Does ONR alter the LSP?

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nubaseal

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Does ONR alter the LSP?



Hi Mike,

I have been doing rinse less and water less washes for a long time without any problems. I use ONR, UWW+, CG HFE, DG RW etc.

However, lately I have started using the nano sealants and coating that are extremely hydrophobic, they repel water and dirt to a great extent and keep the car cleaner, for longer.

I am unsure if using products like ONR on these LSPs will degrade their performance. While I am aware that the protection/polymers from ONR don't last longer than a day or two after a wash, it could still defeat the purpose of having a LSP that is ahead of ONR in water behavior and self cleaning ability.

Does this mean that I need to go back to the 2BM wash with a traditional shampoo? I really like ONR/UWW as they save me a lot of time and effort.

The LSPs I am referring to include Sonax Polymer Netshield, Sonax Nano Paint Protect, Sonax NanoTechnology Liquid Wax, Sonax Brilliant Shine Detailer and CQuartz.


:xyxthumbs:
 
Any product will degrade over time, and some faster than others. In the case of coatings, they are chemical resistant so no real worry on using high quality automotive products in the maintenance of your car. Sealants will offer great protection but will need to be renewed more often, and don't have the same resiliency to UVs, industrial fallouts etc.. Again, they should be formulated to withstand the cleaning agents in high quality maintenance products like ONR, UWW etc...
 
We are talking about super hydrophobic sealants like Sonax PNS. I would use the Sonax Brilliant Shine detailer after the monthly wash and the sheeting/beading would be epic, something not seen with traditional waxes and sealants.

The only alternative that I can think of is either use the Sonax BSD (super hydrophobic) after every ONR wash or find a Rinseless wash that does not leave anything behind. I think Meg's has one but I am not sure if it leaves anything behind.
 
Meg's D114 supposedly leaves nothing behind.
I don't examine my car with a microscope but per my experience, this seems valid as my paint feels squeaky clean.
 
This actually raises another topic, notably how to clean highly hydrophobic surfaces (inspite of claims, I have not seen anything that actually fits the textbook definition of 'super'). This is an area of significant interest within the cleaning industry.

The most crucial thing for you guys to realise is that, if you spray a wash solution onto a vehicle surface and it beads up, then it is not suitable for cleaning it. The reason is simple, water based cleaning products rely on 'wetting' to clean. The entire surfactant industry is based around this little detail. If your surface is so hydrophobic that the wash solution 'beads' on it, then you simply are not wetting it. As a result, any cleaning you achieve when you wipe with a mitt or cloth is a result of mechanical work, not chemical. In other words, you might as well not be using the chemical at all and just wiping with a wet mitt - I am sure you chaps appreciate that this is not a good thing to do if you wish to maintain the finish for as long as possible.
 
I've washed my vehicle probably 5-6 times with ONR and my LSP is Sonax PNS and I just did a conventional wash this past week and the beading is still perfect. In fact here's a video:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG4SAvcg-9M]Sonax Polymer Net Shield Beading & Sheeting - 2 Months - YouTube[/video]
 
PiPUK said:
This actually raises another topic, notably how to clean highly hydrophobic surfaces (inspite of claims, I have not seen anything that actually fits the textbook definition of 'super'). This is an area of significant interest within the cleaning industry.

The most crucial thing for you guys to realise is that, if you spray a wash solution onto a vehicle surface and it beads up, then it is not suitable for cleaning it. The reason is simple, water based cleaning products rely on 'wetting' to clean. The entire surfactant industry is based around this little detail. If your surface is so hydrophobic that the wash solution 'beads' on it, then you simply are not wetting it. As a result, any cleaning you achieve when you wipe with a mitt or cloth is a result of mechanical work, not chemical. In other words, you might as well not be using the chemical at all and just wiping with a wet mitt - I am sure you chaps appreciate that this is not a good thing to do if you wish to maintain the finish for as long as possible.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I'm scared to death to use the pinnacle rinseless wash with 'Nuba on my car that has been PBL coated. I'm afraid the rinseless wash won't properly encapsulate the dirt and lift it off the surface while I swipe the towels across the paint.

Water runs off the coating like its allergic to it. At least with my pressure washer and foam cannon I'm getting some dwell time on the coating, but even that has been significantly reduced.
 
