Excellent General Pros and cons of Wax vs Coatings by Georg Weidmann of Swissvax AG
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custmsprty
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- Apr 11, 2012
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Nice jacket, the 1970's are calling :awesome:
C5Longhorn
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- Jun 21, 2015
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Good video, I don't think it's quite as hard to remove a consumer coating as he makes it sound but it definitely is more work.
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BudgetPlan1
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2015
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M205 with a orange Force pad removed what was left of year-old WG Uber. (Flex) in 4 passes FWIW.
oneheadlite
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- Aug 20, 2015
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In a situation like that, how do you know the coating is removed? Or were you just going for defect removal and that was all it took?
This is something I've been wondering as I'll be (Gloss) coating my car soon. At first I was all freaked out about the implications of how a coating would affect future polishing; but have since figured that as long as you had proper prepwork before applying the coating so it bonds properly, in the future you'd only need to focus on removing whatever marring has occurred since (Vs focusing on removing ensuring the coating is completely removed).
This is something I've been wondering as I'll be (Gloss) coating my car soon. At first I was all freaked out about the implications of how a coating would affect future polishing; but have since figured that as long as you had proper prepwork before applying the coating so it bonds properly, in the future you'd only need to focus on removing whatever marring has occurred since (Vs focusing on removing ensuring the coating is completely removed).
C5Longhorn
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- Jun 21, 2015
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Almost exact same process I used to correct high spot on WGUCC. Only difference is I used Lake Country white pad.
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BudgetPlan1
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- Dec 21, 2015
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I was going for complete removal so I could record with something (I think) is much better. The Uber was starting to fade on vertical panels after driving daily thru NE Ohio winter.
I did half (drivers side) first and then compared water behavior, how surface felt to touch between sides and concluded it was gone, so continued with passenger side. I:
1. Washed with Dawn (strictly because it was cheap)
2. Decon'd with FerreX
3. Clayed with Nanoskin medium
4. Washed with Gyeon Bathe
5. M205 w/Flex and orange LC Hybrid Force
6. Polished w Rupes Diamond Ultra Fine Gel Polish w/ white Rupes pad and LHR15 Mk 2
7. WG Perfect Finish Paint Prep wipe down
8. Coated.
It was kinda a pain to make sure to hand polish areas like door jambs and front/rear bumper/valence areas cuz I coated them but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
silverfox
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- Oct 5, 2010
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Swissvax sells lots of wax. Having said that I've returned to sealants and wax for my own car after trying several coatings. It just looks so damn better on my car. Not speaking of others and I enjoy babying my car without the hassle of a perfect prep step.
rlmccarty2000
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- Dec 23, 2013
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What a load of hooey. He could buy a new jacket from the proceeds of one jar of wax. He said a coating is permanent, nope. Also said easier to remove scratches in paint over scratches in the coating. I'm trying to save paint by applying a coating. He also forgot you get more protection from a coating than wax. I like wax, but he needs to get his act together. I guess he is losing market share.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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I just watched the video.
This thread was "Reported" because the link to the video promotes products that are not sold on the AG store thus breaking forum rules. As a company we've relaxed a little on the forum rules...
After watching the video I actually think Mr. George Weidmann makes some good points.
Something I've noticed with coatings and have stated on this forum, in my classes and at Mobile Tech Expo is that just like your car's paint can get build -up of road film on it... so can the coating on our car's paint.
If you're reading this and don't know what road film is and/or where it comes from, see my article here,
Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film
I proved this to myself by machine polishing our white Mercedes-Benz after 6 months of having a coating on the paint. When I polished the paint I used,
The car has a clearcoat. The coating was clear. But after machine polishing the hood and the roof the pad looked like this,
Where did the brownish/grayish color come from?
It came from road film that had impacted or bonded onto the coating. And of course, I washed the car before working on it and this means any LOOSE dirt would have been removed.
So what I think is this,
Coatings that last more than a year are great if you want protection.
