Does detailing suffer from the public underestimating how much work goes into it?

E

Ed Abbondanzio

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
0
Does detailing suffer from the public underestimating how much work goes into it?



Hey guys this has been on my mind a lot lately, even more so as business slows and I became a little more lax on the jobs I'll go after.

Is detailing one of those fields where people are more prone to underestimate the amount of work that goes into it, or is there just a percentage of the population that will always expect a lot of work for a little pay?

My rates are pretty low for my overhead ($35 - $50 /hr) and even then a good amount of people will think that's high. Last week after giving a price estimate over the phone some guy said "man, I'm in the wrong business" and all I wanted to say back was "nah you'd probably get tired of all the people thinking you'll work for less than minimum wage" (I didn't). Instead of starting an argument I'll deflect and play dumb asking if they want some time to think on it to give them a way out. But with winter approaching this conversation gets all too common.

What do you guys do? Should I start smoking my lunch to cope? Lol



:buffing:
 
IMO most people, average people, who aren't car people, just want a clean car. I have a basic polish and protect, just posted one in the Show and Shine Section, that is a quick 2-3 passes with a polish and of course something I can upgrade to a quick ceramic on as well. I do quite a few of them. People like this just don't want to spend a lot of money. My goal is normally $100/hr but this fall I've been knocking them out in the evenings and tossing in GYEON CanCoat for no charge. Normally I ask $95 for it as an upgrade but I bought some new toys and wanted to recoupe my spend quickly and it worked.

I don't mind sharing my pricing: The below is typically an AIO product but I offer upgrades too.

Small-Medium 2-4 Door Coupe/Sedan Civic, Accord, Cruz, Altima, A4, Fusion, WRX, Sonic $250
Larger 2-5 Door or Small Hatchback Charger, Avalon, A6, 535, SHO, Genesis, G8, E-Class, Camaro, Mustang, Volt, GTI, Vibe $275
Small SUV, 5 door Med Hatch/Wagon Escape, CR-V, Tesla S, Rogue, Forester, Edge, 2 row seating $295
Large SUV, Van Wagon, Hatchback Explorer, Pilot, Yukon, Wagons, Wrangler, 3 row seating $375
Extra Large SUV, Van, Full Size Truck Full size truck/van, Chevy Suburban, Toyota Sequoia $425
 
I only do my own vehicles, and I have always expressed how much respect I have for you guys who do it for a living.

After detailing my own truck I have had enough! There is nothing easy about doing the job right.



I would say that the people you are talking about Ed, are just ignorant to most things, especially how much works goes into a real detail job.

They probably think "Hey, I can run my car through a tunnel wash for 15-20 bucks and get the same thing".

Like Mike P always says: "They don't know the difference between a swirl & squirrel."
 
PaulMys said:
I only do my own vehicles, and I have always expressed how much respect I have for you guys who do it for a living.

After detailing my own truck I have enough! There is nothing easy about doing the job right.
Click to expand...

Props. For me it's a weekend gig for side money/cash. I knock some out in the evenings when wife and kids have events I'm not attending. Keeps me busy and from watching too much TV or what not. A hobby that pays for toys and fun stuff. it is a lot of work but over time it's gotten pretty easy. I avoid the nightmare jobs and my work is 100% word of mouth.

You're right overall though. I saw some local social media chatter that involved a detailer that may likely even be on here but they were Groupon oriented chats and I don't nor would I ever do that. Who knows, he may have a real business to run but in the end, I'd still avoid it.

To Ed's point, people don't realize that it takes 1-2hrs to wash and fully decon and prep a car for my polishing. IMO that's key. Key to better results, faster results and no doubt keeping my gear and pads in great shape. Even on interiors, it's all about the dry first thus why i love my Tornador and corresponding Velocity Vac. Without it, the extractor is just a sludge factory. Back to the point, these $100-$150 "details" people find are nothing more than a strong wash with some hand products applied.

I address questions and comments but simply directing people to my web site, portfolio and testimonials. I have hundreds and where picture tells a thousand words, I challenge them to review my photos there and tell me which is my entry level package and which is full correction and coating package for 5x the cost. Stack my work up against the $150 dude and it's very clear that what he finishes with looks no where near what my entry level packages comes in with.

