Exterior Detail Timing Analysis

waelwell

waelwell

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I'm new to the business. I know I can do really good work. What I'm unsure of is how fast I am. If I'm slow, I'm leaving money on the table. So read on and share your thoughts.

The car - The car for this example is a Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series. It's silver. The car was well kept but it hadn't been detailed in 3 years. The car has lots of edges, trim, and contours that break the panels into small sections and make it tough to use a 6" buffer.

The service - I did what I consider an entry exterior detail that includes, washing the wheels, washing the car, claybar, and wax (or a one step polish/wax). The price for that service is $290. Yeah, that's quite a bit more than what I've heard others charge for similar services. Don't worry about my price. I have competition that are priced higher than I am and I can pull in customers that don't have an issue with the price if the work is good.

The time - Here's a breakdown of how long it took me to knock out the work:
  • Wheels - 55 minutes - This includes brushing the wheel wells and cleaning about 50% of the way to the back of the barrels. 14 minutes per wheel seems long. Remember, this includes filling the buckets, collecting the tools, and cleanup.
  • Wash/dry - 45 minutes - this includes washing, wiping down the door edges, door jams, and around the hood and trunk. I've seen videos of guys doing sub 10 minutes washes but it doesn't include drying or wiping the jambs.
  • Clay - 60 minutes.
  • Wax - 120 minutes - in this case I used a one step with a polish in it. Regardless, I'm looking at a little under an hour to apply the wax and a bit over an hour to wipe it off.
  • Wash windows, apply tire dressing, cleanup - 30 minutes
So I've got a little over 5 hours invested.

The customer was very happy.

I've heard that a service like this should take 3 hours. I'll blame 30 - 45 minutes of my time on the complexity of the car.

Is this a reasonable time for the service performed? Or am I slow? If you think I'm slow, hit me with some thoughts about where I'm wasting time. Maybe I'm doing lots of bits of work that folks doing a 3 hour detail don't do?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice.

Bill
 
waelwell said:
I'm new to the business. I know I can do really good work. What I'm unsure of is how fast I am. If I'm slow, I'm leaving money on the table. So read on and share your thoughts.

The car - The car for this example is a Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series. It's silver. The car was well kept but it hadn't been detailed in 3 years. The car has lots of edges, trim, and contours that break the panels into small sections and make it tough to use a 6" buffer.

The service - I did what I consider an entry exterior detail that includes, washing the wheels, washing the car, claybar, and wax (or a one step polish/wax). The price for that service is $290. Yeah, that's quite a bit more than what I've heard others charge for similar services. Don't worry about my price. I have competition that are priced higher than I am and I can pull in customers that don't have an issue with the price if the work is good.

The time - Here's a breakdown of how long it took me to knock out the work:
  • Wheels - 55 minutes - This includes brushing the wheel wells and cleaning about 50% of the way to the back of the barrels. 14 minutes per wheel seems long. Remember, this includes filling the buckets, collecting the tools, and cleanup.
  • Wash/dry - 45 minutes - this includes washing, wiping down the door edges, door jams, and around the hood and trunk. I've seen videos of guys doing sub 10 minutes washes but it doesn't include drying or wiping the jambs.
  • Clay - 60 minutes.
  • Wax - 120 minutes - in this case I used a one step with a polish in it. Regardless, I'm looking at a little under an hour to apply the wax and a bit over an hour to wipe it off.
  • Wash windows, apply tire dressing, cleanup - 30 minutes
So I've got a little over 5 hours invested.

The customer was very happy.

I've heard that a service like this should take 3 hours. I'll blame 30 - 45 minutes of my time on the complexity of the car.

Is this a reasonable time for the service performed? Or am I slow? If you think I'm slow, hit me with some thoughts about where I'm wasting time. Maybe I'm doing lots of bits of work that folks doing a 3 hour detail don't do?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice.

Bill
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It looks like your making a little over $50 per hour which is not too bad.

1. Wheels - I'm in about the same time frame for wheels, tires, wheel wells. I like to get the inner barrels as clean as possible - about 40-60 minutes, depending on the condition. Wheels that are properly maintained will go faster.

2. Wash - 45 minutes is not bad for a traditional wash if you include drying and wiping all the jambs. A rinseless wash may save you some time here.

3. Clay - You can save time here by claying the car after you wash and rinse while it's still wet. Spray some clay lube on the wet car and clay. Using a clay towel or mitt will save you more time than a clay bar, IMO.

4. Wax - 120 minutes (2 hours) is pretty quick for polishing out a car. I usually take longer and charge more for using my polisher.