I have used ONR on a wide variety of products and not noticed any problems. However, I guess it is possible ONR and something like the Sonax are not compatible. Not used any of these fancy products to be able to give an answer based upon experience. Maybe the best solution would be to split a panel and wash with a traditional shampoo in one section and ONR (or similar) in the other. Only other thing I can think of is to ask on the Optimum forums
 
nubaseal said:
Hi Mike,

I have been doing rinse less and water less washes for a long time without any problems. I use ONR, UWW+, CG HFE, DG RW etc.

However, lately I have started using the nano sealants and coating that are extremely hydrophobic, they repel water and dirt to a great extent and keep the car cleaner, for longer.

I am unsure if using products like ONR on these LSPs will degrade their performance.

While I am aware that the protection/polymers from ONR don't last longer than a day or two after a wash, it could still defeat the purpose of having a LSP that is ahead of ONR in water behavior and self cleaning ability.

Does this mean that I need to go back to the 2BM wash with a traditional shampoo?

I really like ONR/UWW as they save me a lot of time and effort. The LSPs I am referring to include Sonax Polymer Netshield, Sonax Nano Paint Protect, Sonax NanoTechnology Liquid Wax, Sonax Brilliant Shine Detailer and CQuartz.
Click to expand...



Great question nubaseal...


One of my key strengths when it comes to discussion forums includes,

  1. Remembering things said.
  2. Who said them.
  3. And how to find them.

Discussion forums are POWERFUL SOURCES of INFORMATION


The key is finding the information. If the information cannot be drudged up then it's as good as not existing. Lucky for you, I remember all the little tidbits of info posted to forums, this forum and others. I might not be able to remember what I ate for lunch yesterday but my mind remembers and locks in information related to all things detailing.

So to your questions and musings, I remember a coating expert chimed in on just this topic, so instead of me answering your question, I've cyber-dug up the information from a car detailing project we did here at Autogeek where the lead chemist from GTechniq answers your questions.


From this thread,

Video & Pictures: 1965 Fastback Mustang - GTechniq EXO Show Car Makeover!



And this car project,

65Stang026.jpg




Here's what Rob had to say....


gtechrob said:
just a quick note about after care - use of quick detailers/waterless washes etc.

EXO is fine with these. The only thing I would point out is that all of these products are putting something on the finish so that the surface characteristics of water repellency, feel etc. will be from this and not the EXO underneath.

My personal preference is to wash EXO using a pure high quality shampoo such as G-Wash, this way you get the maximum durability from the organic layer and benefit from the great water and dirt repellency of EXO.

If you do want to use a qd type product, GTechniq C1.5 Silo Seal would be a great choice as it has excellent surface functionality.

HTH!
Click to expand...


So if we remove the brand specific recommendation, not because I don't like GTechniq products because I do, but to un-box his insight in a way that applies to ANYONE reading this into the future using ANY bona-fide coating here's my take on what Rob posted.

I think Rob is saying is that by using any waterless wash, rinseless wash and spray detailers, and I'll go out on a limb here and include any car washes that also include a wax/glossing agents, that any of these that leave something behind on the surface will mask the or cover up the properties offered by the coating and now you'll get the properties or characteristics of whatever it is you used.


Further, since coatings are supposed to NOT be affected by a quality simple car wash, not a wash and wax type car wash), that the best way to maintain the coating you've applied AND get the properties and characteristics of the coating then the best way to do this is to only wash using simple, straightforward car wash soaps.

How does that sound? Make sense?


My take on this means that your take is correct and to get the best performance out of the coatings you're using then quit using the waterless/rinseless washes and go back to the two-bucket method you mentioned.

I would also add that to truly take care of any finish that has been polished to a high degree and then coated you would also want to wash it the way I describe in my how-to book in the car washing section that talks about the two different approaches to washing a car and use what I call the Gentle Approach.


Don't know if the above helps or if that's what you wanted to hear but there you go....


:)
 
IME UWW+ doesn't affect beading or affects it in a positive way. Of course, the real trick is to wipe down with Sonax BSD after if you want super beads. ONR can negatively affect beading IMHO.

However, I also use the Pinnacle waterless and rinseless and they seem to do OK as well. Basically, don't overthink it. ONR won't mess up your wax or coating.

But, I like the other products listed BETTER than ONR.
 
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