Experienced opinions needed - Paint correction problems

ignited22

ignited22

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Hello everyone! I a relatively new to the paint correction aspect of detailing. I decided that I would buff my mother-in-laws 2005 black mustang gt. After a wash and clay mitt, I was ready to start the buffing process. After making several passes on the hood wither different products, I was still left with swirl marks.

My Opinion. I believe these marks are left from the compound. I also believe that I don't have a decent enough polish to remove the compound swirls. I have included pics below. Any experienced buffers suggestions welcome to help remove all the swirl marks and product suggestion.

Products Used:
Flex 3401XC
Chemical Guys Pad Kit - http://www.amazon.com/Chemical-Guys...1453234179&sr=8-3&keywords=chemical+guys+pads
3m 06064 Polish - Amazon.com: 3M 06064 Perfect-It Machine Polish - 1 Quart: Automotive
3m Rubbing Compound 05974 - Amazon.com: Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound 05974, 1 Gallon: Automotive
As well as some polish products from MSI (local)

Paint on hood after medium/heavy cut pad and 3m rubbing compound. 3-4 passes on speed 5. The hood seem to have "pits" in the clear and it looks like I didn't have enough cut.
16wtl9o.jpg


Paint on hood after wool cutting pad and 3m rubbing compound. This seemed to cut much better, but I still suffered from some pitting left over. More passes? Also, this was a larger pad for a dewalt rotor buffer, I was looking into a 6.5" wool pad for the Flex. Do they work well?
LOUFHr1.jpg


The hood after multiple passes with light/med/heavy polish pad and 3m polish + MSI products. Nothing removed the swirls despite 3-5 passes on speeds ranging from 3-4 and various levels of engagement. I also used a heavy cutting pad + 3m to see if I could get more cut and no use. I think I need a better polish for this. Opinions? Any suggestions on products would be helpful.
qcSPice.jpg

RVfiR97.jpg

tepD3ur.jpg
 
You are correct, you dont have the right compound. are you in a time crunch? you obviously can order from here, or buy OTC. depends on what your situation is.
 
Hi Andy! Thank you for the response. I am not in a time crunch. She knows I want to do this right, I will be following up with a correction on my black tahoe, so I need to have the right products in place. Which compound are you referring to? The polish? Do you have a recommendation of a better cut/polish combo? I am also curious about picking up a wool pad for the flex.. any experience with that?
 
I've personally used these products before. And unfortunately with the perfect it 2 polish, sometimes the polish doesn't finish down that great and it's extremely highly visible on black. My big gripe with the polish is that it gummed up at times making it a bit more difficult to have an LSP finish. I always fisnished up with perfect ultrafine machine polish(step 3) which is also part of the 3M system. The ultrafine polish has an extremely long work time too and is always a must when working on black using the 3m system, at least in my opinion.
 
I didn't pick the 3m products, it was just what I had at my disposal from a friend. I personally would like to shy away from the 3m lineup. I know exactly what you are talking about "showing on black" I was getting some haze. I have used HDspeed and that worked pretty well in the past. I would love to invest in some Wolfgang products, but they are pricey.
 
Do you have any pics of the paint before you started? The pitting looks like water mark etching. Was there a lot of water marks before you started?
 
I find myself reaching for meguiars m101 and m205. I feel m205 would work for you. In the past when "black" wasn't finishing well enough on a LC white polishing pad with m205, I found that using a black LC finishing pad does the trick and left a perfect LSP finish.
 
I think the info here on what's happening is pretty spot on.

I believe it was mentioned by someone before, the 3m compound may be better suited for rotary use. I'm not 100% certain about this but definitely worth researching.

Also I don't know if you are just at that stage of seeing what the compound would do, but I didn't see a finishing polish as a product you have which would be necessary on black paint.

Also if you have an interest in the Wolfgang polishes one of my recommendations would be to try the Menzerna line. FG400 and SF4000 is a nice combination and popular amongst us the forum(they changed the name of SF4000 to something else now). They may have deals discounts if you do some research on it as well.

Also considering the age of the vehicle please take precautions on how much you compound certain spots.
 
90% of the time, it's Meguiar's Ultimate Compound on their green pad, and Ultimate Polish on the blue for me. Occasionally I'll use M100/M205, but being that I'm not in a paint shop, I don't require that body shop safe feature.

I ended up selling off all the yellow, orange, and white pads I had.

I agree though, that those 3M products are typically geared towards rotary machines.
 
I have only done the hood on the car in a few spots, I am trying to address the cut/polish combo that will work best. I agree that it looks like water etching, you can see the difference in 2 of the pictures where the etching looks better... this was because of a rotary polisher with a wool cut pad and the 3m rubbing compound. This car has never seen much buffing, so I am not overly worried about the clear. I have a finishing glaze, but I am just looking to get a swirl free surface after 2 steps. I don't believe I will need any serious cut on the rest of the car, I think the clear is most effected on the hood from the water etching. I will take your suggestions on products and make a choice. I still haven't gotten an answer on the wool pads for a 3401.. has anyone used them?
 
Hey. :xyxthumbs:

Wool on the 3401 works fine but most of the time will require a decent second step. Have you considered Lake Country Foamed Wool pads? Cut is fast & in my experience, they usually finish down nicer than wool.

Finishing polish - I like Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish, Megs 205, Wolfgang . . . . Finishing Glaze I think its called? Menzerna has some impressive reviews too but I haven't used it but most quality brands will have a great finishing polish.

Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:
 
Love the Wolfgang line up. Lots of good recommendations here. Good luck!
 
ignited22 said:
Hello everyone! I a relatively new to the paint correction aspect of detailing. I decided that I would buff my mother-in-laws 2005 black mustang gt. After a wash and clay mitt, I was ready to start the buffing process. After making several passes on the hood wither different products, I was still left with swirl marks.