5. Wash windows, apply tire dressing, cleanup - 30 minutes is pretty good.​

Polishing a car properly is time consuming and most people don't notice the swirls they just want a clean shiny car.

If you wanted to skip the polishing step and save yourself some time, you could:

1. Use Opti-Seal or a good quality spray wax as a drying aid.

2. Use Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant, Pinnacle Liquid Souveran or similar - spread it with a buffer quickly, not really polishing here, just spreading it, and then wipe off.​
 
Lots of variables on the timing, I would say 2 hrs and 20 minutes for the service you performed.To much time for drying and cleaning the wheels.claying you can do in 30 minutes.waxing the car you can cut time also.But this timing is done out of a van with a pw and everything I need.If I take something out I put it back so clean up time is maybe 10 minutes.It bothers me to see bottles laying around all over the driveway and etc.If your full time into this,it gets easier and you can shave mega time.
 
GSKR said:
Lots of variables on the timing, I would say 2 hrs and 20 minutes for the service you performed.To much time for drying and cleaning the wheels.claying you can do in 30 minutes.waxing the car you can cut time also.But this timing is done out of a van with a pw and everything I need.If I take something out I put it back so clean up time is maybe 10 minutes.It bothers me to see bottles laying around all over the driveway and etc.If your full time into this,it gets easier and you can shave mega time.
Click to expand...

2hrs 20min?! You're moving!
 
My opinion...

When how long a job takes becomes a priority, then the real priorities, i.e., attention-to-detail and overall quality, are compromised.
 
Back in the day at Mercedes I had 9 cars to do by myself.mabe 2 full porche details then the rest pdi work.you can really hussle once you have a good technique down,and products that work.
 
Jomax said:
2hrs 20min?! You're moving!
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing... That's fast... but it's not the first time I've heard numbers like that and that's why I'm writing this. Let's look at the claybar - I took 60 minutes and GSKR says it can be done in 30 minutes. Yeah, a simpler car could take 10 minutes or so off the time but not cut it in half. That means I'm either moving at a snail's pace (I'm not) or I'm hitting a lot of surfaces with the clay that GSKR isn't. How far down the rocker panels do you guys use the clay? Do you clay the windows? Do you clay the trim pieces if they're body color? Clay the bumper covers?

Bill
 
Of course there wil be some savings time wise to be had, but its very hard to comment / compare as the vehicles are going to be coming in at a different level.. so IF (its a big if) you are getting them to the same end condition then of course the time will vary.. claying a whole car can take 30 mins if there is next to nothing on it and it lifts very easily... up to a number of hours if its never seem clay of polish let alone wax in 5 plus years etc..

You have a few options; standardise what you put in and charge a standard price... but with variable outcomes..
OR commit to an end condition following a vehicle inspection and budget / charge accordingly..
manganing expectations depending on which line you follow will be very important..

We can all work faster and harder but its not a long term solution... you'll be in an early grave..
 
Let's take,this car you posted.first attack are the wheels with a pw 20 minutes tops with the barrels clean with some wheel acid.7 minutes to foam,10 minutes to lather.30 minutes to clay with a nanoskin refoam and rinse..15 minutes to dry everything.dress tires 12 min,apply wax and remove 35 min.all glass 12 pieces of glass inside and out 20 min.I will give you 10 min to,clean up and 10"min to speak to customer,then another 30 minutes to spiff up interior.If I'm not mistaken that's close to 2 hrs of sufficent time to do that car.you have to be organized in your van,ther is no time for fumbling around looking for stuff.you will get there.
 
My friend Kevin hill and myself on a good day we use to do 16 cars and trucks for Mercedes .He would tackle the inside,and I would do the exterior ,cars ranging from eclass s class and the ml line up and a lot of sl.you would be amazed how much you can do.
 
2black1s said:
My opinion...

When how long a job takes becomes a priority, then the real priorities, i.e., attention-to-detail and overall quality, are compromised.
Click to expand...

Quality doesn't have to take a back seat to efficiency. A well organize shop or mobile detailing rig will cut down a lot of time for setup and switching between tasks. Once you get into a groove and have a system of products and procedures you use on pretty much every car it will be easier to start focusing on shaving time off each part of the detailing process.

I'm always testing new ways to complete a service and looking for added efficiency in my processes. Today I shaved over 30 mins off of one of my fleet washing accounts by performing the vac and interior wipe down at the same time vs vacuuming everything and then coming back around for the wipe downs. The less you move around the vehicle, or going back and forth to grab products/supplies, the more time you can spend actually touching the vehicle getting stuff done.
 