Ed, keep up the good spirits. Reach out if you need insight or want to banter. PM Me anytime.
 
One thing you could say is, well I wish I got that much per hour too but after expenses and equipment and material costs, it is not even close to that. Mention you have top notch equipment, materials, and tons of time invested testing to find the best products. Heck tell him you have X invested in microfiber towels as each has a purpose...glass, polish, buff, dry, etc. Don’t be snarky just be straight forward and say you’ve worked hard to be an expert and professional to take each person’s vehicle and paint to the highest level possible.
 
TTQ B4U said:
IMO most people, average people, who aren't car people, just want a clean car. I have a basic polish and protect, just posted one in the Show and Shine Section, that is a quick 2-3 passes with a polish and of course something I can upgrade to a quick ceramic on as well. I do quite a few of them. People like this just don't want to spend a lot of money. My goal is normally $100/hr but this fall I've been knocking them out in the evenings and tossing in GYEON CanCoat for no charge. Normally I ask $95 for it as an upgrade but I bought some new toys and wanted to recoupe my spend quickly and it worked.

I don't mind sharing my pricing: The below is typically an AIO product but I offer upgrades too.

Small-Medium 2-4 Door Coupe/Sedan Civic, Accord, Cruz, Altima, A4, Fusion, WRX, Sonic $250
Larger 2-5 Door or Small Hatchback Charger, Avalon, A6, 535, SHO, Genesis, G8, E-Class, Camaro, Mustang, Volt, GTI, Vibe $275
Small SUV, 5 door Med Hatch/Wagon Escape, CR-V, Tesla S, Rogue, Forester, Edge, 2 row seating $295
Large SUV, Van Wagon, Hatchback Explorer, Pilot, Yukon, Wagons, Wrangler, 3 row seating $375
Extra Large SUV, Van, Full Size Truck Full size truck/van, Chevy Suburban, Toyota Sequoia $425
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing! I can relate to the recouping money thing lol. Sometimes I'll "wiggle" my prices when I want a quick buck. Exterior wise I only offer AIO jobs with the option to upgrade to a paint sealant +$70 (rarely taken up on). My prices are:
Coupes / sedans: $130
Small suvs $150
Big suvs + trucks $170

Around here I'm one of the most expensive detailers lol. Most of the detailers are old school with no websites, online presence, or advertising. One of them has a grudge against me...


PaulMys said:
I only do my own vehicles, and I have always expressed how much respect I have for you guys who do it for a living.

After detailing my own truck I have enough! There is nothing easy about doing the job right.



I would say that the people you are talking about Ed, are just ignorant to most things, especially how much works goes into a real detail job.

They probably think "Hey, I can run my car through a tunnel wash for 15-20 bucks and get the same thing".

Like Mike P always says: "They don't know the difference between a swirl & squirrel."
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul. I think of Mike's quote a lot. Sometimes I miss when detailing was just a hobby for me. I haven't washed my car in three months now. I guess as the saying goes "the cobblers children has no shoes" lol.
 
I don't think some get the work that is involved depending on how in depth of a correction they are looking for.

Myself, I bill out at $80/hr. but usually give a slight break the bigger the job.
Now the first thing I do is give a hourly estimate in hours for as near perfection as possible without compromising the paint so that hours is the first thing they hear then branch out to different routes they can take and show pictures.

The more detailed the correction, meaning am I cutting around EVERYTHING close with the ibrid nano (price goes up) or am I doing a single stage using a da with a 5in. pad and just getting what I can (price goes down) making sure they know the more detailed the more pricey, the more I have to change equipment the more price tends to go up.

I do NOT quote over the phone and do not do interiors (If they want there 3 month old fries picked up from under the seat :laughing: )

I always quote in person and ask for expectations, they have there car sitting there in person so I can point to certain parts and say for example....
Point to badges and maybe around door handles, window sweeps depending on body style and let them know that all that work is going to need to be done with a 1" polisher.

Show them work that would need say a 3" and just make it clear that the details=time.

I just make sure hours is the first thing they hear then I go into what makes up those hours along with pictures and myself really don't catch much flak about cost.

I don't think you were looking for advice but I kinda got on a roll with my routine about informing exactly where there money is being spent.
 