If you want your car to look it's best then you need to periodically do something to it and by the word something I mean some form of machine polishing and re-sealing.
So to me, a one-year coating is the best of all worlds. You get great protection. A real glassy looking paint job. Fast washing and drying to due to the hydrophobic characteristics of the coating. But after one year goes by it's time to,
That's not a bad process for anyone that is into their car and into their car's appearance. Like the type of people that would be reading this post.
This is also why I use a simple one-step cleaner/wax on my truck instead of a coating. A cleaner/wax will,
IN one step. A cleaner/wax will remove the road film that builds up and restore the brightness of the color of the paint by restoring clarity to the clear layer of paint. Plus make it all shiny by making the surface smooth and defect free.
Coatings are an option but the end-all, be-all of paint protection.
Like anything, there's a time and place for coatings, waxes and synthetic sealants.
Also, he has a point on the issue of regular maintenance.
A daily driver is going to see wear-n-tear and this means swirls, scratches, scuffs, etc. to the most commonly worn areas of your car's finish. I've read all kinds of "opinions" on what is required to remove a coating including wet sanding. Wow! Really?
So if a person with a Toyota Camry gets some swirls or scratches on the hood of their car and wants to remove them but the car has been coated - they or some detailer now has to wet sand the hood to remove the coating and thus remove the scratches and then compound, polish and re-coat?
Where with a wax or sealant they could simply polish and re-wax.
Clearcoats are thin... most people shouldn't be hand or machine sanding factory paint. Keep in mind,
And you don't have much paint to start with when talking about a factory finish.
Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips
Plus all the UV protection is in the clear layer of paint so the more clear you remove the less UV protection you have to last over the service life of the car. Not to mention the UV inhibitors in the clearcoat have a half life of 5 years.
Sometimes - KISS rules the day...
KISS = Keep it Simple Simon
This thread was "Reported" because the link to the video promotes products that are not sold on the AG store thus breaking forum rules. As a company we've relaxed a little on the forum rules...
After watching the video I actually think Mr. George Weidmann makes some good points.
Something I've noticed with coatings and have stated on this forum, in my classes and at Mobile Tech Expo is that just like your car's paint can get build -up of road film on it... so can the coating on our car's paint.
If you're reading this and don't know what road film is and/or where it comes from, see my article here,
Road Film - If you drive your car in the rain your car has road film
I proved this to myself by machine polishing our white Mercedes-Benz after 6 months of having a coating on the paint. When I polished the paint I used,
- Porter Cable
- White 5.5" Lake Country Foam Polishing Pad
- White colored Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover Polish
The car has a clearcoat. The coating was clear. But after machine polishing the hood and the roof the pad looked like this,
Where did the brownish/grayish color come from?
It came from road film that had impacted or bonded onto the coating. And of course, I washed the car before working on it and this means any LOOSE dirt would have been removed.
So what I think is this,
Coatings that last more than a year are great if you want protection.
If you want your car to look it's best then you need to periodically do something to it and by the word something I mean some form of machine polishing and re-sealing.
So to me, a one-year coating is the best of all worlds. You get great protection. A real glassy looking paint job. Fast washing and drying to due to the hydrophobic characteristics of the coating. But after one year goes by it's time to,
- Wash
- Chemically decontaminate
- Mechanically decontaminate
- Machine polish
- Re-seal with the coating
That's not a bad process for anyone that is into their car and into their car's appearance. Like the type of people that would be reading this post.
This is also why I use a simple one-step cleaner/wax on my truck instead of a coating. A cleaner/wax will,
- Clean
- Polish
- Protect
IN one step. A cleaner/wax will remove the road film that builds up and restore the brightness of the color of the paint by restoring clarity to the clear layer of paint. Plus make it all shiny by making the surface smooth and defect free.
Coatings are an option but the end-all, be-all of paint protection.
Like anything, there's a time and place for coatings, waxes and synthetic sealants.