GSKR said:
attack the wheels with a pw 20 minutes tops with the barrels clean with some wheel acid.7 minutes to foam,10 minutes to lather.30 minutes to clay with a nanoskin refoam and rinse..15 minutes to dry everything.dress tires 12 min,apply wax and remove 35 min.all glass 12 pieces of glass inside and out 20 min.I will give you 10 min to,clean up and 10"min to speak to customer,then another 30 minutes to spiff up interior.If I'm not mistaken that's close to 2 hrs of sufficient time to do that car.you have to be organized in your van, there is no time for fumbling around looking for stuff.you will get there.
Click to expand...

If you say that you can do all that in 2 hours, I can only believe you. A couple comments/questions are in order:
  • Wheels - can you really get brake dust off a wheel with just wheel acid and a pressure washer (PW)? Every time I've tried a PW on wheels it left a tiny film of dust that I had to use a brush or woolie to remove. I guess I'll have to try it again.
  • Clay - Can you really clay a car top to bottom including trim, glass, bumper covers, and rocker panels in 30 minutes? Or do you just clay the big painted surfaces?
  • Wax - 35 minutes to apply and remove wax on an entire car? Does that include trim, rocker panels, and bumper covers? How do you wax around letters like the "CLK 63" on the back of the car I used as an example?

I'm confident that I can pull between 1 and 1.5 hours off my time for that car after reading some of this material. But the only way I can imagine trimming more time than that is if I stop doing little extras like hitting the front and rear windows with clay, and cleaning the dirt out of edges like where a body trim meets body panels.

This is certainly an education. Thanks,

Bill
 
Would have taken me about the same time. A little more for the polishing, and a little less for the claying.

Wheels 10-15 minutes each is what it takes me depending how bad they are. Never seen a clean wheel so almost always that time frame ;)

Someone younger than me might be able to do it faster, but detailing takes time because we go over everything. I think you might improve a little with experience and practice but those times are reasonable.
 
waelwell said:
If you say that you can do all that in 2 hours, I can only believe you. A couple comments/questions are in order:
  • Wheels - can you really get brake dust off a wheel with just wheel acid and a pressure washer (PW)? Every time I've tried a PW on wheels it left a tiny film of dust that I had to use a brush or woolie to remove. I guess I'll have to try it again.
  • Clay - Can you really clay a car top to bottom including trim, glass, bumper covers, and rocker panels in 30 minutes? Or do you just clay the big painted surfaces?
  • Wax - 35 minutes to apply and remove wax on an entire car? Does that include trim, rocker panels, and bumper covers? How do you wax around letters like the "CLK 63" on the back of the car I used as an example?

I'm confident that I can pull between 1 and 1.5 hours off my time for that car after reading some of this material. But the only way I can imagine trimming more time than that is if I stop doing little extras like hitting the front and rear windows with clay, and cleaning the dirt out of edges like where a body trim meets body panels.

This is certainly an education. Thanks,

Bill
Click to expand...

For claying, the fastest way I have found is to use a clay alternative and do it while you wash. For exemple, I use Nanoskin Speed Prep Sponges. I use the fine one since they don't marr paint. So what I do is I let the sponge sit in my wash bucket while I wash the panel with my wash mitt. When I am done, I drop my wash mitt in the rinse bucket, rinse the panel and then immediately clay it with the sponge. Rinse the sponge, drop it back in the wash bucket. Rinse the panel and move to the next panel with the wash mitt. This will add about 10-20 minutes to your wash but you will have saved an entire separate step of claying.
 
Calendyr said:
For claying, the fastest way I have found is to use a clay alternative and do it while you wash. For exemple, I use Nanoskin Speed Prep Sponges. I use the fine one since they don't marr paint. So what I do is I let the sponge sit in my wash bucket while I wash the panel with my wash mitt. When I am done, I drop my wash mitt in the rinse bucket, rinse the panel and then immediately clay it with the sponge. Rinse the sponge, drop it back in the wash bucket. Rinse the panel and move to the next panel with the wash mitt. This will add about 10-20 minutes to your wash but you will have saved an entire separate step of claying.
Click to expand...

My Nanoskin stuff will be here in a couple days. I've been anxious to try it out. Thank you Calendyr, your posts have been helpful.

Bill
 
waelwell said:
If you say that you can do all that in 2 hours, I can only believe you. A couple comments/questions are in order:
  • Wheels - can you really get brake dust off a wheel with just wheel acid and a pressure washer (PW)? Every time I've tried a PW on wheels it left a tiny film of dust that I had to use a brush or woolie to remove. I guess I'll have to try it again.
  • Clay - Can you really clay a car top to bottom including trim, glass, bumper covers, and rocker panels in 30 minutes? Or do you just clay the big painted surfaces?
  • Wax - 35 minutes to apply and remove wax on an entire car? Does that include trim, rocker panels, and bumper covers? How do you wax around letters like the "CLK 63" on the back of the car I used as an example?