Your average person does not know what all go's into a detail. Vehicles are appliances to them. Detailing is way on the bottom of their to do list. Let alone pay for a detail.

Wanted to add, i do not it for money. Weekend warrior that loves the hobby and want my ZR2 looking it's best.
 
98CayenneTA said:
I just make sure hours is the first thing they hear then I go into what makes up those hours along with pictures and myself really don't catch much flak about cost.
Click to expand...

I love this idea and never even thought about it. Odd since I am in a dealership and everything is in hours. I’m definitely going to take this idea and run with it. It will help staff understand what I’m doing in a way that they can relate to it.



Sent from my iPhone using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
....... I wrote so much and deleted it. Don't worry about what people believe it's worth and value yourself and your time. Thanks for calling and if you have any questions or would like to set up and appointment.... Please let me know.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
 
I had my Honda at the dealer last week..... $149 an hour. Sure they have high overhead but those customers are conditioned to think $149 is "what it takes"
 
It's like that for most businesses. I once had a customer complain about a bill and I told him that I paid more monthly for insurance than most people in my county pay for a house. He was dumbfounded. People always want you to work for nothing.
 
Thanks guys, it's nice to hear I'm not the only one that has to deal with people like that. I'll try to mention the hours into each job more and see if that helps out a bit.
 
The vast majority of folks have no idea what effort, time, supplies, and equipment goes into a full fledged detail. To them "detail" means wash, wax, and vacuum. Much of my detailing work was done in Brownsville TX which is the most impoverished area in the USA. Talk about a tough crowd!

I eventually hooked up with professionals that had the money but not the time or desire to personally keep their rides more than presentable. Due to Covid this might not work today but teachers, professors, lawyers, doctors, nurses, etc., were my target clients. This worked out very well as they told coworkers and my clientele began to build......all through word of mouth.

One thing I never did was quote on the phone. I HAD to see the vehicle, the condition it was in, and talk with the potential client. Were they going to sell it? Was it a surprise for wife, husband, relative, etc.? All of this information including the pointed question "What do you expect/desire from this work?" helped determine the price. If the phone customer persisted without any attempt or effort for me to see the car I politely suggested they go elsewhere. I was willing to go to the car as long as the client was available for conversation. Some would prefer to insist on a phone quote which I absolutely would not do.

Talking to them helps you and educates them as to what is involved. I hope this helps even if only in a small way.
 
I would agree that, to some degree, people devalue it because "He/she is just cleaning my car". There is a difference between someone who cleans cars and a detailer. The demographic a detailer lives in will also play a part, and then you have detailers that under-value their time and don't charge enough despite the quality of work is worth twice what they are charging. Myself personally, my prices are 20-30% higher than the local dealership in town, and double what the car wash charges. Am I booked every day? Not yet, because I'm a start up as of July, but my quality of work, service offerings, and customer reviews/referrals are doing my promoting and getting me that 20-30% higher dollar. People do take notice after they have a car professionally detailed, and realize that yes, it is worth the extra money to have someone professionally detail your vehicle and understand that a quality detailer knows what he/she is doing.

Likewise, I can compare this gig to my custom painting/airbrush work where folks call and ask how much to paint a goalie mask. 90% of the time I never hear back from them because the cost is too much. People think "He's an artist. It will only take him a couple hours.... etc. etc." However they don't realize the time invested in rendering the design, the prep work, the repair work if any, disassembly, time to paint the complex design, the cost of the clear coat alone is $50/quart out of pocket for me.
 
Ed Abbondanzio said:
Does detailing suffer from the public underestimating how much work goes into it?
Click to expand...


Yes.


For what it's worth, in a lot of the recent LIVE detailing class videos Yancy and I have made - I point this out. Most people only know where the key goes, or where the button is to push to start their car. They know ZERO about the car and specifically about the paint and overall detailing of the car.


For example - most people have no idea how many HOURS it takes to do JUST the paint correction step. They don't understand you cannot buff out an entire panel, like the hood so You have to divide the hood up into smaller sections

They don't know you cannot simply move the polisher FASTER to go faster. The polisher must be moved SLOWLY over the surface making a series of crosshatch patterns or linear patterns to correctly level the paint to remove defects while at the same time making the paint look good.