My Opinion. I believe these marks are left from the compound. I also believe that I don't have a decent enough polish to remove the compound swirls. I have included pics below. Any experienced buffers suggestions welcome to help remove all the swirl marks and product suggestion.

Products Used:
Flex 3401XC
Chemical Guys Pad Kit - Amazon.com: Chemical Guys - Hex-Logic Buffing Pad Kit , 6.5 Inch Pads (8 Items): Automotive
3m 06064 Polish - Amazon.com: 3M 06064 Perfect-It Machine Polish - 1 Quart: Automotive
3m Rubbing Compound 05974 - Amazon.com: Perfect-It II Rubbing Compound 05974, 1 Gallon: Automotive
As well as some polish products from MSI (local)

Paint on hood after medium/heavy cut pad and 3m rubbing compound. 3-4 passes on speed 5. The hood seem to have "pits" in the clear and it looks like I didn't have enough cut.
16wtl9o.jpg


Paint on hood after wool cutting pad and 3m rubbing compound. This seemed to cut much better, but I still suffered from some pitting left over. More passes? Also, this was a larger pad for a dewalt rotor buffer, I was looking into a 6.5" wool pad for the Flex. Do they work well?
LOUFHr1.jpg


The hood after multiple passes with light/med/heavy polish pad and 3m polish + MSI products. Nothing removed the swirls despite 3-5 passes on speeds ranging from 3-4 and various levels of engagement. I also used a heavy cutting pad + 3m to see if I could get more cut and no use. I think I need a better polish for this. Opinions? Any suggestions on products would be helpful.
qcSPice.jpg

RVfiR97.jpg

tepD3ur.jpg
Click to expand...

Has the hood been repainted?

The first two photos appear to be solvent popping. You mentioned these are on the hood. My 2005 Mustang GT has the same thing. When the paint / clear was applied at the factory on the aluminum hood, gasses are trapped. As the hood gets hot (from that V8 under the hood) the gasses will rise.

Mike Phillips wrote a whole article on solvent popping and if you search you should be able to find it. Mike pointed out that solvent popping will be more noticeable after a paint correction. Mainly because you've removed all the swirls, defects and oxidation, leaving nothing behind except what couldn't be corrected.

Sadly there is nothing you can do about the solvent popping. No amount of cut, compound, wool, wet sanding will get rid of it. Even as a detailer myself, I sought 2 second opinions in person from two highly regarded AGO Forum Members and two body shop friends who said live with it.

While you are at it, check under the hood where the lip of the aluminum skin meets the frame of the hood. Look for any bubbling or corrosion. This was a problem and a TSB on 05-09 Mustangs. At the factory there was an issue where the aluminum met the steel and wasn't properly primed, thus causing bubbling. It's a case by case basis, but Ford has been correcting and replacing these hoods with the proper primer and shipping it to the dealership for painting. Just mentioning this as something to look out for.

Regarding the swirls, I can't comment on the 3M products because I don't know what process you are using. The only advice is to start back at the beginning and watch the Mike Phillips Videos in the Detailing How-To's section.

I can attest that the 05 Mustang has plento paint (my micron readings are consistent at 140). But you should be employing test spots using the least aggressive methods.

Now going back to my first question, I ask if the hood has been repainted as the clear may be soft. Factory clear on an 05 Mustang is pretty tough... to a point. But if you're polishing and still seeing swirls, and it's been repainted, it's possible it's a soft clear, which you'll have to employ some different methods.
 
paul_g said:
Has the hood been repainted?

The first two photos appear to be solvent popping. You mentioned these are on the hood. My 2005 Mustang GT has the same thing. When the paint / clear was applied at the factory on the aluminum hood, gasses are trapped. As the hood gets hot (from that V8 under the hood) the gasses will rise.

Mike Phillips wrote a whole article on solvent popping and if you search you should be able to find it. Mike pointed out that solvent popping will be more noticeable after a paint correction. Mainly because you've removed all the swirls, defects and oxidation, leaving nothing behind except what couldn't be corrected.

Sadly there is nothing you can do about the solvent popping. No amount of cut, compound, wool, wet sanding will get rid of it. Even as a detailer myself, I sought 2 second opinions in person from two highly regarded AGO Forum Members and two body shop friends who said live with it.

While you are at it, check under the hood where the lip of the aluminum skin meets the frame of the hood. Look for any bubbling or corrosion. This was a problem and a TSB on 05-09 Mustangs. At the factory there was an issue where the aluminum met the steel and wasn't properly primed, thus causing bubbling. It's a case by case basis, but Ford has been correcting and replacing these hoods with the proper primer and shipping it to the dealership for painting. Just mentioning this as something to look out for.

Regarding the swirls, I can't comment on the 3M products because I don't know what process you are using. The only advice is to start back at the beginning and watch the Mike Phillips Videos in the Detailing How-To's section.

I can attest that the 05 Mustang has plento paint (my micron readings are consistent at 140). But you should be employing test spots using the least aggressive methods.

Now going back to my first question, I ask if the hood has been repainted as the clear may be soft. Factory clear on an 05 Mustang is pretty tough... to a point. But if you're polishing and still seeing swirls, and it's been repainted, it's possible it's a soft clear, which you'll have to employ some different methods.
Click to expand...

Hi Paul, thank you for your in depth answer. I do not believe that the hood has been repainted. I also do not believe this to be solvent popping. After running a more aggressive cut, the etching is correcting. I think that solution to this problem is going to be a LC hybrid wool for the 3401 and some megs 105,205. We will see what the result is and I will make sure to put together another post with the results to help out anyone in the future with similar problems.
 
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