I'm confident that I can pull between 1 and 1.5 hours off my time for that car after reading some of this material. But the only way I can imagine trimming more time than that is if I stop doing little extras like hitting the front and rear windows with clay, and cleaning the dirt out of edges like where a body trim meets body panels.

This is certainly an education. Thanks,

Bill
Click to expand...
pw is a big plus.degrease tires and rockers then high pressure rinse all with a quality pump sprayer.Then do your rim cleaning soaking a mild acid into the barrels and on the face of the wheel,then rinse.Debug the whole front end then rinse.keep in mind there is no manual agitation pw just completed all that fairly quick.wash foam down and lather then rinse.refoam car using a nano mitt or nano clay disk rinse.steel wool glass then rinse.Towel dry car then hit it with a metro blower.Dress tires and wells and use the blower to blow any excess tire dressing caught in the grooves .Then apply your wax or sealant with a griot 3 inch polisher.I only do one side of the car at a time.remove with micro and detail the crevices as you move along with a detailing brush.repeat till exterior is fully done,using maybe 4 clean micros removing the wax,cause I'm mobile out in the sun.finally clean glass the prep was done during the wash so just spray and wipe.smooth out any remains of tire dressing and done.all your time saved is in the prep.clk is fairly a small car,these times will vary car to car.yesterday I did a 08 dts Cadillac moderately dirty for a 08 bumper to bumper and interior was 4 hrs.I used #66 with a tinch of fg 400 on a micro ,then topped with upp.All interior cleaned using ultima gel and carpets cleaned with folex scrubbed with the Ibrid .wood cleaned and polished and the trunk as well.you will gain speed over time.But keep in mind quality come first,if the car needs more attention don't worry about time and make it right,after all you want them to call you back and have them rave to their friends about a excellent job.
 
Personally think 5 hours is good timing for AIO service.

I used to take about 6 hours for AIO service on mid size sedan and with investment in PW and few other proper tools, but NANO skin, saves me tons of time now.
It kinda sucks how its black and you cant see containment you picked up, but I go by "feels" of clay gliding on paint and its been working great for me.

Larger size clay, I don't have to fold it frequently and etc adds up quickly.

anyways generally it will take much longer time the more detail you focus.

Do you have any pics you can share with us?
 
choijw2 said:
Personally think 5 hours is good timing for AIO service.

I used to take about 6 hours for AIO service on mid size sedan and with investment in PW and few other proper tools, but NANO skin, saves me tons of time now.
It kinda sucks how its black and you cant see containment you picked up, but I go by "feels" of clay gliding on paint and its been working great for me.

Larger size clay, I don't have to fold it frequently and etc adds up quickly.

anyways generally it will take much longer time the more detail you focus.

Do you have any pics you can share with us?
Click to expand...
with an investment with some ironx will speed up decon tremendously.If someone is just paying for a aio,I think your ocd is kicking in and trying to leave the paint defect free as much as possible.Which is called production detailing.6 hrs for a aio is a lot of time,and that is why a lot of detailers loose money.I find myself doing that from time to time,because I focus on quality.you can only expect so much out of a aio one step.Thats when you have to stop and remember there paying for production.
 
GSKR said:
with an investment with some ironx will speed up decon tremendously.If someone is just paying for a aio,I think your ocd is kicking in and trying to leave the paint defect free as much as possible.Which is called production detailing.6 hrs for a aio is a lot of time,and that is why a lot of detailers loose money.I find myself doing that from time to time,because I focus on quality.you can only expect so much out of a aio one step.Thats when you have to stop and remember there paying for production.
Click to expand...

It is pretty decent amount of time, but thats when I had no PW nor NANO SKIN.
Also investing in rupes 21es increased polishing time as well and now I can do pretty detailed work in 4 hours.
Im no full time professional detailer, but I been very selective with work one at a time. Mostly for car show prep for local people
and its been great with my OCD haha
 
Someone asked for a picture. Well, first I have to give a bunch of excuses. This was taken with my cell phone not my SLR, the lighting is far from good (note the blue tint on the side of the car), and I'm far from an expert at taking pics to show off detailing. I'll work it out eventually.

Anyway, here is the car I used as the example for this thread after I finished it.
View attachment 50570

Thanks a ton to everyone that provided their opinion. I'll be back in a few days with a version of the same question except for the interior.

Bill
 
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