They don't know the above. So yeah, the unwashed masses have no clue as to how much time and WORK goes into taking a neglected car to a car that looks like it's brand new again.


Same goes for the amount of time it takes to properly wash a car plus the wheels and tires.

Time yourself sometime as to how long it takes to wash 4 wheels and tires. From start to finish. If you're good at this, if you have all the right tools and products, it will take you right at 1 hours. That's only 15 minutes per wheel and tire.

Washing the average size car takes about an hour. So to wash a car and 4 wheels and tires takes 2 hours. More time for larger vehicles like trucks, vans and suvs.


Say you take 4 hours start to finish to do the paint correction. That's 6 hours for washing and paint correction and you still have so many other things to do.

So to answer your question, most people have know idea how long it takes and how much physical work it takes to go from neglected to respected.

And guess what - it's not their job to know. It's your job to know and educate them. And it's when you have the ability to educate a potential customer as to what it takes to fix their neglect - including how long - that's when they can understand the price.


:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
And guess what - it's not their job to know. It's your job to know and educate them. And it's when you have the ability to educate a potential customer as to what it takes to fix their neglect - including how long - that's when they can understand the price.
Click to expand...
I’m a professional computer consultant and used to work at Microsoft as a consultant. Before I worked at Microsoft I had to establish myself as an expert to really get things done and that took some time, effort, and education. Being at Microsoft I was “Microsoft” and had to be careful to manage expectations because I was immediately seen as the “savior” for any and all problems that ailed them. Now that I no longer work at Microsoft but used to, establishing myself as an expert is pretty easy but it is still a noticeable step and I’ve still had a couple challenging times where I’ve had to reign in expectations. You absolutely need to understand and establish expectations while establishing yourself as the expert.

For consulting, the first stage of an engagement is sometimes called envisioning, which is where we understand the details of the engagement, manage expectations, and most importantly as I stated before, establish yourself as the expert. You’re trying to identity the work in terms of an equation. The triple constraints (triangle) of a project are time, cost, and scope of work, which also intrinsically includes quality as higher quality means a bigger triangle. How long will it take, which is also synonymous with cost since that is the bulk of the rate discussion? Scope means what you will do and to what extent? As others have said, you need to understand their quality expectations and the scope of work. You do that by asking questions and educating the client at the same time. You have to point out the paint problems; swirl marks, RIDs, etc. Pull out the swirl finding light and really show them what you mean by paint correction and how far they want to go. Pull out the tools and materials you’ll use including number of pads, towels, multiple polishers, etc. My guess is they will never think their paint is as bad as it is so you have to show them. And as others mentioned, you have to explain that paint correction takes time and is multiple steps and some areas take more time and effort than others. While you’re teaching them, you’re establishing yourself as the expert and letting them know this isn’t as simple or quick as they thought. Explain how many steps and how much time the tires alone take. But practice this as you need to have the sales pitch down because it can’t sound like a sales pitch and you won’t have much time to convince the client.

And if someone is only wanting to get a quote over the phone then they are only interested in the cost side of the equation. You won’t win with them and you’re better off just letting them know that your focus on quality doesn’t allow a simple quote over the phone because every car is different in terms of what it might need. Some vehicles may not need much of a correction so you wouldn’t want to recommend something that isn’t needed and the only way to do that is by seeing the vehicle in person.

Part of being an expert is putting yourself in a position to succeed and that means being discerning with who you choose as clients. It also means being honest with yourself on the type of work you enjoy doing and the work you don’t enjoy. Try to identify the type of work you don’t enjoy doing and stay away from it. That is the easiest way to ensure success and happiness for yourself.
 
What I have found, people looking for corrections/coatings are typically ok with pricing. It is the interior detailing people that are brutal. to do a thorough cleaning on an SUV interior, im probably slow, but 3-8 hrs is about what it takes me. and people only want to pay 1-150 for that. I can do a 1 step/1 year on the same SUV in 4-6 hrs for $600. They are happy to pay that Crazy
 
Those people that won't pay for interior work accordingly, likely don't change their undergarments as much as their clothes. Look at me, look at me, but don't smell me.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top