as far as I go without righting anything down.
I currently make roughly 30 to 50 an hr profit detailing - if I can make 75 to 100 rinsing off some cars then my opportunity cost is the latter :dblthumb2: (for myself anyhow).
I currently make roughly 30 to 50 an hr profit detailing - if I can make 75 to 100 rinsing off some cars then my opportunity cost is the latter :dblthumb2: (for myself anyhow).
XLNTShine
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- May 19, 2010
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Good deal.. I posted that not directly for you but as general info. I have quite a bit of experience in accounting, running a business as a GM, and now as a purchasing agent spending $100M a year for other people.
Depreciation is often overlooked, but it is a real cost of doing business.
B&B Tennessee--- It's good to see that if someone is willing to work hard they can still go out in America and make a living!! Best of luck to you! What ever decision you make will be the right one! If it works out it is a source of profit, if not it is an opportunity to learn how to do it better or find out its not something your interested in doing!
Please take no offense to this, I had someone whom I value there opinion greatly once tell me... "Son would you rather do a job 100 times to make $1000 or do the job 1 time for $1000?" and it stuck with me. I may be just a lazy couch potato.. but I am always looking for ways to bring value to what I do so I can be compensated for that value. There are times when I have chosen not to do business with people or vendors.
All that being said.. Would I take the job?? YES!:hungry: If I needed to generate cash to keep my business growing, paying bills, and salary to employees I would be all over it. Growing a business is tough work and I guess we all hope to get to the point where we can pick and choose jobs!
Do you know if he had someone else doing this for him? Can you find out why he is no longer providing the service? Might be something to take away from doing a little digging.
Good Luck!!
Depreciation is often overlooked, but it is a real cost of doing business.
B&B Tennessee--- It's good to see that if someone is willing to work hard they can still go out in America and make a living!! Best of luck to you! What ever decision you make will be the right one! If it works out it is a source of profit, if not it is an opportunity to learn how to do it better or find out its not something your interested in doing!
Please take no offense to this, I had someone whom I value there opinion greatly once tell me... "Son would you rather do a job 100 times to make $1000 or do the job 1 time for $1000?" and it stuck with me. I may be just a lazy couch potato.. but I am always looking for ways to bring value to what I do so I can be compensated for that value. There are times when I have chosen not to do business with people or vendors.
All that being said.. Would I take the job?? YES!:hungry: If I needed to generate cash to keep my business growing, paying bills, and salary to employees I would be all over it. Growing a business is tough work and I guess we all hope to get to the point where we can pick and choose jobs!
Do you know if he had someone else doing this for him? Can you find out why he is no longer providing the service? Might be something to take away from doing a little digging.
Good Luck!!
XLNTShine
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- May 19, 2010
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Question... is that after all of the above? If so that isn't bad at all. I may be in the wrong line of work.
kronos
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- Jul 7, 2009
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rops:
Flash Gordon
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Is there anyway I could persuade you to spend 1 mill with Autogeek pr yr :kiss: This would be great, as Max would send me a 3% vig fee of gross profits :coolgleam:
This would still leave you 99 mill to spend at your discrepancy :idea:
XLNTShine
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HA! I wish, I have only been able to find a way to buy a few hundred in items for work. They think the CAT equipment does not need to be detailed... can't seem to change their mind on that one. If I could, I would have to buy tire shine by the 55gal. drum. The tires are over 6' tall. Notice the pick in the background.
tcfatboys
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- May 30, 2011
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When you think a minute this / 5 minutes to do that. Forget about it. That's not the way when you are working. In a place like that.
I helped one day a friend that i hace from auto magic in carson. Ca
we started at 8pm. Wash & semi detail a nice 18 wheeler
by 10 pm from long beach. We went to l.a
since 10pm. We work until 2am in a wherehouse full of truck's
by 6:30 am / we had done 40 truck's some with the box / some just the body truck
one guy with the pressure washer / and his main helper & me with the truck brush and doing a lot of other things
forget about the time / that will dissapoint you.
Is either you want to move to this type of work pressure. Or if you want to stay in the work style you have already
i have work almost all the time alone. The difference is the a try to have as many working toy's as i can purchase
it's all about the hunger you might have to perform a job like this
I helped one day a friend that i hace from auto magic in carson. Ca
we started at 8pm. Wash & semi detail a nice 18 wheeler
by 10 pm from long beach. We went to l.a
since 10pm. We work until 2am in a wherehouse full of truck's
by 6:30 am / we had done 40 truck's some with the box / some just the body truck
one guy with the pressure washer / and his main helper & me with the truck brush and doing a lot of other things
forget about the time / that will dissapoint you.
Is either you want to move to this type of work pressure. Or if you want to stay in the work style you have already
i have work almost all the time alone. The difference is the a try to have as many working toy's as i can purchase
it's all about the hunger you might have to perform a job like this
tcfatboys
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- May 30, 2011
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I recently did a comercial cleaning for a tomatoe produce company. Here in baja.
The machine is worth $300000.00dls it's use to photo select the size of the tomatoes.
It has too many stuff that if it is wet / you burn the sensor's / camera's / computer part's / it is way to delicate
i have never clean one like this before. But i didn't say no. Or i can't
it took me three full day's. I have the pictures of the whole process. For me it gave me even more coinfidence in my work to see that i just did an expensive cleaning job / and that i did more than fine
this type of job's challenge you to see in what level you are
The machine is worth $300000.00dls it's use to photo select the size of the tomatoes.
It has too many stuff that if it is wet / you burn the sensor's / camera's / computer part's / it is way to delicate
i have never clean one like this before. But i didn't say no. Or i can't
it took me three full day's. I have the pictures of the whole process. For me it gave me even more coinfidence in my work to see that i just did an expensive cleaning job / and that i did more than fine
this type of job's challenge you to see in what level you are
Bates Detailing
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I make that for "working" hours...... Doesnt include the countless hours I am on the computer working on packages, numbers, website, other stuff though. I usually try to have a 10 hour day at least paid for (with jobs) for 2 of my full time guys before lunch.... then I take the afternoon jobs for "profit". Many times I will make more than enough in the morning then have a bus or RV + some Enterprise cars or offices - split my team up and all of it goes into the "profit" pile - thats how I try to run my days and it is working out great that way.
With that said - an account like this would apparently pay for 6 full time guys for the day before lunch - which would be pretty easy to get a couple of crews going those days - wala, growth!
Flash Gordon
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- Feb 6, 2010
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What did the dude say?!?!?!?
Flash Gordon
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HA! I wish, I have only been able to find a way to buy a few hundred in items for work. They think the CAT equipment does not need to be detailed... can't seem to change their mind on that one. If I could, I would have to buy tire shine by the 55gal. drum. The tires are over 6' tall. Notice the pick in the background.
Wonder if you could use a dry wash product on that?
maximus20895
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- Apr 13, 2010
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Or how big the drying towel would be?
Flash Gordon
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maximus20895
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