Also, he has a point on the issue of regular maintenance.
A daily driver is going to see wear-n-tear and this means swirls, scratches, scuffs, etc. to the most commonly worn areas of your car's finish. I've read all kinds of "opinions" on what is required to remove a coating including wet sanding. Wow! Really?
So if a person with a Toyota Camry gets some swirls or scratches on the hood of their car and wants to remove them but the car has been coated - they or some detailer now has to wet sand the hood to remove the coating and thus remove the scratches and then compound, polish and re-coat?
Where with a wax or sealant they could simply polish and re-wax.
Clearcoats are thin... most people shouldn't be hand or machine sanding factory paint. Keep in mind,
- Sanding removes paint
- Compounding removes paint
- Polishing removes paint
And you don't have much paint to start with when talking about a factory finish.
Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips
Plus all the UV protection is in the clear layer of paint so the more clear you remove the less UV protection you have to last over the service life of the car. Not to mention the UV inhibitors in the clearcoat have a half life of 5 years.
Sometimes - KISS rules the day...
KISS = Keep it Simple Simon
atgonzales
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- Oct 5, 2013
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Mike
A very nice write up
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A very nice write up
Sent from my iPad using AGOnline
evo77
Member
- Mar 15, 2008
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The car has a clearcoat. The coating was clear. But after machine polishing the hood and the roof the pad looked like this,
Where did the brownish/grayish color come from?
It came from road film that had impacted or bonded onto the coating...
Wow. I am very surprised at the amount of film that was removed for the paint. Is this really typical for most vehicles with a coating? Could there have been other factors contributing to this amount of bonded grime?
What made you decide to polish those specific panels? Were there visual cues that lead you to believe that the paint color was "off" and quite possibly had a layer of film remaining after washing?
PouncingPanzer
Well-known member
- May 11, 2017
- 1,101
- 331
Removing a hazy CQuartz application isn't very fun lol.
- Thread starter
- #15
Hello Mike,
Thank you for leaving the video it up and commenting on it in depth. I wanted to post it because I see so much pushing of expensive coatings recently yet they are not the end all for daily drivers or amateur detailers. I have tried them and found them to have significent downsides for daily driver cars in New England. Despite their claims they will not guarantee a shiny car for years without regular attention and maintenance. Your comments on road film are spot on. I think most weekend warrior detailers (like myself) would do better with a cleaner/wax polish two to four times a year and regular washing. Also the current leading aio, cleaner/waxes, quick maintenance sprays etc are really easy to use, highly effective and economical compared to coatings which are expensive and have to be handled delicately. They also have a shorter shelf life. A last point is the time and skill level to put on coatings correctly is higher than people realize. You need good lighting, a clean area, perfect prep and technique and lots of time to even approach what a professional detailer can do. The new coatings are an impressive advancement in the field but they are not for everyone.
Thank you for leaving the video it up and commenting on it in depth. I wanted to post it because I see so much pushing of expensive coatings recently yet they are not the end all for daily drivers or amateur detailers. I have tried them and found them to have significent downsides for daily driver cars in New England. Despite their claims they will not guarantee a shiny car for years without regular attention and maintenance. Your comments on road film are spot on. I think most weekend warrior detailers (like myself) would do better with a cleaner/wax polish two to four times a year and regular washing. Also the current leading aio, cleaner/waxes, quick maintenance sprays etc are really easy to use, highly effective and economical compared to coatings which are expensive and have to be handled delicately. They also have a shorter shelf life. A last point is the time and skill level to put on coatings correctly is higher than people realize. You need good lighting, a clean area, perfect prep and technique and lots of time to even approach what a professional detailer can do. The new coatings are an impressive advancement in the field but they are not for everyone.
WillSports3
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- Jun 13, 2016
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I find that something like PBL paint cleansing lotion will work great applied to a coated car. Like Mikes pad, it'll show a lot of pulled off contaminants but without removing the actual coating.